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  1. #61
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    I'm going to be scared of my own class if that isn't going to be nerfed.

  2. #62
    I don't see how is this much more game-changing than for example making Preparation and Shadowstep exclusive or limiting Sanguinary Vein to your own Garrote and Rupture. Or introducing double Smoke Bomb in 4.0. It's new expansion and they are doing crazy stuff with our talent trees, let's deal with it. Some of them will get adjusted, some of them won't. If Blizzards decides to give us a long stun in return for all those nerfs and balances numbers around it, why not?

    As for the 8 second "cap" - Combat rogues are already bypassing it. If there is one exception, there can be another one. We are rogues, after all - THE class that is build around various tricks and special features.

    I remember very clearly when I've read patch notes about changing Blade Flurry from cooldown to passive ability. I was thinking "What the hell? There is no way we are getting passive cleave ability with almost no cost." And yet we did.

  3. #63
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fae View Post
    I don't see how is this much more game-changing than for example making Preparation and Shadowstep exclusive or limiting Sanguinary Vein to your own Garrote and Rupture. Or introducing double Smoke Bomb in 4.0. It's new expansion and they are doing crazy stuff with our talent trees, let's deal with it. Some of them will get adjusted, some of them won't. If Blizzards decides to give us a long stun in return for all those nerfs and balances numbers around it, why not?

    As for the 8 second "cap" - Combat rogues are already bypassing it. If there is one exception, there can be another one. We are rogues, after all - THE class that is build around various tricks and special features.

    I remember very clearly when I've read patch notes about changing Blade Flurry from cooldown to passive ability. I was thinking "What the hell? There is no way we are getting passive cleave ability with almost no cost." And yet we did.
    Yeah but blade flurry isn't exactly game breaking, a 9 second stun is absolutely gamebreaking.

  4. #64
    So rogue will be able to use shadow dance and cheap shot world with 9 second stuns?

    No thanks for this game....

  5. #65
    A glyph that increases a skill by 125% without any negative? This is obviously not final.

    This is a datamining error, or something temporary. I'd be willing to bet the glyph is actually .5 seconds, not 5 second. 4.5 seconds is a nice number, as you get an extra global before they break the stun.

  6. #66
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slonato View Post
    A glyph that increases a skill by 125% without any negative? This is obviously not final.

    This is a datamining error, or something temporary. I'd be willing to bet the glyph is actually .5 seconds, not 5 second. 4.5 seconds is a nice number, as you get an extra global before they break the stun.
    Oh no It's 9 seconds right now, It's no error on the dataminer. It's straight 9 seconds haha and I just made someone cry and rage at me at the beta.

    I'll agree it may be temporary haha
    Last edited by I change my name a lot; 2012-05-02 at 01:27 PM.

  7. #67
    I don't see how is this much more game-changing than for example making Preparation and Shadowstep exclusive or limiting Sanguinary Vein to your own Garrote and Rupture. Or introducing double Smoke Bomb in 4.0. It's new expansion and they are doing crazy stuff with our talent trees, let's deal with it. Some of them will get adjusted, some of them won't. If Blizzards decides to give us a long stun in return for all those nerfs and balances numbers around it, why not?
    I will give you a big why not, 9 second incapacitating move that does not break on damage.
    That being said its either a glyph meant to have one value for PvP and one for PvE, datamining error or will get nerfed.
    I dont see even the slightest chanse it will go live if this is the correct glyph, so Im not worried.

    We are rogues, after all - THE class that is build around various tricks and special features.
    Seems you are fine with classes being blatently OP as long as it is your own class.
    You seem like a "skillful" player
    Last edited by Bakis; 2012-05-02 at 01:55 PM.

  8. #68
    As I said before, I think that this would be very hard to balance in pvp, and would invite Blizzard to make a bunch of dumb stuff that breaks stuns. That being said, cheap shot COULD use a longer than four second duration. Nine just seems shocking.

    I don't see how is this much more game-changing than for example making Preparation and Shadowstep exclusive or limiting Sanguinary Vein to your own Garrote and Rupture. Or introducing double Smoke Bomb in 4.0.
    The prep-shadowstep thing, while terrible, DOES just affect rogues. In general, when Blizzard nerfs a class or a spec, they only hurt those players. The Sang.V. change is also a massive crippling nerf in pvp, but again, all that does is screw over rogues. The existence of smokebomb in 4.0.whatever (and allowing two of them) is a correct analogy- and Blizzard's stated goals were to make rogues more viable in large scale pvp, by giving them a cooldown that isn't like "do X to the guy you have targetted". It was deliberate.

    Is this? I have a hard time seeing cheap shot being more than doubled without some explanation from the devs, tbh. It honestly looks like a code error to me, and they meant it to be something insignificant like +0.5 seconds instead of +5 seconds- as I stated earlier, the -20 energy version is actually really strong, so I suspect they were trying to nerf it?

