1. #2121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasperio View Post
    I'm not sure I see the problem, considering it's roughly 1000 years before Skyrim. LOTS of things happen in time between ESO and TES:V Skyrim.

    Could you elaborate of why this offends you so much? =S I can't find anything to suggest in the lore what's wrong with this..
    There's no human race more against elves than the Nords.

    The Nords hold to their custom more than anyone else.

    This is before Tiber Septim. There is no united Tamriel, nor has there been in written history (I don't think).

    The Greybeards still exist. The Dragonborn has existed. The Nord seat of power lies in Windhelm at the Palace of Kings where they are able to more easily convene for council with the Greybeards.

    For a Nord king to take up residence in an Elvish homeland is practically blasphemy and there's no way in hell King Jorunn has the support of even a slight majority of the Nords with such an act.

    Nords are to humans what Altmer are to elves. The proudest race who consider themselves the first humans to come to Tamriel and conquerors even before Tiber Septim (a Nord) aka Talos was born.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-01-29 at 07:46 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  2. #2122
    Stood in the Fire Zenko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    For a Nord king to take up residence in an Elvish homeland is practically blasphemy and there's no way in hell King Jorunn has the support of even a slight majority of the Nords with such an act.

    Nords are to humans what Altmer are to elves. The proudest race who consider themselves the first humans to come to Tamriel and conquerors even before Tiber Septim (a Nord) aka Talos was born.
    I dont see the problem. A Nord ruling over the Dunmer follows nicely with how they are treated during the events of Skyrim: as 2nd class citizens. What better way to wave your Nordic pride around than to sit on your rival/enemies throne and command their people.

  3. #2123
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenko View Post
    I dont see the problem. A Nord ruling over the Dunmer follows nicely with how they are treated during the events of Skyrim: as 2nd class citizens. What better way to wave your Nordic pride around than to sit on your rival/enemies throne and command their people.
    That's not how other Nords would see it. They may be conquerors but they stick to their homeland like they stick to their tradition. Their seat of power HAS to be in Skyrim and nowhere else. It just doesn't make sense anywhere else.

    And I think it's a diplomatic move by Jorunn to ensure that the weak pact remains intact. It still doesn't make sense though.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  4. #2124
    Bloodsail Admiral Kasperio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    There's no human race more against elves than the Nords.

    The Nords hold to their custom more than anyone else.

    This is before Tiber Septim. There is no united Tamriel, nor has there been in written history (I don't think).

    The Greybeards still exist. The Dragonborn has existed. The Nord seat of power lies in Windhelm at the Palace of Kings where they are able to more easily convene for council with the Greybeards.

    For a Nord king to take up residence in an Elvish homeland is practically blasphemy and there's no way in hell King Jorunn has the support of even a slight majority of the Nords with such an act.

    Nords are to humans what Altmer are to elves. The proudest race who consider themselves the first humans to come to Tamriel and conquerors even before Tiber Septim (a Nord) aka Talos was born.
    I think you're misunderstanding past Nord with Skyrim Nord, fella.

    History

    Historically, Vvardenfell was inhabited by the Dwemer for long ages before the Aldmer arrived in Tamriel. When the Aldmer inhabited Cyrodiil, a group of them were exiled for their choice to worship the Daedra. These exiled Aldmer were led by the prophet Veloth over a mountain range to Morrowind, where they became known as the Chimer and settled with the Dwemer.
    However, the two would not live in peace, as disputes over land and religion led to conflict. "While the Dwemer were an agnostic people, preferring reason to faith, the Chimer were staunch Daedra-worshippers, and considered the Dwemer's lack of belief an affront to their gods."[1] They would however unite against a common enemy when the Nords of Skyrim invaded Morrowind in 1E 401. Due to the efforts and budding personal friendship between Indoril Nerevar of the Chimer and Dumac of the Dwemer, the Nords were pushed out by 1E 416. This alliance born out of need formed the First Council and lasted for some time.
    Source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Morrowind

    There's lots more stuff about Nords in Tamriel. While I agree that the nords of TES:V Skyrim are more self-minded, they used to be the guys who united Tamriel and conquered other regions. I even believe you may know of one famous Nord who decided to errect his throne of his lands in the very center of Tamriel

