Shadow back to CATA rotation

[yurano]

Shadow is NOT back to Cata rotation.

1) SW: D is now proc based.
2) Mind Blast is now partially proc based.
3) DP is now proc based (due to RNG from Shadow Orbs).

[Deleted]

Shadow is NOT back to Cata rotation.

1) SW: D is now proc based.
2) Mind Blast is now partially proc based.
3) DP is now proc based (due to RNG from Shadow Orbs).

Isn't SW: D only proc based >20%?

[Brusalk]

With Surge of Darkness SWP damage has a chance at all levels of HP to act like the target has less than 20% hp.

(And the talent has a reduced benefit once you actually are below 20% hp, as it's proc is useless)

---------- Post added 2012-05-04 at 06:23 PM ----------

Mind Spike indeed doesn't remove DP on the beta.

Awesome

[MoanaLisa]

So, we are looking at like a 40% up time on DP without taking the Mind Surge proc into account.

I think DP really needs to be looked at differently in its present form. It's really more of a nuke with a lot of damage over a few seconds.
A dot that runs for 5 seconds barely qualifies as a dot. If the time is stretched out then the initial damage will likely be reduced as well.

Trying to figure uptime for it doesn't make any sense. Be careful what you ask for.

[Aevus]

I for one like the current state of shadow on beta, a few tweaks and we're there. I don't know what kind of fun and meningful abilities Aevus is talking about, a standard rotation with a couple of CDs? I find that meningful and the fun part is what I expect the encounters to bring ^^ (from a pve aspect anyway)

I take some of my words back as I got beta access tonight through my friend for more than 5 minutes comparing to last time. I did enjoy playing priest, but I find it that I don't use Mind Spike as much as intended? I mean Death is used more thanks to the procs, shouldn't they switch these two as Death is being used anyway under 20%, wheres Mind Spike seems situational. I did like the fact that on previous build Mind Spike did not extinguish our dots and was an instant, I know it's OP, so maybe just make it so it does not affect our dots as a proc?

I'm fairly new to priest, am I wrong somewhere?

EDIT: And I agree with Brusalk about the Death proc.

[smokeajay]

I think DP really needs to be looked at differently in its present form. It's really more of a nuke with a lot of damage over a few seconds.
A dot that runs for 5 seconds barely qualifies as a dot. If the time is stretched out then the initial damage will likely be reduced as well.

Trying to figure uptime for it doesn't make any sense. Be careful what you ask for.

I didn't ask for anything. As I am not on Beta, I was merely doing some quick math to get a "feel" of the rotation on the current Beta build and how DP's dmg compares from live to Beta. And unless I went horribly wrong with my math somewhere, the quoted 40% uptime was more in a perfect world type thing.

[MoanaLisa]

I didn't ask for anything. As I am not on Beta, I was merely doing some quick math to get a "feel" of the rotation on the current Beta build and how DP's dmg compares from live to Beta. And unless I went horribly wrong with my math somewhere, the quoted 40% uptime was more in a perfect world type thing.

It would depend on whether you send off DP when you have any orbs or if you wait for three. Personally, I'm waiting for three but that's mostly because I'm doing stupid damage compared to what I need to do to kill mobs while questing. This week has been somewhat difficult to know anything at all with all of the changes.

All in all I think that right now I like the new DP quite a bit. It doesn't really feel much like a dot and up-thread somewhere someone reported that Mind Spike doesn't wipe it (untested personally but on my list for tonight). With reasonable amounts of haste and 3 orbs it will barely tick for 5 seconds.

DP a mob (non-boss) at 50% health or so with SW:Pain running plus a SW-Death at 20% is quite a punch. I find that even with the last set of changes and Mind Spike receding into the background somewhat, we're very bursty.

[Brusalk]

EDIT: And I agree with Brusalk about the Death proc.

I'd like them to change the proc to Mind Spike but give it a damage bonus so that it hits for roughly the same amount as a SWD would.
It gives us two benefits.
1) The proc is actually useful sub 20%, as a MS version would not put SWD on cd.
2) We would not have any problems with the backlash damage hitting for too much, either as a result of MS in execute range, or with damage bonuses in non-execute phases which would prohibit the use of the proc.

[Deleted]

I do not have beta but it seems to me Shadow Priest are becoming some kind of proc based class. The new Shadow Orb resource seems clunky and to do everything around procs just feels... wrong. Anyone agree?

[Deleted]

I do not have beta but it seems to me Shadow Priest are becoming some kind of proc based class. The new Shadow Orb resource seems clunky and to do everything around procs just feels... wrong. Anyone agree?

I'd rather have some RNG and procs compared to the current system where its almost to 'stale'.

[Deleted]

I'd rather have some RNG and procs compared to the current system where its almost to 'stale'.

What is wrong with "stale"? RNG is the worst thing ever for PvP and in PvE we become Fire Mages 2.0. What happens if they don't proc? As I said, I don't have beta but I really don't want to see my DPS turn into shit if I don't get a proc.