    But, maybe not. Maybe the idea is that rogue stuns should be substantially different and better than stuns from other classes, as it is supposed to be one of the marks of the rogue. Even if that was the case, I would expect something totally different than this though, like cheap shot back on its own DR.

    EDIT: I just tested it. Sure enough, a 9 second cheap shot is absolutely there, though it may only be 8 on players (hard to tell). While not unprecedented, it is VERY powerful.
    And the sanguV change sure enough sucks :P
    Last edited by Verain; 2012-05-02 at 02:09 PM.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    I will give you a big why not, 9 second incapacitating move that does not break on damage.
    RvS Kidney says hello? The cost of 5 combo point can be quite easily compared to stealth requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Seems you are fine with classes being blatently OP as long as it is your own class.
    You seem like a "skillful" player
    Cheap insults, really? And besides, my skill is not really important when discussing basic principes of Blizzard development.


    In general:
    I just wanted to point out that Blizzard has done some pretty crazy changes in the past and balanced around them later. We should not be so short minded and immediately jump on conclusions like "must be a datamining error" or "clearly a bug". We don't know whats their plan.
    Last edited by Fae; 2012-05-02 at 02:52 PM.

  10. #70
    Ok fair enough but stuns are already in the hotzone, well they've always been, cos they dont break on damage.
    Such a long stun is simply gamebreaking and not promoting any kinda of skillful play.
    BLZ at least seemed to want to take a step back from Cata PvP, ie. blow cooldowns and burst ppl down along with nerfed selfhealing, this glyph make no sesne at all unless its a dual value PvE/PvP.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Fae View Post
    RvS Kidney says hello? The cost of 5 combo point can be quite easily compared to stealth requirement.
    Look man, I've run around as combat pvp and done the long stun. I'm assuming you have too. But the REAL requirement of the long stun is accepting the several weaknesses combat has:
    1- No viable gap closer.
    2- No armor penetration (only dps spec in the game without one)
    3- No survivability
    4- No burst
    5- You thought Bandit's Guile was annoying in pve?

    Most players on live don't deal with long stun, and when they do, it is part of fighting a combat rogue, and it is the big thing a combat rogue has going for them.

    Additionally... look at the other glyphs. If they WANTED a nine second cheap shot, cheap shot would be like 7 and you'd glyph it for +2 seconds.



    I just wanted to point out that Blizzard has done some pretty crazy changes in the past and balanced around them later. We should not be so short minded and immediately jump on conclusions like "must be a datamining error" or "clearly a bug". We don't know whats their plan.
    No, we don't. But my money is on bug. This is because of the synergy this stun will have with literally all other specs and classes. That combined with the tears we normally see related to controls. I'd like a longer CS, I really would, but my guess at THIS point is that the glyph is meant to add 0.5 seconds to the stun, or MAKE the stun 5 seconds.

  12. #72
    Combat PVP has to to set up a five point RS + KS stun, while this is...over the top lol. Seriously, Cheap shot becomes an amazing peeling ability (even if they nerf this glyph a few seconds). Why waste CP on a five point KS when you can use CS, especially for Shadow dance sub Rogues?

  13. #73
    i have been playing in the beta and yes 9 seconds opener with cheap shot. Blizz will nerf this for sure.

    cheapshot + 5pt kidney shot = 13 sec stunlock = LOL

  14. #74
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    It's gotta be a typo. CS isn't going to last 9 seconds no way.

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  15. #75
    Maybe they will delete kidney shot? (I hope not)
    I loved Stun Locking in TBC/WotLK and I love this glyph, really.
    It's OP, of course, maybe they'll make it 5-6 sec and I'll still be happy.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bitlovin View Post
    I knew this would get a lot of QQ as soon as I saw it.
    its not alot of QQ at all, you obviously play a rogue and are looking forward to killing anything you see in ur opener, which is insanely OP.

  17. #77
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRelic View Post
    i have been playing in the beta and yes 9 seconds opener with cheap shot. Blizz will nerf this for sure.

    cheapshot + 5pt kidney shot = 13 sec stunlock = LOL
    Well that's not right obviously, It's subbed into a Diminishing returns. Unless well the DR isn't there atm which well is obviously beta

  18. #78
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Oh and to all those rogues trying to even justify this sort of stuff.. you don't know what you talk about. Please keep PvEing but don't get involved into stuff you have no idea about.

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  19. #79
    as i say, ive been playing in beta and cheapshot+kidneyshot= 13 sec stunlock

  20. #80
    The Unstoppable Force I change my name a lot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRelic View Post
    as i say, ive been playing in beta and cheapshot+kidneyshot= 13 sec stunlock
    eh I'll login in a bit to try it, Obviously that's a bug in terms of the DR not happening

    Both KS and CS are on the same DR and has been since Cata.

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