    Also:

    The Skyrim Conquests
    In 1E 241, King Vrage the Gifted (Harald's son) began the aggressive expansion now known as the Skyrim Conquests, which would culminate in the First Empire of the Nords.[4][6] Within a span of fifty years, the descendants of Ysgramor ruled all of northern Tamriel, including most of present-day High Rock and the whole of Morrowind.[4][6] Some Nord leaders wanted to turn south to Cyrodiil, but the Jerall Mountains proved to be too big a barrier, and northern Cyrodiil too poor a prize.[3]
    Over the next few centuries, Skyrim expanded and contracted as battles were won and lost.[11] The Conquests, and the Empire, came to an end in 1E 369 with the death of King Borgas, the last of the Ysgramor line, during the Wild Hunt.[4][3] When the ruling council or Moot was unable to choose Jarl Hanse of Winterhold (considered the obvious choice by Imperial scholars), as the new High King, the ensuing civil war tore the Empire apart.
    Source: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord
    Last edited by Kasperio; 2013-01-29 at 08:53 AM.
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  5. #2125
    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    one way to make tanking more fun is the way someone said before, with unit collision, you actually have to your self infront of the bosses attacks to block it from hitting your healers, might not be perfect but probably more fun than the click to taunt system. i dont think ESO will have the same problems of loads and dps and not many healers/tanks, but we will see.
    a perfect way to block bank/auction house entrance, block mailboxes e.t.c. I don't think MMO community is ready for unit collision, even if it seems great...but I agree that they have to make tanks more fun to play and not have less responsibilities...the reason there is lack in tanks is not because they have more responsibilities than other roles but because usually they are not fun (since they made it too easy to tank....).
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  6. #2126
    Bloodsail Admiral Kasperio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    a perfect way to block bank/auction house entrance, block mailboxes e.t.c. I don't think MMO community is ready for unit collision, even if it seems great...but I agree that they have to make tanks more fun to play and not have less responsibilities...the reason there is lack in tanks is not because they have more responsibilities than other roles but because usually they are not fun (since they made it too easy to tank....).
    What if they made mobs respect unit collision but not other players except changing player status in PvP battles to mob status hence activating collision?
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  7. #2127
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasperio View Post
    What if they made mobs respect unit collision but not other players except changing player status in PvP battles to mob status hence activating collision?
    that would be great but I don't think this is possible, although I am not a programmer I think if they design players as "obstackles" it cannot be changed so simply..maybe if they add tower shields and make these shields have the collision effect...
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  8. #2128
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    that would be great but I don't think this is possible, although I am not a programmer I think if they design players as "obstackles" it cannot be changed so simply..maybe if they add tower shields and make these shields have the collision effect...
    Or maybe go the TERA way where some areas (like big cities) don't have unit collision enabled.

  9. #2129
    Quote Originally Posted by Smirre View Post
    Or maybe go the TERA way where some areas (like big cities) don't have unit collision enabled.
    I didn't know about this...so it is technically possible to turn on/off unit collision by will ignore my post then, hehe
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  10. #2130
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    a perfect way to block bank/auction house entrance, block mailboxes e.t.c. I don't think MMO community is ready for unit collision, even if it seems great...but I agree that they have to make tanks more fun to play and not have less responsibilities...the reason there is lack in tanks is not because they have more responsibilities than other roles but because usually they are not fun (since they made it too easy to tank....).
    They should be able to create a zone and set a no-collision flag, at least for the PvE cities and hubs. Also, collision detection has been in MMOs for a while.

  11. #2131
    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    one way to make tanking more fun is the way someone said before, with unit collision, you actually have to your self infront of the bosses attacks to block it from hitting your healers, might not be perfect but probably more fun than the click to taunt system. i dont think ESO will have the same problems of loads and dps and not many healers/tanks, but we will see.
    WoW kind of already has that - at least for melee mobs - it's called Frost Nova.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    If they absolute have to put in a trinity concept then I really hope they don't have artificial skills like taunt.

    If you have to tank, then make them tank by positioning, using block skills, use cc skills. Anything but a one button taunt monkey.
    I used to be a proponent of non Holy Trinity combat. But after trying WoW's scenarios, I'm not so sure anymore.

