Should a new variation of Cleansing Totem be brought back?

[iadamson]

Totems are now on short duration and some with a cooldown. (Totem change in MoP)

I know some of the reason to support the removal by blizzard was, they wanted dispels to be more methodical and mean something when you did them.

However,

Monks have this ability, which bares similarity
http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=115310

To a lesser extent Priest have this
http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=32375

Does a cleansing totem on a 3 or 5 minute cool down that removes negative effects from x amount party/ raid members, that far out of reality or beyond the realm of possibility?

Is there some justification to bring it back?


People often ask me, if it be in trade chat or guild chat. Is such a thing even possible? ...and I say yes, yes it is.

[metaknightt91]

I would support this. Cleansing Totem was one of my favorite Shaman abilities back in the day, I would love to see it come back in one form or another (and with its old icon!)

Side note: I miss when we could dispel poisons and diseases instead of magic and curses. Even though Cata was big on magic debuffs.

[underdogba]

This is reasonable idea, although ideally I would prefer that they just removed the dispel mechanic entirely.

[Undefetter]

Totems are now on short duration and some with a cooldown. (Totem change in MoP)

I know some of the reason to support the removal by blizzard was, they wanted dispels to be more methodical and mean something when you did them.

However,

Monks have this ability, which bares similarity
http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=115310

To a lesser extent Priest have this
http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=32375

Does a cleansing totem on a 3 or 5 minute cool down that removes negative effects from x amount party/ raid members, that far out of reality or beyond the realm of possibility?

Is there some justification to bring it back?


People often ask me, if it be in trade chat or guild chat. Is such a thing even possible? ...and I say yes, yes it is.

I personally feel we have enough defensive cooldowns as it is. However, I do miss the old Cleansing Totem in all its overpowered glory. Rogues eat my dust!

[Endus]

The biggest issue with this isn't the idea of purging off a bunch of stuff, it's that healers are designed around three types of "dispels" currently. All healers get defensive magic dispels, and then two others that are class specific. Priests, for instance, get offensive magic (dispelling Magic effects off enemies) and diseases, Paladins get diseases and poisons, etc. Shaman, we get offensive magic and curses. The addition of Curses was because they needed an additional class to handle it, and Shaman are one of two classes that actually make use of curse-type abilities (Hex), the other being Warlocks who aren't healers and thus aren't part of this design. Our cleansing was "too strong", basically, covering too many bases, and bringing Disease/Poison back in would bring that back.

I wouldn't be opposed to something along those lines focusing on one of our three extant Dispel categories, but I don't think adding Disease/Poison cleansing back in would be a good change, looking at the game as a whole.

[Omanley]

Though it was much stronger against death knights than rogues . Rogues would just reapply poisons, while death knights would be /wristslit threatened because they would lose their diseases constantly, and with that lots of damage.

I could see it as a high cooldown short duration aoe defensive dispell ability, yeah.

[iadamson]

I would support this. Cleansing Totem was one of my favorite Shaman abilities back in the day, I would love to see it come back in one form or another (and with its old icon!)

Side note: I miss when we could dispel poisons and diseases instead of magic and curses. Even though Cata was big on magic debuffs.

I miss the poisons and diseases removal too. Wrath was a great era for Shaman dispel mechanics. Along with the cleansing waters talent that added a heal to your cleanse.

This is reasonable idea, although ideally I would prefer that they just removed the dispel mechanic entirely.

Totally understand the idea of removing it. It would simplify game play in pve for a healer. Although the pvp may have a beef with that idea. However it would be easy to separate the two if it came down to it.

The biggest issue with this isn't the idea of purging off a bunch of stuff, it's that healers are designed around three types of "dispels" currently. All healers get defensive magic dispels, and then two others that are class specific. Priests, for instance, get offensive magic (dispelling Magic effects off enemies) and diseases, Paladins get diseases and poisons, etc. Shaman, we get offensive magic and curses. The addition of Curses was because they needed an additional class to handle it, and Shaman are one of two classes that actually make use of curse-type abilities (Hex), the other being Warlocks who aren't healers and thus aren't part of this design. Our cleansing was "too strong", basically, covering too many bases, and bringing Disease/Poison back in would bring that back.

I wouldn't be opposed to something along those lines focusing on one of our three extant Dispel categories, but I don't think adding Disease/Poison cleansing back in would be a good change, looking at the game as a whole.

Agreed, I wasn't thinking adding disease/ poison back, but rather the magic/ curse to cleansing totem instead.

Though it was much stronger against death knights than rogues . Rogues would just reapply poisons, while death knights would be /wristslit threatened because they would lose their diseases constantly, and with that lots of damage.

I could see it as a high cooldown short duration aoe defensive dispell ability, yeah.

My thoughts exactly. (in bold)

I personally feel we have enough defensive cooldowns as it is. However, I do miss the old Cleansing Totem in all its overpowered glory. Rogues eat my dust!

Yeah, we do have a significant amount of DCD's, which is something to consider when looking at the idea of its return. However I view it as simply another tool PvE healers could utilize, i'll site the phrase "Bring the player not the class" offering a mass cleanse as the monks currently have would even the playing field. (In some respect)

Also its pvp implications are something else to consider, another valid point. I suppose there is validility to not bringing it back as well.

Good points on the other side of the spectrum.

I miss it too, nostalgia.

I disagree with this. I think that dispelling, while sometimes it is used arbitrarily, can really add interesting extra dimensions to healing. Two of my favorite raid encounters had very important dispel mechanics. Heroic Professor Putricide, which had the healers juggling a disease around very carefully, and Lich King, especially when you were going for the [Been Waiting A Long Time For This] Achievement, which was really fun and tricky for dispelling. I think that on the contrary to removing dispelling, they should make it more prevalent again (I'm told Sinestra has a big dispelling element as well, though I've never done that fight).

