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  1. #41
    Bloodsail Admiral Speedy92286's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roggles View Post
    I find those traits incredibly useless and want to slap whoever created them.
    Not particularly. I haven't tried WvW yet, but in both scenarios, when I would escape from a 3v1 attempt on my life, I would end up taking short cuts by jumping off of buildings. I never took the falling damage traits, but all of them seem to be good against people trying to chase you. I could have sworn there was a thief one where you put down a smoke cloud that blinds an enemy when you take falling damage. I could be wrong, though.

  2. #42
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy92286 View Post
    Not particularly. I haven't tried WvW yet, but in both scenarios, when I would escape from a 3v1 attempt on my life, I would end up taking short cuts by jumping off of buildings. I never took the falling damage traits, but all of them seem to be good against people trying to chase you. I could have sworn there was a thief one where you put down a smoke cloud that blinds an enemy when you take falling damage. I could be wrong, though.
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Descent_of_Shadows

    Blinding Powder causes both blind and stealth. Blind for 5 seconds, stealth for 3.
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  3. #43
    Pit Lord BoomChickn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bridger View Post
    How about every single time you sally from a keep? When one of our keeps was under attack we'd sneak in the other door, then we'd secretly group up at the top of the stairs, and as a group 50+ strong we'd all leap down onto our foe. Most of them were auto-attacking the door and not prepared to fight. It was a slaughter. I'd totally take some fall damage trait if it made this tactic even more awesome :P
    I can see it. Engie rush all with the grenade barrage on fall. Everyone drops down, a ton of dust flies, and all of the enemies are dead.

    If that isn't enough, everyone with a rifle jump shots in place.
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  4. #44
    Bloodsail Admiral Speedy92286's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Descent_of_Shadows

    Blinding Powder causes both blind and stealth. Blind for 5 seconds, stealth for 3.
    Yeah, that's the one. Can't tell you how many times that trait would have been useful in pvp for me. Especially on the clocktower map. Especially when people are hunting in packs and your team is all scattered and you need a quick getaway.

  5. #45
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    I took fall damage once in PvE and once in PvP. I really don't understand the decision behind these traits.
    Because they're really cool flavor traits, duh!

    I like the fall damage traits.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Because they're really cool flavor traits, duh!

    I like the fall damage traits.
    The problem is, they are traits. Situational at best and only in a specific trait line which some people may avoid according to their build and overall a waste of a major trait :/
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  7. #47
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    The problem is, they are traits. Situational at best and only in a specific trait line which some people may avoid according to their build and overall a waste of a major trait :/
    Guild Wars 2 combat is almost entirely situational.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Guild Wars 2 combat is almost entirely situational.
    Im aware of that but that wasn't entirely my point and was a poor choice of a word. I should say situational for the situational.
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  9. #49
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Im aware of that but that wasn't entirely my point and was a poor choice of a word. I should say situational for the situational.
    I feel like it gives you more of a choice than any talent tree I've seen in WoW, RIFT or TOR. I may not always take a "Fall Damage" trait, but it's one of those "fun" or "cool" things that add flavor to the game.

    Not everyone is going to try and pay this game optimally, so for those people, these "flavor" traits are awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
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  10. #50
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    Am I wrong in thinking that Fall Traits were to help you when an enemy fells* you into the Downed State? Would it be useful then? I know none of my builds so far include them because most seem centered around taking melee damage or someone sticking around to Finish you, but I never made the beta and didn't see.
    *to cause to fall when striking, cut or knockdown.

    Example: A fighter fell to a better opponent, if he was a traited necro he'd trigger Poison Cloud to help him get out of the Downed State.

    According to GW2 Wiki the Mesmers trait Decent into Madness does only a fraction of Chaos Storm damage, the rest of the downed skills don't seem to be affected like this. Guess I'll test it out next beta.
    Last edited by AmusingMoniker; 2012-05-03 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Clarity & Example

  11. #51
    Actually, I could see some tactical use out of these in WvW. Supposing as we get into server balance and the full 2 week games: If a team is scouting properly during a defense/offense, you may be able to scout people coming into some of the few canyon like areas/choke points where you could have high ground. If everyone gathers on the high ground for an ambush, and you have a number of melee with the falling traits with some ranged peeps for high ground support... I could see them being useful. Keep in mind that, so long as you are out of combat, you can change these traits in and out. SO really, use them for an ambush, and then moving for a counterattack you can change them to something else.

    In the battlegrounds such as Khylo, I dont think I saw any good places to use them, but the above still kind of applies since you can still change those traits in and out at whim in there as well. This of course may also depend on what other battlegrounds get implemented into the game. As for PvE; I see even less use for them there.

