Should a new variation of Cleansing Totem be brought back?

[Bludstorm]

They should just bring back cleansing totem as a AOE cleanse spirit with short duration and long cooldown

Cleansing Totem: Summons a water totem lasting 3 sec that removes all magic and curse debuffs from allies within 40 yards and makes them immune to debuffs of that type. 3 min cooldown.

While they're at it they should also bring back

Sentry Totem: Summons an Air Totem lasting 20 sec that exposes all hidden and invisible enemies within 10 yards. 20 sec cooldown.

[BennyZee]

It would be pretty awesome to have a Mass Dispel totem for curses and magic. On a 1 minute cooldown, 1 pulse. In MoP, I'm not looking forward to having a 8 sec CD on my dispell (especially since old content is/will be with heavy dispell requirements)

[Teslaspule]

I wonder what happens if a monk mass-cleanses a 5 man arena with unstable on everyone (if unstable affliction is still in mop)

[Yumisara]

I would love to have this brought back, I loved cleansing totem. I'm ashamed they took it from us, but let Priests still have Mass Dispel and Monks get this new thing.

In honestly give all the healers something like that, or completely remove it.

[iadamson]

Resto Druid

Nature's Cure
Removes: All Magic, Curse, and Poison effects from a friendly target.

Balance Druid

Remove Corruption
Removes: All Curse and Poison effects from a friendly target.

AND

Symbiosis (Priest) Mass Dispel
Removes: Removes one harmful Magic effect from each friendly target and one benefitical from each enemy target. (Also able to remove some effects that are normally undispellable.)

OR

Symbiosis (Shaman) Purge
Removes: One beneficial Magic effect from an enemy target.

Mage

Remove Curse
Removes: All Curses on a friendly target.

Mistweaver Monk

Revival
Removes: All Magic, Poison, and Disease effects from all friendly targets in an area.

Detox
Removes: All harmful Poison, Disease, and Magic effects.

Holy Paladin

Cleanse
Removes: All harmful Poison, Disease, and Magic effects.

Holy Priest

Dispel Magic
Removes: One beneficial Magic effect from an enemy target.

Mass Dispel
Removes: All harmful Magic on friendly targets and one beneficial Magic effect from each enemy target. (Max 10 friendly & 10 enemy targets at one time)

Purify
Removes: All Magic and Disease effects from one friendly target.

Resto Shaman

Purge
Removes: One beneficial Magic effect from an enemy target.

Purify Spirit
Removes: All Curse and Magic effects from a friendly target.


Here's why I disagree with the dispel model...

I think beneficial dispels shouldn't be available to healing specs.
So many DPS specs have the ability to dispel beneficial magic.
Elemental Shaman, Enhancement Shaman, Balance Druid (Symbiosis), Shadow Priest, Discipline Priest.
DPS classes are the ones targeting the boss - with healers targeting the raid.
I would say there is a slight disadvantage to priest and shamans in this category.

Think about it, Monks, Druids, and Paladins can remove 3 harmful effects.
While Priest & Shaman can only remove 2 harmful effects.
Sure you can justify this by saying they can remove beneficial magic too.
However from a healing point of view, we're defensive not offensive.
Also with a variety of dps specs able to remove beneficial magic its not like Priest or Shamans gain a healing advantage whats so ever from having this ability.

When it comes to curing a raid of negative effects anything a Priest or Shaman can do... A Druid, Paladin, and Monk can do better... (in a sense)

Shaman's Cleanse --> Magic, Curse
Druid's Cleanse --> Magic, Curse, Poison

Priest's Cleanse --> Magic, Disease
Paladin's Cleanse --> Magic, Disease, Poison

Priest's Mass Dispel --> All harmful magic effects (10 targets max)
Monk's Mass Dispel --> All harmful magic, poison, disease (all targets within vision)

This is a clear defensive disadvantage to healing specs.
If having a offensive dispel justifies it, then have purge removed from resto and Mass Dispel altered for Holy Priests.
We're playing a defensive role in raids not offensive, why should we have an ability that hinders our defensive dispel abilities. When offensive classes already posses the ability to remove beneficial magic?

[Socialhealer]

Astral Shift/Stone Bulwark Totem/Nature's Guardian
Primal Elementalist - Earth/Unleashed Fury - Rockbiter
Ancestral Guidance, in the sense that it can self-heal at least.


We're not talking about live servers, we're talking about MoP. Where we've got plenty of defensive tools.

is changing weapon enchants off the GCD? if not as amazing as rockbiter is a 5 second shield wall, for 3 globals its just not going to happen...

if this is the case i'd hope they remove them off the GCD so we could actually effectively use rockbiter, in pvp and pve would increase required skill a little for shamans, without devastating our dps (warriors get this with shield wall, no shield needed last i saw?)

