Have 3 questions regarding DKP systems in WoW.

[Stonepony]

Hello all,

Have a few questions regarding DKP systems used by your guild. Just wanted to get some thoughts on it.

1. What type of DKP system does your guild use?

2. Are you happy with it?

3. In your opinion, which DKP system causes the least amount of loot drama between members?

Thanks for the replies.

[Cistara]

1. What type of DKP system does your guild use?

2. Are you happy with it?

3. In your opinion, which DKP system causes the least amount of loot drama between members?

1. Silent bid DKP.
2. No
3. Loot Council.

[chazus]

1) EPGP
2) Yes
3) All forms of loot cause loot drama. Suicide Kings or EPGP seem to work well for my raids though. Loot council is quick for drama imo because people's opinions differ. Leave it to numbers or random.

[microtonal]

Hello all,

Have a few questions regarding DKP systems used by your guild. Just wanted to get some thoughts on it.

1. What type of DKP system does your guild use?

2. Are you happy with it?

3. In your opinion, which DKP system causes the least amount of loot drama between members?

Thanks for the replies.

1. Silent bid DKP.
2. Define "happy". Be specific.
3. Kicking the sociopaths, loot whores, drama queens, and pathological narcissists before the raid.

No loot distribution system is better than the people running it. If your lootmaster is a twat, your loot distribution system will be run by a twat, no matter what system you're using.

[Ruffles]

1. Loot Council
2. Yes
3. Loot Council

Loot Council is not a DKP system, I know!

[gamegirl]

This really depends upon your guild. Some guilds do great with a need roll system and others require a very complicated system to ensure "fairness". EPGP seems to work well for guilds that have a lot of loot controversy but my favorite system was a DKP system that had 2 membership tiers with a bid limit on the 1st tier.

[Joodoc]

Honestly, the best system would be one that docks you points if you pass up upgrades, and the amount of points docked is relative to the upgrade

Cause there are people that whore points until the specific item they wants drops, they get it guarantee, but have been missing out on upgrades that could be benefiting the group. Now for something like that to work, you would need a group of people who knows all classes and specs, so they could tell what is an upgrade, and what is a significant upgrade.

[vaeevictiss]

The first guild i was in used loot council and i don't get how people think it doesnt cause drama. I was even an officer so i got way too many tells from members expressing how they thought it was bias. Ive used just about every system out there now, and loot council is not at the top of the list. Even if you are not being bias, even the image of being bias is enough for people to think you are.

The guild im in uses a percentage based DKP system based on the type of loot that drops. Sure the people that save up loose a lot more than a newer member, but it has worked well for us for a couple years now.

IMO the best and most drama free would be Zero Sum. But you need to be a seriously dedicated guild that has the same players on every single raid for that to work how it is supposed to. I would personally love to use this system, but we are just a bit too casual for it and always have a few diff players from one week to the next.

[Spotnick]

When I was raid leading 25 man we used EPGP, with the addon EPGP Lootmaster and it was quite fine to work with. It had issues due to people passing on upgrades, even with the decay though, so we had to almost give away off-set pieces and make tier tokens much more pricy.

But I can't tell enough how much I enjoy using normal green/need in 10 man raids right now... and people civilized enough to trade to spread the loot.

[Kurzior]

Was in a guild a while back that used an EPGP system. The 2 things to note about the system they used though.

1 - It encourages players to hoard points for that one BiS item. I'm not saying its a good or a bad thing, but it can lead to players passing on potential upgrades 'now' for a chance at something better on the next boss.
2 - It awards points for both attendance and boss kills, so it doesn't punish players who are present but put on the bench.

The guild I'm in now (as raid leader) simply uses the roll system. If the item is an upgrade, you roll, and preference is given to players rolling for their primary spec. It works well for us because we have all raided together for the better part of 2 years and know and trust each other.

It really comes down to what type of guild you are running. It has little to do with what your progression is like, how many nights a week you raid, or how quickly you down content. A guild of players who have been together a long time will probably be better off with a less structured system like Loot Council or even just a random roll system. This is because the members feel that even if an upgrade goes to someone else, it will still help the group.

If a guild is larger with fewer personal relationships involved, a more formal system such as DKP or suicide kings may be better, since players can easily see that loot is being distributed fairly, since it's based on an objective system.

All loot systems have pros and cons. Its just a matter of picking one that works for your guild.

[underdogba]

The first guild i was in used loot council and i don't get how people think it doesnt cause drama. I was even an officer so i got way too many tells from members expressing how they thought it was bias. Ive used just about every system out there now, and loot council is not at the top of the list. Even if you are not being bias, even the image of being bias is enough for people to think you are.