Also, looking at PvP is a whole different story, dispelling is a huge part of that as well.

Oh true say, it would make pve healing pretty one dimensional. I suppose cleansing is also apart of healing/ recovery. Yeah we stuff definitively keep the mechanic. (Although I understand peoples reasoning for wanting it removed.)

[metaknightt91]

This is reasonable idea, although ideally I would prefer that they just removed the dispel mechanic entirely.

I disagree with this. I think that dispelling, while sometimes it is used arbitrarily, can really add interesting extra dimensions to healing. Two of my favorite raid encounters had very important dispel mechanics. Heroic Professor Putricide, which had the healers juggling a disease around very carefully, and Lich King, especially when you were going for the [Been Waiting A Long Time For This] Achievement, which was really fun and tricky for dispelling. I think that on the contrary to removing dispelling, they should make it more prevalent again (I'm told Sinestra has a big dispelling element as well, though I've never done that fight).

Also, looking at PvP is a whole different story, dispelling is a huge part of that as well.

[Blitond]

I personally feel we have enough defensive cooldowns as it is. However, I do miss the old Cleansing Totem in all its overpowered glory. Rogues eat my dust!

What defensive cooldowns does elemental have? Stoneclaw totem? Glyphed EM? Elemental has been hurting in this area since they removed astral shift back in WotlK.

[Endus]

What defensive cooldowns does elemental have? Stoneclaw totem? Glyphed EM? Elemental has been hurting in this area since they removed astral shift back in WotlK.

Astral Shift/Stone Bulwark Totem/Nature's Guardian
Primal Elementalist - Earth/Unleashed Fury - Rockbiter
Ancestral Guidance, in the sense that it can self-heal at least.


We're not talking about live servers, we're talking about MoP. Where we've got plenty of defensive tools.

[Blitond]

Astral Shift/Stone Bulwark Totem/Nature's Guardian

Astral Shift is great, but that alone won't bring us up to par with other classes defensive cd's.

Bulwark Totem is going to get 1 shot by any smart dps or healer. At least stoneclaw had a stun, deterring people from killing it.

Primal Elementalist - Earth/Unleashed Fury - Rockbiter

Great another cooldown totem that will get 1-2 shot!

Unleashed Fury is nice, but 3 GCD's for a defensive cd is absurd and not practical in a PvP setting.

Ancestral Guidance, in the sense that it can self-heal at least.

When your getting trained, you cant hardly even cast, and when you do it trying to heal. A "defensive tool" such as this is almost useless unless you are free casting.

edit* This thread is about something entirely different and I don't want to derail it. I just hate it when people say elementals survival is good when we get trained by every dps in sight and have to rely on others to even survive.

[Eliot123]

Some 3-minute form of Cleansing Totem would be awesome imo, it could last maybe.... 10 seconds? Cleansing stuff every 2 seconds.

[Teriz]

Yes. Shaman need another water totem, and Cleansing totem would help out a lot in both PvE and PvP.

[zylya]

I disagree completely - I think that every healer should only be able to cleanse magic + 1 other, and since our Cleanse Spirit already does that, I don't think that adding Cleansing Totem would solve any problem.

[Protoman]

Yes, definitely. Surprised that it wasn't put back in by Blizz actually, I figured when they were making totems all longer cd active stuff this would make a come back. I think a 3 min cd, 10 sec duration that cleanses and prevents any application of magic or curse debuff.....as well as some extra bonus like pushback or interrupt immunity.

[thunderdragon2]

This is reasonable idea, although ideally I would prefer that they just removed the dispel mechanic entirely.

it'd be ideal if they removed rogues and dks but i dont see either of us being happy any time soon

back on topic id love it back ive missed it so

---------- Post added 2012-05-04 at 02:48 AM ----------

Yes, definitely. Surprised that it wasn't put back in by Blizz actually, I figured when they were making totems all longer cd active stuff this would make a come back. I think a 3 min cd, 10 sec duration that cleanses and prevents any application of magic or curse debuff.....as well as some extra bonus like pushback or interrupt immunity.

its not a clensing totem i it dosent do poisons and diseases

[Endus]

its not a clensing totem i it dosent do poisons and diseases

Yes, but Shaman being able to cleanse literally everything AND purge off the enemy's buffs too would be more than a little OP.

[thunderdragon2]

Yes, but Shaman being able to cleanse literally everything AND purge off the enemy's buffs too would be more than a little OP.

i never asked for nor wanted to cleanse magic or curses, i wanted to keep the dispells the way they were. i prefered them that way and dont get me started on purge against some classes purge is pointless like druids for example. for purge to have any affect on a resto druid u had to literly spam it.

[Undefetter]

i never asked for nor wanted to cleanse magic or curses, i wanted to keep the dispells the way they were. i prefered them that way and dont get me started on purge against some classes purge is pointless like druids for example. for purge to have any affect on a resto druid u had to literly spam it.

They had to give us Dispel Magic because all healers needed it for their design goals in the future (the knowledge that there WILL be someone who can dispel magic, unlike previously). This meant they had to remove either Diseases or Poisons to not give us too many dispels, and since we don't actually have any Diseases or Poisons but we do have Curses (Hex) it made more sense to scrap both of them and give us Curses - did you not find it odd we could not dispel our own CC?

[Volitar]

Yes, its stupid to take away a shaman ability and then give it to another class