Do you think we will get hellfire and shadow flame back?

[Imnick]

It's true, I doubt orcs ever brushed their teeth

[Valyna]

I'm not on beta, but I can't find breath of gul'dan anywhere in the WoWhead talent calculator's list of spells (neither on demo spells, nor on class spells)...

Well, i´m on beta...
The talentcalculator is NOT up to date

[Inactivity]

Just remove Touch of Chaos and have Demonic Slash or whatever else they give us to use in Meta automatically refresh/add 6s to the duration of Corruption.

Or even (as I suggested elsewhere) have those attacks put stacks of Shadow Embrace on the target and let us cast Corruption and HoG as normal. Meta then need only buff direct damage attacks, with SE adding the additional DoT damage.

Then there's the problem that since most of meta is instant-cast, you still gain (albeit very small amounts of DPS) by being in melee so you can auto-attack, and furthermore by being behind the boss. Even if the auto-attack (as in live) only does around 500 DPS, it's still a 500DPS gain.

Hence the auto-attack should just be replaced with a spell-based auto-attack (similar to Auto Wand) with the same swing timer concept, available for all caster weapons, not just wands - and like Auto Shot for hunters not using expertise, it works off of spell hit, not melee hit/expertise.

This could easily be addressed by having leaving Meta drain Fury, or having leaving Meta incur a cd on re-entering Meta. Or something. And re-tune Demonic Slash to compensate for having your dots fall off. Maybe instead of having ToC refresh Corruption, give it a chance to proc MC.

Just, I'm not sure what they're wanting -- but I have a hard time imagining they're actively shooting to have us stance dance.

They didn't "actively shoot" for us to have to be in melee, or snapshot Mastery, or use ISF in affliction, or be shitty, but that's what happened. Any "fun" double priority queue is really just a shitton of stupidity, complexity, and above all, clunkyness.

For instance, your patchwork fix has another consequence - you need to have Corruption at its highest duration before entering Meta now, on top of not capping Demonic Fury.

[thrill]

RoF turning into immolation aura in meta is pretty awkward, since you suddenly have no ranged AoE as a ranged class, outside of the harvest life talent. Demo spec in general looks pretty screwed up at the moment well, as dps anyway. DA is in a good place outside avoidance scaling, number balancing, and maybe a self healing attack.

[Kaizers]

I doubt we'll get them back. Tbh I don't mind them being gone.

[Count Zero]

They didn't "actively shoot" for us to have to be in melee, or snapshot Mastery, or use ISF in affliction, or be shitty, but that's what happened. Any "fun" double priority queue is really just a shitton of stupidity, complexity, and above all, clunkyness.

For instance, your patchwork fix has another consequence - you need to have Corruption at its highest duration before entering Meta now, on top of not capping Demonic Fury.

Fair points, but they are reducing the number of available spells/abilities to minimize instances of things such as Afflic/Demo using ISF, and AffDrain. Melee range they did not actively shoot for, I don't think, but they wound up balancing us around it (even tho some folks are simply uncomfortable with being balanced around actual performance rather than theoretical performance, for reasons beyond my comprehension).

And folks were already going to refresh Corruption before popping Meta, to maximize how long they could stay in before having to drop to refresh and then pop back in.

I don't see how having a very simple secondary priority queue while in Meta is particularly clunky or complex, or at least not more so than other specs. My proposal would be Demonic Slash until MC procs, then SF, rinse and repeat until Fury is out. Meta during execute would be SF spam until Fury is out.

I actually think it might even make our overall rotation / priority queue too simple, even.

[Inactivity]

And folks were already going to refresh Corruption before popping Meta, to maximize how long they could stay in before having to drop to refresh and then pop back in.

...

I actually think it might even make our overall rotation / priority queue too simple, even.

1) In the status quo you don't need to since Touch of Chaos will refresh in Meta. Otherwise you would burn a global to do what might be a wasteful refresh, and you might cap on fury as well which is a DPS loss - or you might go into Meta with too little fury as a result.

2) It sounds sort of simple, but it really isn't since there will always be tricks to increase/decrease DPS. Plus, we are not boomkins.

[Count Zero]

Ahh, I'd forgotten about Touch of Chaos

[ComputerNerd]

Talent calculators might be slow to update.
I would rely instead on what you find in-game, or not.

[Count Zero]

I'd known about it, just it slipped my mind. A lot of the "discussion" in these threads lately haven't really had much substance in them, and now with most folks having beta access, a lot of the truly-informative posts aren't really as necessary.

[Jessicka]

I'd known about it, just it slipped my mind. A lot of the "discussion" in these threads lately haven't really had much substance in them, and now with most folks having beta access, a lot of the truly-informative posts aren't really as necessary.

A lot of discussion is also based on speculation gleened from information in blue posts that hasn't yet manifested on Beta itself, or based on logical extrapolations of the seemingly obvious. For example I don't think for a second Demonic Slash is going to remain instant cast with a 40 yard range; the PvP implications are obvious in terms of allowing 100% DPS with 150% mobility when combined with Burning Rush.

[ComputerNerd]

Due to the real lack of constructive feedback from blizzard then speculate is all we can do.
They are almost putting more communication into the spell tooltips than they are anything else.
The Dev Notes and the text changes on the Codex are very telling.

[Bridius]

I doubt either of them will come back. Rain of Fire in caster form is better than Hellfire anyway because Meta isn't dependent on melee range anymore. Demonic Leap, Immolation Aura and Carrion Swarm are all situational spells.

RIP Shadowflame

[David Cavalheiro]

RIP Shadowflame

>: Would be nice they didn't remove it but instead give a 40 yards. Would not have to be on melee to use Shadowflame though.

I do not understand why they removed Hellfire, was such a cool AOE spell, jumping and walking around while doing damage at the same time.

They wanna simplify the spec but this it's too much.

[Canoftuna]

Even though I love Hellfire, I fully support any decisions that get me out of melee.

[ComputerNerd]

>: Would be nice they didn't remove it but instead give a 40 yards. Would not have to be on melee to use Shadowflame though.

I do not understand why they removed Hellfire, was such a cool AOE spell, jumping and walking around while doing damage at the same time.

They wanna simplify the spec but this it's too much.

Nothing to do with simplification, but the fact that a ranged dps spec was forced into melee range.
Hellfire should have been area targeted somehow, perhaps as an aura from a friendly target as has been suggested previously.
That way it could be placed on a melee, so granting the benefit of the damage, but without the need to force the warlock into a position they should not be generally.

[deviantcultist]

I don't mind if it is hellfire or any other spell, I just hate having demo and destro aoeing the same way.

[IdTheDemon]

They lowered the cost of Immolation Aura (Which is Hellfire now basically) to 250 Demonic Energy which is nice.

I like the new Shadowflame. Instead of us having to rush to being in front of pack of mobs to Shadowflame them, we can just drop Guldan which shadowflames everyone in a 6 yard range instead of just being a cone effect. There could be a glyph to switch to graphic back to the purple flames when Guldan drops.

[slickstick55]

Never Hellfire is such a useless spell, I remember during vanilla and BC when it was fun to use =D