    The nice thing about the Holy Trinity system, is that not much "on the fly" communication is needed. As long as everyone does their job, things will go smoothly. For harder encounters, at most you need to do a little pre-planning, then you dive in. If your plan works, it works. If it doesn't, you wipe.

    For "tanking" with "positioning, using block skills, use cc skills", you would need an PVP Arena team level of coordination + Vent. Else all you will get is a chaotic zergfest with overlapping mistimed CCs.

  12. #2132
    The lack of holy trinity in GW2 does indeed result in players not knowing what other players are capable of. This is also related to being unfamiliar with the game (which is unlikely for us (former) WoW crackheads). Which indeed means there's some communication or adapting required. This can be done while you're traveling to the instance, or while corpserunning after a wipe. Its part of knowing your own class as well as those of your peers.

    In WoW scenarios, if you got 2 healers, you'll want to communicate as well whereas in GW2 it'd just be a matter of swapping around a weapon to become more damage less healing/support.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  13. #2133
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    That's not how other Nords would see it. They may be conquerors but they stick to their homeland like they stick to their tradition. Their seat of power HAS to be in Skyrim and nowhere else. It just doesn't make sense anywhere else.

    And I think it's a diplomatic move by Jorunn to ensure that the weak pact remains intact. It still doesn't make sense though.
    You gotta remember the Nords are also highly religious and loyal to their high king. "Hey guys, I'm gonna go to Morrowind for a while. Those pussy elves need us to save the world from a false god, so they're just begging me to go lead their armies."

    A statement like that should work for most people. Sure, there may be some dissenters, but that sounds more like questing material to me, rather than a plot hole.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  14. #2134
    I don't know about the Nord's religiosity before Talos. I do know that the Nords were ALWAYS self-minded. From the very beginning when they came from Atmora. They also hated Elves from the very beginning thus the conquests/invasions into Elven lands. But they never decided to make an Elven territory the heart of their Nation. Until ESO.

    Tiber Septim ruled from Cyrodiil not because he was a diplomatic genius but because he had powers beyond thought, because he was deceitful and because he ruled with an iron fist. I honestly don't even understand how the Nords see him as their god king when he KILLED the spirit of Ysgramor just to ascertain his seat of power.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  15. #2135
    The thing is, tehy aren't making morrowind the heart of their nation. The seat of power of the nordic nation of a skyrim is windhelm, that's it. Mournhold is the headquarters or main base for the alliance. The nords capital is still windhelm.

    In a weird perspective/analogy that might not make sense, think of it as world war two and the ebon heart pact are the allies. Say skyrim is Canada, Morrowind is Britian, and Black marsh is America. Mournhold would be the say allied central command in london (I know it doesn't make complete sense as there is no one leader but hey it's as close as I could get....but you have to keep in mind, While king of the nords and leader of the pact, doesn't make him the ruler of the other races)

  16. #2136
    Quote Originally Posted by Drewan View Post
    The thing is, tehy aren't making morrowind the heart of their nation. The seat of power of the nordic nation of a skyrim is windhelm, that's it. Mournhold is the headquarters or main base for the alliance. The nords capital is still windhelm.

    In a weird perspective/analogy that might not make sense, think of it as world war two and the ebon heart pact are the allies. Say skyrim is Canada, Morrowind is Britian, and Black marsh is America. Mournhold would be the say allied central command in london (I know it doesn't make complete sense as there is no one leader but hey it's as close as I could get....but you have to keep in mind, While king of the nords and leader of the pact, doesn't make him the ruler of the other races)
    I haven't played Morrowind but isn't Mournhold on Vvardenfell? Cause if so that makes no sense since the grand prize is Cyrodiil and Vvardenfell, while easy to defend due to it's geographical position, makes it shitty to get troops to Cyrodiil. Skyrim on the other hand could easily use where Falkreath is to route troops into the heart of Tamriel with ease.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  17. #2137
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I haven't played Morrowind but isn't Mournhold on Vvardenfell? Cause if so that makes no sense since the grand prize is Cyrodiil and Vvardenfell, while easy to defend due to it's geographical position, makes it shitty to get troops to Cyrodiil. Skyrim on the other hand could easily use where Falkreath is to route troops into the heart of Tamriel with ease.
    I think it's more of a political power-base. Nords troops will still be invading from skyrim, dunmer from morrowind, argonains from black marsh.

