1. #2221
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasperio View Post
    Oh, Laurcus.. This is basic gameguide on the very website of the game man =/

    Source: http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/gam...e-alliance-war
    You expect me to read basic gameguide stuff? Pfft.

    Seriously though, that just sounds weird.
    If Goku's power level increases at the same rate till the end of DBGT as it does till the end of the Frieza saga, as a SS4 Goku would have a PL of roughly 939 Quinoctogintillion. For reference that is a 260 digit number. A PL of 14,600 is required to destroy an earth sized planet. There are about 2 nonillion earths worth of mass in the universe. That means SS4 Goku can destroy the universe about 32 Octosexagintillion times over. There's a reason they made Goku a god at the end of GT.

  2. #2222
    Oh God just read this tonight, interest completely gone:

    "Our world is divided into zones, and zones have borders which will have loading-times associated with them, though these borders and loads are kept to a minimum. The world is huge, and you will be able to explore anything in your alliance and in Cyrodiil, and many other places besides."

    Why do not teams get it. No MMo has come close to Wow, because no game has come close to the immersion Wow offers.

    I will say it now, and not because of this announcement but other lacklustre ones, this game will be a flash in the pan, and will fade very quickly.

    If you are going to make Elder Scrolls into MMO, get a clue/grip, you will damage the series!

  3. #2223
    Brewmaster Kasperio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    You expect me to read basic gameguide stuff? Pfft.

    Seriously though, that just sounds weird.
    Yeah, as mentioned above I can't quite wrap my head around it yet. I suppose we'll have to wait and see what happens and how they're planning on doing it before passing judgement, but I am not sure I'll like it either way. But let's not get ahead of ourselves about judging it as bad. Could be it turns out really cool.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 12:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    Oh God just read this tonight, interest completely gone:

    "Our world is divided into zones, and zones have borders which will have loading-times associated with them, though these borders and loads are kept to a minimum. The world is huge, and you will be able to explore anything in your alliance and in Cyrodiil, and many other places besides."

    Why do not teams get it. No MMo has come close to Wow, because no game has come close to the immersion Wow offers.

    I will say it now, and not because of this announcement but other lacklustre ones, this game will be a flash in the pan, and will fade very quickly.

    If you are going to make Elder Scrolls into MMO, get a clue/grip, you will damage the series!
    I will not bite, good sir, good day!
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  4. #2224
    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    Why do not teams get it. No MMo has come close to Wow, because no game has come close to the immersion Wow offers.
    I certainly disagree with this statement but I do agree about them partitioning off different areas due to their factions, I don't like it, it's not an ES game that way.

  5. #2225
    Brewmaster Kasperio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    I certainly disagree with this statement but I do agree about them partitioning off different areas due to their factions, I don't like it, it's not an ES game that way.
    Don't bother mate. His post history kinda paints a picture =)

    In other words though regarding the debate; I have to in turn disagree with you and claim that storytelling, narrative and a personal touch to the world would be diminished by freeroaming. Again backing my example from earlier in the thread by saying, imagine you're playing a Breton and you're exploring northern High Rock. You come across a Nord encampment of 10 NPC's and you're given a quest to report this to X NPC at once! On your way back to report this atrocious breach, you run across 30 Nords who're just lolling about exploring. How's that not immersion breaking?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-31 at 12:23 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    Oh God just read this tonight, interest completely gone:

    "Our world is divided into zones, and zones have borders which will have loading-times associated with them, though these borders and loads are kept to a minimum. The world is huge, and you will be able to explore anything in your alliance and in Cyrodiil, and many other places besides."

    Why do not teams get it. No MMo has come close to Wow, because no game has come close to the immersion Wow offers.

    I will say it now, and not because of this announcement but other lacklustre ones, this game will be a flash in the pan, and will fade very quickly.

    If you are going to make Elder Scrolls into MMO, get a clue/grip, you will damage the series!
    You know what, I'm sorry. It's not like me to just ignore such comments like that, so I WILL bite. If you're serious in your posts, I'll ask you to do the following:

    1: Please elaborate what teams are'nt getting what. Are we talking developer teams, programmers, studios, genre creators, storywriters? You're touching all those aspects in your statement and you'll have to be more specific.

    2: Which other announcements also bothered you to the point where you render the to become
    a flash in the pan, and will fade very quickly.
    . I'd also like confirmation on the last part.