  12. #52
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blznsmri View Post
    Because they're really cool flavor traits, duh!

    I like the fall damage traits.
    I understand flavor. In general, I love it. The only reason I play Magic: The Gathering is because of the (excellent) flavor.
    But it's still bad design. The fall-damage-traits aren't just situational. They're terrible. They take up the place of something that could be better and they allow for the player to make genuinely bad choices. They're not as bad as the old WoW-talent trees, for a few reasons, but they're still quite terrible.

    If they want to keep those abilities, just give them passive to each profession. It would hardly change a thing.
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  13. #53
    Did you really think there were going to be 12 fully viable traits in every single trait line? That maybe could happen 6-8 months after release, with a *lot* of balancing, but I think even that is unlikely. All my experience from past games tells me that there will be 4-6 viable traits per line, if that. Now that still will provide a lot of variability, and it will be the balance team's job to try to make the other traits as viable as the top 3-4, so that number will probably go up over time, but I doubt it would ever be 12 per line.

    We're talking 480 unique traits in the game. Some of them have to be "for fun," because there just aren't that many combinations of viable mechanics. I don't mind the fall damage traits at all. I could even see them being useful in SPvP for defending the clocktower in Battle of Khylo. If they do a decent bit of damage or CC, it might be worth sacrificing a bit of health to trigger the effect. If it isn't worth it, you buff the trait's power until it is worth sacrificing the health.

    Assaulting off a wall in WvW is another place that those could be very useful in, but as others have said, there's almost always going to be a trait which you will get more mileage out of. The only one I can think of that would always be useful was the clocktower example.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 12:03 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    I understand flavor. In general, I love it. The only reason I play Magic: The Gathering is because of the (excellent) flavor.
    But it's still bad design. The fall-damage-traits aren't just situational. They're terrible. They take up the place of something that could be better and they allow for the player to make genuinely bad choices.
    As I pointed out, they aren't taking the place of something better because there isn't anything better. How many combinations of Buffs, CC, Damage, and Damage Over Time can you possibly make? Not 480. You've got to fill that up with something, and this was one of their choices.

    Now it would be a different thing entirely if there were only 6 traits per line, then I'd be upset about "losing" one to a super-conditional trait, but 1 out of 12? Who cares?
    Last edited by Bridger; 2012-05-03 at 04:04 PM.

  14. #54
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    If you're right, and there will only be 4 to 6 viable traits per line, all the rest is rubbish and shouldn't be included. If you allow players to make strictly inferior option, while presenting them as equal, that's bad design. If you can't think up more viable (or good) traits, stop thinking them up until you can. Each line has 12 traits. If half of them are bad, just remove them. Sure, you lose a (very small) bit of flavor (and fall-damage traits are hardly flavor), but the design is better, you're game is more streamlined.

    As for losing out on a better trait: The Guardian (I can only speak for a Guardian) has 1 fall-damage-trait in the Zeal-line. That means that they only have 11 traits to choose from, instead of the 12 that other lines have. This might not be so bad, but if you're not using Spirit Weapons (perfectly reasonable) you lose another 4 traits, leaving you with 7. If you're not using a Scepter (not optimal with this trait-line currently), you use another 1, ending up with 6 traits. (Losing another one if you don't use a Focus, which, again, is a perfectly fine build.) So you now have only 5 or 6 traits, where you could have one more, but that space is taking up by a (rather useless) falling trait.

    And I know it's not that big of an issue, so I don't want to put too much effort in discussing it, but it's inelegant design.
    Oh, and I'm pretty certain that Arenanet has enough talent to come up with 480 traits.
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  15. #55
    The Patient Emberhelm's Avatar
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    I didn't die from fall damage at all, but I would take damage from short drops that made me kinda disappointed. Meaning, I would jump from a small cliff, and take like 10% fall damage, which only leads me to believe it doesn't take a too high a drop to kill you.

  16. #56
    Scarab Lord Blznsmri's Avatar
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    You guys are really taking this way too seriously...

    They're there for fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by SW:TOR
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  17. #57

  18. #58
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dillingr View Post
    They're pretty retarded.
    They're not forcing you to use them.

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  19. #59
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodhunter View Post
    They're not forcing you to use them.
    Doesn't mean they're not bloody stupid.
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  20. #60
    Fluffy Kitten Bloodhunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ynna View Post
    Doesn't mean they're not bloody stupid.
    Never said they weren't, although that's opinion-wise.

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