[Deleted]

What is wrong with "stale"? RNG is the worst thing ever for PvP and in PvE we become Fire Mages 2.0. What happens if they don't proc? As I said, I don't have beta but I really don't want that my DPS can be affected by RNG much.

I haven't tried anything on the beta with these latest changes but they sound fun, exiting and 'better' then live, but if they fuck it up and make it way to bad RNG wise, such as fire mages or pre-4.3 ret pallys then of course it will be bad.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Am I the only one who liked it just the way it is now in Cata, except for the rng aspect of shadow orbs?

[Deleted]

I'd like them to change the proc to Mind Spike but give it a damage bonus so that it hits for roughly the same amount as a SWD would.
It gives us two benefits.
1) The proc is actually useful sub 20%, as a MS version would not put SWD on cd.
2) We would not have any problems with the backlash damage hitting for too much, either as a result of MS in execute range, or with damage bonuses in non-execute phases which would prohibit the use of the proc.

should just point out that the backlash from SW: D is exactly the same regardless of how much SW: D hits for. atm on beta I seem to take about 9.5k damage from it self buffed (the damage is mitigated by sform / damage reductions) whether it hits for 20k or 200k I still take the same damage.

I do however like the idea of a proc spike with a damage increase. something along the lines of spike doing 3x damage or something. Or maybe even having a DP proc. 'your next DP does not require orbs and casts as though 3 orbs were present'.
That said having it as SW: D does make the choices on that tier a little more interesting. A fight with high execute uptime, don't take it.

Anyone know if the SW: D proc damage is being increased by or activating the twist of fate talent?

[Aevus]

I'd like them to change the proc to Mind Spike but give it a damage bonus so that it hits for roughly the same amount as a SWD would.
It gives us two benefits.
1) The proc is actually useful sub 20%, as a MS version would not put SWD on cd.
2) We would not have any problems with the backlash damage hitting for too much, either as a result of MS in execute range, or with damage bonuses in non-execute phases which would prohibit the use of the proc.

My thoughts and post exactly. This way Mind Spike becomes much more active, and we don't lose SW: Death, as it is intended to work at 20%. Seems logical and doesn't affect much of rotation/dmg if fixed correctly.

[smokeajay]

It would depend on whether you send off DP when you have any orbs or if you wait for three. Personally, I'm waiting for three but that's mostly because I'm doing stupid damage compared to what I need to do to kill mobs while questing. This week has been somewhat difficult to know anything at all with all of the changes.

All in all I think that right now I like the new DP quite a bit. It doesn't really feel much like a dot and up-thread somewhere someone reported that Mind Spike doesn't wipe it (untested personally but on my list for tonight). With reasonable amounts of haste and 3 orbs it will barely tick for 5 seconds.

DP a mob (non-boss) at 50% health or so with SW:Pain running plus a SW-Death at 20% is quite a punch. I find that even with the last set of changes and Mind Spike receding into the background somewhat, we're very bursty.

Hmm. No matter how many orbs you have when you cast DP, mathematically speaking (no scaling, no haste, no crit, etc.), the total damage is the same (Disclaimer: the damage per orb is the same). I think the biggest issue is the "loss" of orbs if you wait even a split second to cast a 3 orb DP, so I am thinking it would be best to cast at 2 orbs seeing how SA randomly generates orbs. Unless we obtain/retain a pool system like Retribution Paladins do with their Holy Power (they can store up to 5, but can only use 3).

However, 3 orb DPs would generate higher DPS if you manage to make the RNG Gods happy and quicky proc 3 SA shortly after casting DP.

Guess we'll have to see when they open up meters and logs on Beta.

[Brusalk]

Well there's no reason not to expect a SA orb from generating, as you have anywhere from 1-5 seconds notice, as they don't give you the orb until they hit the target. There's not a reason to cast at 2 orbs. Not to mention that casting at 2 as compared to 3 will most likely make you lose an extra tick.

[smokeajay]

Well there's no reason not to expect a SA orb from generating, as you have anywhere from 1-5 seconds notice, as they don't give you the orb until they hit the target. There's not a reason to cast at 2 orbs. Not to mention that casting at 2 as compared to 3 will most likely make you lose an extra tick.

I based my argument on what someone said in this thread, that they generate an orb when SA procs, not hits the target.

[Brusalk]

Ah. Yeah, that guy was just saying that he'd like it to be that way, as when the apparitions bug out at the moment we wouldn't get the orb from that proc, and that having it come from when they spawn would fix it.

[Ananan]

Hmm. No matter how many orbs you have when you cast DP, mathematically speaking (no scaling, no haste, no crit, etc.), the total damage is the same (Disclaimer: the damage per orb is the same). I think the biggest issue is the "loss" of orbs if you wait even a split second to cast a 3 orb DP, so I am thinking it would be best to cast at 2 orbs seeing how SA randomly generates orbs.

Well, the problem with that is that you'd spend more global cooldowns on casting the thing over the course of a fight. I'm sure it'll be a loss to cast it at anything except three orbs.