    3: How will ZeniMax' development of the MMORPG influence Bethesdas work with the SPRPG series that we have not been informed of yet? You seem to know more about it than us so enlighten us on the subject.

    4: Aside from your personal opinion, which sources has declared WoW as the most immersive game. Evidently you pass it off as a fact, so I would like to see credible awards or even articles to support the statement. Preferably recent for verification.

    Fill those blanks and we can discuss your post and points constructively =)
    Enough with bashing eachother, guys.. This community is still young and needs to grow up and show that not everyone are jerks. We're gamers and we enjoy games, don't bash eachother over what games they like or their oppinions, but don't let them bash others either. We need to come together and stand up, as a community, and help eachother out by being respectful and understanding. Please.

  6. #2226
    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    Oh God just read this tonight, interest completely gone:

    "Our world is divided into zones, and zones have borders which will have loading-times associated with them, though these borders and loads are kept to a minimum. The world is huge, and you will be able to explore anything in your alliance and in Cyrodiil, and many other places besides."

    Why do not teams get it. No MMo has come close to Wow, because no game has come close to the immersion Wow offers.

    I will say it now, and not because of this announcement but other lacklustre ones, this game will be a flash in the pan, and will fade very quickly.

    If you are going to make Elder Scrolls into MMO, get a clue/grip, you will damage the series!
    it was an immersive game, back in vanilla and half TBC...now its just laughable to claim wow as an immersive game. You know what is immersive?to have a dangerous world to explore, to have to carry ammo and quiver with your hunter, to have to prepare your poisons as a rogue, to fight with animals and learn from them their abilities so you can then teach them to your pet, to not be able to harm the Fire lord with fire, to actually have to travel a long way in distant places rather than instant teleport there, to have a class very different from the rest and not just copy/paste abilities with different name and I can go on and on...wow in vanilla have achieved the perfect balance between a sandbox and a thempark game and it was very immersive...

    just to avoid misunderstanding, I am not saying wow is not a good game..it is very good and I currently play it, but immersive??no way..maybe just to people who never played anything else in their lifes except wow..
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2013-01-30 at 11:47 PM.
    The trick of selling a PvP-MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  7. #2227
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    it was an immersive game, back in vanilla and half TBC...now its just laughable to claim wow as an immersive game. You know what is immersive?to have a dangerous world to explore, to have to carry ammo and quiver with your hunter, to have to prepare your poisons as a rogue, to fight with animals and learn from them their abilities so you can then teach them to your pet, to not be able to harm the Fire lord with fire, to actually have to travel a long way in distant places rather than instant teleport there, to have a class very different from the rest and not just copy/paste abilities with different name and I can go on and on...wow in vanilla have achieved the perfect balance between a sandbox and a thempark game and it was very immersive...

    just to avoid misunderstanding, I am not saying wow is not a good game..it is very good and I currently play it, but immersive??no way..maybe just to people who never played anything else in their lifes except wow..
    Nostalgia would like to have a word with you about your cognitive bias.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosy_retrospection
    http://haggholm.dreamwidth.org/246918.html
    http://www.overcomingbias.com/2011/1...a-example.html
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  8. #2228
    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    it was an immersive game, back in vanilla and half TBC...now its just laughable to claim wow as an immersive game. You know what is immersive?to have a dangerous world to explore, to have to carry ammo and quiver with your hunter, to have to prepare your poisons as a rogue, to fight with animals and learn from them their abilities so you can then teach them to your pet, to not be able to harm the Fire lord with fire, to actually have to travel a long way in distant places rather than instant teleport there, to have a class very different from the rest and not just copy/paste abilities with different name and I can go on and on...wow in vanilla have achieved the perfect balance between a sandbox and a thempark game and it was very immersive...
    Pretty accurate list of everything I miss from WoW . I found DAoC to be the most immersive MMO I've played but vanilla WoW would be #2 on the list (disclaimer time; not saying vanilla was 'better' but simply found it far more immersive than the following content), although that's partially due to DAoC being my first 3D MMO.

  9. #2229
    I never really thought of WoW as an immersive game. Actually mmos are terrible, in my opinion, for being immersive due to their greatest strength, other people.