[Radux]

is changing weapon enchants off the GCD? if not as amazing as rockbiter is a 5 second shield wall, for 3 globals its just not going to happen...

if this is the case i'd hope they remove them off the GCD so we could actually effectively use rockbiter, in pvp and pve would increase required skill a little for shamans, without devastating our dps (warriors get this with shield wall, no shield needed last i saw?)

I'm assuming he's talking about running with a weapon swap macro (well... Enh will have to). Otherwise yeah. Still costs a GCD to reapply imbues.

[Cai]

If Cleansing Totem was brought back I think it would have to be like Priest Mass Dispel. It would cleanse magic/curses but to everyone in a 20 yrs range from totem.

[Endus]

is changing weapon enchants off the GCD? if not as amazing as rockbiter is a 5 second shield wall, for 3 globals its just not going to happen...

Doesn't have to be 3 GCDs. If it's PvP, and there's a target you know can outgun you in a straight pewpew contest, popping Rockbiter and Unleashing with the UF talent is a major advantage. You lose 7% damage (assuming you're replacing Flametongue Weapon), they lose 40% damage. That's a HUGE gain in your favor, especially since you can maintain reasonable uptime, 33% of the time. Even if you average it out, it's still a net gain.

For PvE, if survival is that big a factor, you'd swap imbues as well. We already swapped imbues for cases like Beth'tilac and drones, unless you had enough other taunts to get them down near-immediately without anyone sacrificing DPS, not necessarily likely if you were ranged-heavy.


I would LOVE having imbues taken off the GCD, and I've suggested that change myself both here and on the official forums, but I honestly don't see it happening. It's a huge flexibility gain, and I can understand why the dev team might be worried about the gains we'd see as a result.

[Hexotic]

Cleansing totem was one of the most op things in the game, i was sad to see it go. Would absolutely love to get it back.

[mjolnrir]

Yea i completely agree, even if its not a totem shamans need a better dispell. Currently they have a single target dispell on players, ok true it can do curses but priests can dispell off all players with their mass dispell, and they can still dispell diseases. Priests also can dispell 2 magic effects off enemy players aswell as ice block and divine shield whilst shamans only have the ability to dispell 1 and that barely works on any mobs anymore.
Hm I guess druids and pallys have pretty limited dispells too. Ah idk guess thats a bit contradictory from my previous statement. Maybe priests just have too good dispells...
Well in answer to the poll, i would love cleansing totem back, would be awsome

[wuhuwuhu]

Doesn't have to be 3 GCDs. If it's PvP, and there's a target you know can outgun you in a straight pewpew contest, popping Rockbiter and Unleashing with the UF talent is a major advantage. You lose 7% damage (assuming you're replacing Flametongue Weapon), they lose 40% damage. That's a HUGE gain in your favor, especially since you can maintain reasonable uptime, 33% of the time. Even if you average it out, it's still a net gain.

For PvE, if survival is that big a factor, you'd swap imbues as well. We already swapped imbues for cases like Beth'tilac and drones, unless you had enough other taunts to get them down near-immediately without anyone sacrificing DPS, not necessarily likely if you were ranged-heavy.


I would LOVE having imbues taken off the GCD, and I've suggested that change myself both here and on the official forums, but I honestly don't see it happening. It's a huge flexibility gain, and I can understand why the dev team might be worried about the gains we'd see as a result.

Yes, in PvP....if you are target from a DD (or more)....taken heavy dmg over a longer time.

Rockbiter Weapon - You take 40% reduced damage from the enemy target for 5 sec.

it sounds nice....and maybe compensate the +heal from earthlivin weapons

[Omanley]

@ iadamson: you forgot mages' spell steal in that list

---------- Post added 2012-05-04 at 05:11 PM ----------

If Cleansing Totem was brought back I think it would have to be like Priest Mass Dispel. It would cleanse magic/curses but to everyone in a 20 yrs range from totem.

Maybe remove bubble/iceblock too (would probably have to have a short ramp-up time though, similar to capacitor, maybe benefittting from the same glyph).
Since it is a destroyable 5hp totem and it being a 3min cd, I dont think it would be all that unreasonable.

[Protoman]

I was also pretty annoyed when Shaman lost disease/poison cleanse......especially poison. Would have preferred poison to curses. Felt like they wanted us to be weaker vs rogues/hunters/dks.