Loot council only works if the following two conditions are true -

(1) The people deciding on awarding loot are massively educated as to which recipient gets the most performance upgrade out of the item; and

(2) The guild in question is so prestigious in progression on the server that people are willing to tolerate not getting things in exchange for how impressive the guild is, or if anyone complains, replacing them is a non-issue because good players are lining up to be recruited.

If both of the above are not true, don't even think about doing loot council, because it will be the biggest disaster you have ever experienced with a loot system. If your guild is not totally awesome, no matter how hard the council tries to be objective, people will always perceive their decisions as nepotism.

---------- Post added 2012-05-16 at 03:58 PM ----------

3. In your opinion, which DKP system causes the least amount of loot drama between members?

GDKP.

Even if you lose you get gold, which you can then use to bid on items later.

It's the only perfectly fair system possible, because the points earned is real ingame gold which is universally and objectively valuable, and not the product of promises between players that may not be held.

[robo99]

1. Main Guild 25m Raid - Silent Bid DKP, Alt Guild 10m Raid - Suicide Kings

2. Yes, Yes

3. I think for 25m raid groups some form of dkp is a must. It's transparent and rewards attendance, punctuality, performance, etc. However, in a smaller 10m setting I find that Suicide Kings works out well. It spreads loot out nicely and is an easy system to manage. I've used loot council before and it can work, it just needs unbiased council members. I have found that loot council only really works out in top end progression guilds, because those raiders understand the need to gear up certain players first in order to down bosses.

[JohnnyQuest]

1. None. You need it for MS? You Need. You need it for OS? You Greed.
2. Yes very.
3. Not using any points system.

This system relies on your guild being made of people that are, well, people. Not whiny, entitled shits.

[Deleted]

GM/RL of a 10man guild. We have tried "normal" dkp (fixed price), loot council, suicide kings and EPGP.

1. EPGP
2. Yes, works brilliantly
3. I don't think any particular loot system can stop drama but in our experience, loot council caused more drama and time wasting than it was worth. EPGP has not had any issues and we've run it most of the expansion.

[Firebert]

We don't use a DKP system. We just roll on stuff much like PuG.
I'm happy with it.
I'd rather have Suicide Kings, though.

[Aurora]

1. Shroud looting DKP (fixed price bidding of 50% or 10 dkp)

2. Yes

3. Any loot system can be abused if people are so willing, I'd be less inclined to blame the system and more its management and the people using it if loot drama is occurring.

[Wilderness]

Loot council only works if the following two conditions are true -

(1) The people deciding on awarding loot are massively educated as to which recipient gets the most performance upgrade out of the item; and

(2) The guild in question is so prestigious in progression on the server that people are willing to tolerate not getting things in exchange for how impressive the guild is, or if anyone complains, replacing them is a non-issue because good players are lining up to be recruited.

If both of the above are not true, don't even think about doing loot council, because it will be the biggest disaster you have ever experienced with a loot system. If your guild is not totally awesome, no matter how hard the council tries to be objective, people will always perceive their decisions as nepotism.

I disagree. I was in a 25 man guild for a year and a half in WotLK that used loot council successfully and without drama for that entire time. Sure, a few people came in and whined about loot and ended up not lasting in the guild, but we had a pretty solid core of people throughout that time and it all worked out.

One thing that we did in that situation was run EPGP as well though. In the end it was the loot council's decision, but using EPGP allowed them to more easily track who got what and when they got it. Generally in cases of large EPGP discrepancies it went to the person with the highest one, and in closer cases it was more up to the loot council.

But I do agree that Loot Council as a whole can very easily be abused and taken advantage of. I believe its by far the best system for a raid to use if run correctly and without favoritism but it is probably more likely that a LC will not be fair than it will based on my experience with human nature in WoW.

[MrExcelion]

We used a modified zero-sum DKP system where the last 5 weeks of attendance and items bought matter. It minimizes hoarding. Works well for 25m because we have a 35 man roster, and we know when we're up for loot, so people are willing to sit. 25ms already take long enough with all the rotating we do in between bosses, so it's nice to streamline loot. If I was in a 10man, I don't think the system would be necessary, and a simple loot council would work out. Usually just 2 or 3 people max sharing your loot and a couple items per boss, so it's just a matter of talking it out briefly, or even /rolling it.

[Pull My Finger]

/roll

1st spec need, 2nd spec greed. Add a little common sense and fairness and that's all you need.

[blargh312]

1 - It encourages players to hoard points for that one BiS item. I'm not saying its a good or a bad thing, but it can lead to players passing on potential upgrades 'now' for a chance at something better on the next boss.

The simple solution is to not allow people to pass on an upgrade. If it's better than what you're using and you have the highest PR of all the people who need it, you get the piece.