  10. #2230
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Nostalgia would like to have a word with you about your cognitive bias.
    I'm sorry but papajohn4 is dead-on. During vanilla and part of TBC the game had much more immersion than it does now. Back then there was a lot of inconvenience in the game but immersion was the upside to this. For example, now you can just teleport everywhere whereas before you had to actually walk places/take flight paths/get a zeppelin. In every subsequent update to the game they've added more portals to major cities, more flight paths, made it easier for mages and warlocks to teleport people, etc. They made it so that you can teleport to whatever city you want whenever you want rather than have to get on a boat to change continents. This makes the game more casual friendly and less time consuming but it causes you to lose that sense of scale.

    Another example is cross realm battlegrounds. Sure its great for convenience, it means you don't have to wait four hours for an Alterac Valley to happen. But now you're not playing with people on your realm that you'll recognize. You don't get that sense that its a real battle happening in Azeroth, instead you're reminded that this battle that's happening is actually just a collection of data in a server somewhere.

    Another example is how easy it is to find a dungeon these days. It used to be that I would have to make friends while questing, or ask around in Orgrimmar to do a 5-man or message my RL friends. There was an element of annoyance when you had to go out and find people to party with but this difficulty made making friends and completing a dungeon very rewarding. Now you just queue up like everything else in the game.

    Of course, I like some of the changes Blizzard has made, but in an MMO you often have to trade convenient gameplay for immersive gameplay and WoW's dev team has increasingly leaned toward the convenient side of things to try and draw in more casual players. It's why I lost interest in WoW. Sure there's some truly amazing content in the game but a lot of what made the game special at the beginning has degraded so the overall experience just isn't as satisfying as it once was.

    I really hope that the developers of TESO understand this concept, but at this point it's looking like they don't.
    Last edited by indoordinosaur; 2013-01-31 at 12:44 AM.

  11. #2231
    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    Oh God just read this tonight, interest completely gone:

    "Our world is divided into zones, and zones have borders which will have loading-times associated with them, though these borders and loads are kept to a minimum. The world is huge, and you will be able to explore anything in your alliance and in Cyrodiil, and many other places besides."

    Why do not teams get it. No MMo has come close to Wow, because no game has come close to the immersion Wow offers.

    I will say it now, and not because of this announcement but other lacklustre ones, this game will be a flash in the pan, and will fade very quickly.

    If you are going to make Elder Scrolls into MMO, get a clue/grip, you will damage the series!
    I guess you dont understand these games server structure and what works best with their design. Even WoW has Seperated zones they are just alot bigger. Load screens dont kill immersion imo. Especially for an elderscrolls game which each dungeon, fort, shop, house, etc has a load screen.

  12. #2232
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Nostalgia would like to have a word with you about your cognitive bias.
    I'm sorry but papajohn4 is dead-on. During vanilla and part of TBC the game had much more immersion than it does now. Back then there was a lot of inconvenience in the game but immersion was the upside to this. For example, now you can just teleport everywhere whereas before you had to actually walk places/take flight paths/get a zeppelin. In every subsequent update to the game they've added more portals to major cities, more flight paths, made it easier for mages and warlocks to teleport people, etc. They made it so that you can teleport to whatever city you want whenever you want rather than have to get on a boat to change continents. This makes the game more casual friendly and less time consuming but it causes you to lose that sense of scale.

    Another example is cross realm battlegrounds. Sure its great for convenience, it means you don't have to wait four hours for an Alterac Valley to happen. But now you're not playing with people on your realm that you'll recognize. You don't get that sense that its a real battle happening in Azeroth, instead you're reminded that this battle that's happening is actually just a collection of data in a server somewhere.

    Another example is how easy it is to find a dungeon these days. It used to be that I would have to make friends while questing, or ask around in Orgrimmar to do a 5-man or message my RL friends. There was an element of annoyance when you had to go out and find people to party with but this difficulty made making friends and completing a dungeon very rewarding. Now you just queue up like everything else in the game.

    Of course, I like some of the changes Blizzard has made, but in an MMO you often have to trade convenient gameplay for immersive gameplay and WoW's dev team has increasingly leaned toward the convenient side of things to try and draw in more casual players. It's why I lost interest in WoW. Sure there's some truly amazing content in the game but a lot of what made the game special at the beginning has slowly eroded. The sandbox type PvP encounters, making new friendships when looking for a 5man, the sense that the game world is seamless and enormous, being forced to explore an area that you would've otherwise passed over. These are all things that help you get sucked into the game that have been lost because new WoW emphasizes convenience over immersion.