  18. #2138
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I haven't played Morrowind but isn't Mournhold on Vvardenfell? Cause if so that makes no sense since the grand prize is Cyrodiil and Vvardenfell, while easy to defend due to it's geographical position, makes it shitty to get troops to Cyrodiil. Skyrim on the other hand could easily use where Falkreath is to route troops into the heart of Tamriel with ease.
    http://www.tes.altervista.org/mappagigante.jpg

    Mournhold is on the mainland, and closer to Black Marsh than it is to Skyrim. So no water crossing to get to Cyrodiil from the Ebonheart leader base.

  19. #2139
    Bloodsail Admiral Kasperio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    I haven't played Morrowind but isn't Mournhold on Vvardenfell? Cause if so that makes no sense since the grand prize is Cyrodiil and Vvardenfell, while easy to defend due to it's geographical position, makes it shitty to get troops to Cyrodiil. Skyrim on the other hand could easily use where Falkreath is to route troops into the heart of Tamriel with ease.
    1st: Falkerth's main line of road systems leads to Elinhir in Hammerfell. You learn while playing Skyrim that Riften is the primary line between Skyrim and Cyrodil, but even so it's pretty fragile already.

    2nd: Let's assume the Ebornheart Pact DID decide to use Skyrim as their main launch point. If you look at the map-
    http://www.tes.altervista.org/mappagigante.jpg
    - you can probably already guess the issue. Let's say the Ebonheart Pact first has to mobilize to Skyrim. That'll take alot of time and by then, it's highly likely the Daggerfall Covenant has already mobilized and moved eastwards into Cyrodil from Hammerfell and High Rock. Now the Nords have their main army in Skyrim ready to march south through Riften and Falkerth. Doing so, they immidiately clash with all primary armies of the Daggerfall Covenant, resulting in bloody battles where each side decimates the other on turn. See the problem yet? I'll elaborate:

    While that makes for an epic tale of two factions battling eachother to blood and gore for honor, there's three factions in ESO. While all this takes place, what do you think the Aldmeri Dominion is doing? They're naturally expanding their turf in a completely uncontested southern Cyrodil. With the Pact and Covenant at harsh struggle up north, the Dominion marches freely east and begins taking turf in Black Marsh and Morrowind - which are largely undefended since the Pact are constantly moving troops from there and north to go through Skyrim to reinforce their northern based assault. Meanwhile, the same will happen on the western front where reinforcements are easilly disrupted making Hammerfell and High Rock easy to take.

    So in the end, whom among the Pact or Daggerfall wins the battle won't matter. Their heads-on clash from Skyrim's side will have decimated them both enough to render no resistance against the Dominion.

    Instead, let's take a look at how ESO WILL play out. Naturally the Covenant and Dominion tactics won't change. Each will move in from N/W and S/W, taking land on top and bottom of Cyrodil. But here's the kicker, instead of a few months of constant grueling hands on warfare, the Pact has played smart and is advancing from Morrowind. With each of the three participating races meeting halfway they can mobilize swiftly and advance to capute eastern Cyrodil, effectively establishing an easilly reinforced power-line to serve as frontier.

    Nords are'nt stupid, they know this aswell that it would make no sense to move down from Skyrim and right into the Covenant's main force.

    Or maybe I'm overthinking it, but if anyone can see flaw with this, other than "Well the Nords would just 1-shot the covenant then 1-shot the Dominion, duh!" I'm all ears, but from a strategic point of view, that makes sense for me =)

    Edit: Why they don't just walk through Cyrodil to get to Skyrim: If you've forgotten the Intro already and that there's a reason why our armies are gathering in the first place, go watch it again and you'll go "Oh yeah, Imperials.." =)
    Last edited by Kasperio; 2013-01-29 at 08:07 PM.
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  20. #2140
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    that would be great but I don't think this is possible, although I am not a programmer I think if they design players as "obstackles" it cannot be changed so simply..maybe if they add tower shields and make these shields have the collision effect...
    I AM a programmer and I can tell you that this isn't something that would be particularly difficult to program. If they gave a character collision detection, they could toggle this property on/off in certain situations.

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