Cleansing totem on like 3min cd with mass dispel type effect would be awesome. I think it would fit thematically too since we have purge and are known for being able to remove buffs, so being able to remove divine shield or iceblock seems like it would fit that theme.

[Blitond]

Doesn't have to be 3 GCDs. If it's PvP, and there's a target you know can outgun you in a straight pewpew contest, popping Rockbiter and Unleashing with the UF talent is a major advantage. You lose 7% damage (assuming you're replacing Flametongue Weapon), they lose 40% damage. That's a HUGE gain in your favor, especially since you can maintain reasonable uptime, 33% of the time. Even if you average it out, it's still a net gain.

You cant have your cake and eat it to. You cant assume someone is using Unleash Fury with Rockbiter and then not use it for Flametongue. So yes, you lose the 7% + 25% damage bonus for 10 seconds to gain 40% reduction.

I'm not trying to argue against a trade off of damage for survivability/utility but having to spend 3 GCD's seems silly to me. I haven't thought of the weapon swapping, but that might be the way to go. It also seems a bit silly to have to have 3 identical weapons, but I guess you do what you got to do.

[Cai]

Maybe remove bubble/iceblock too (would probably have to have a short ramp-up time though, similar to capacitor, maybe benefittting from the same glyph).
Since it is a destroyable 5hp totem and it being a 3min cd, I dont think it would be all that unreasonable.

I am not a PvPer so I really have no opinion towards removing IB/Bubble. It could be like Tremor Totem and ticks every second for 6 seconds, and have a 2 min cd. 3 min seems a little lengthy to me.

Also not that we still have our glyph to increase totem health by 5% of our own. Which honestly I feel should be a base passive.

[Blitond]

I do miss cleansing totem (it was the one of the main reasons I rolled shaman in the firs place), but with the new dispel design (and even the one in cata) it doesn't really fit.

I am still a bit bitter about loosing remove poison and disease when cata hit I'm not going to lie, but something had to give (at least because of resto). The main thing I hate about it was that we went from having good defense against rogue and dk's baseline to not having anything against them. Curses just aren't that dominant in PvP or PvE. Although I thought we would get a Witchdoctor instead of Monk for the new class and this would have changed, but I was wrong

Instead of a mass cleansing totem I would still like to see a mass purge totem. This is PvP bias I know, but seems more of a "total shaman" fit rather than a mass dispel like totem. This would benefit all specs other than just resto.

[Aviators]

Why? and No, Restoration shamans don't need it. Nothing in MOP suggests they need a mass dispel. EDIT that removes curses/magic effects.

Old cleansing totem was a too much of set it and forget it mechanic.

Revival is a Mistweaver monk ability only, it seems like their raid cooldown.

[takolin]

Here's why I disagree with the dispel model...

I think beneficial dispels shouldn't be available to healing specs.
So many DPS specs have the ability to dispel beneficial magic.
Elemental Shaman, Enhancement Shaman, Balance Druid (Symbiosis), Shadow Priest, Discipline Priest.
DPS classes are the ones targeting the boss - with healers targeting the raid.
I would say there is a slight disadvantage to priest and shamans in this category.

Think about it, Monks, Druids, and Paladins can remove 3 harmful effects.
While Priest & Shaman can only remove 2 harmful effects.
Sure you can justify this by saying they can remove beneficial magic too.
However from a healing point of view, we're defensive not offensive.
Also with a variety of dps specs able to remove beneficial magic its not like Priest or Shamans gain a healing advantage whats so ever from having this ability.

When it comes to curing a raid of negative effects anything a Priest or Shaman can do... A Druid, Paladin, and Monk can do better... (in a sense)

Shaman's Cleanse --> Magic, Curse
Druid's Cleanse --> Magic, Curse, Poison

Priest's Cleanse --> Magic, Disease
Paladin's Cleanse --> Magic, Disease, Poison

Priest's Mass Dispel --> All harmful magic effects (10 targets max)
Monk's Mass Dispel --> All harmful magic, poison, disease (all targets within vision)

This is a clear defensive disadvantage to healing specs.
If having a offensive dispel justifies it, then have purge removed from resto and Mass Dispel altered for Holy Priests.
We're playing a defensive role in raids not offensive, why should we have an ability that hinders our defensive dispel abilities. When offensive classes already posses the ability to remove beneficial magic?

1: In PvP having an offensive dispel is a great asset.
2: Most if not all dispellable effects in Cataclysm raiding were magic debuffs and a large portion of debuffs in 5 mans were also magic. Thus all other dispels are more important in PvP and the things you couldn't dispel in a 5man were rarely a major issue.