    I really hope that the developers of TESO understand this concept, but at this point it's looking like they don't.

  13. #2233
    You know fans are becoming fanatics when they start to defend loading times between zones...
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  14. #2234
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    You know fans are becoming fanatics when they start to defend loading times between zones...
    That's a staple of the Elder Scrolls games, though. Isn't that what you are complaining about? They keep at least one thing from the single player game (loading screens) and you complain about it.

    Honestly, having loading screens between zones is shitty, and annoying as hell in the single player games. I just hope that every door I open doesn't pop off into a loading screen.

  15. #2235
    Stood in the Fire NickCageFanatic's Avatar
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    Immersion is anything that makes the game feel like its a real place and you are really there.

    Anything that makes the game seem fake takes away from the immersion.

    Auto Teleports, can to some extent, take away from the immersion.
    Homogenization of every class takes away from the immersion.
    Routines such as preparing for combat (prepping poisons, potions, foods, repairing armor and weapons) adds to the immersion.

    With everything that adds to immersion, also takes away from convenience.
    Do you really want to have to farm your mats to make your poisons to tip your arrows so you can preform at peak levels in game? Probably not...Its much simpler to most to just hit the button that "magically" gives all your arrows poisoned tips.

    What is key is to determine the correct balance of Immersion vs. Convenience too much of one or the other with a lack of the opposite is a bad thing for any RPG. Thus it is critical for an MMORPG to get the balance correct or else be classified as just an MMO.

  16. #2236
    Quote Originally Posted by Nirawen View Post
    Pretty accurate list of everything I miss from WoW . I found DAoC to be the most immersive MMO I've played but vanilla WoW would be #2 on the list (disclaimer time; not saying vanilla was 'better' but simply found it far more immersive than the following content), although that's partially due to DAoC being my first 3D MMO.

    I can pretty much agree with this, only I'll admit half these kids probably don't even know what DAoC is... I can say if the Raiding we're better and not a 50-100 person lag run... I'd probably still be playing Dark Age... it had hands down THE BEST Pvp system in any game, amazing Worlds, I liked the Artifact Gear you could level with you like the pheonix feather cloak... and as the previous user said with WoW... vanilla and half TBC was super good, I remember no mounts until 40, gods knows I hated running everywhere, but it made you appreciate the landscape more...

    Amazing Sig by Eis!

  17. #2237
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    You know fans are becoming fanatics when they start to defend loading times between zones...
    Why is that inherently bad though?

    Don't get me wrong, I love games like WoW and Rift that have seemeless continents, but I really don't see a big issue with a loading time between zones. I can't say I've ever experienced a loading screen between a zone and gone, "Man, this totally breaks my flow."

  18. #2238
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    Why is that inherently bad though?

    Don't get me wrong, I love games like WoW and Rift that have seemeless continents, but I really don't see a big issue with a loading time between zones. I can't say I've ever experienced a loading screen between a zone and gone, "Man, this totally breaks my flow."
    I have. Skyrim, as amazing as it is, really loses immersion due to all the loading screens even on a high end pc where they last for .1 milliseconds. The fact that it's single player and that it is whatever you make of it allows you to get over it very quickly.

    Having it in an MMO where the entire point of the world is to be enormous and seamless (as the outdoors of any Elder Scrolls game already is) is hitting themselves hard. An MMO is too wide and expansive for your immersion to be utterly annihilated by loading screens between zones. And I wouldn't doubt that loading screens will be longer than ever simply to the nature of MMO's being more massive than any single player game by default.

    I did call it though. I knew that with blocked off territories for different factions they'd have to have loading screens.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-01-31 at 03:47 AM.
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  19. #2239
    Scarab Lord Buckwald's Avatar
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    It doesn't really bother me either way. Yeah I'd prefer no load times, but oh well. I'm still going to play it as will 99% of the people complaining.

  20. #2240
    Quote Originally Posted by Buckwald View Post
    It doesn't really bother me either way. Yeah I'd prefer no load times, but oh well. I'm still going to play it as will 99% of the people complaining.
    Oh no, there's no doubt I'll play it. The question though is, will I stick with it?
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

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