[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Edge-]

Hey guys, a reminder to keep it civil. Much of the discussion going on right now is speculation, so let's not go after each other please.

[Flaks]

I have two ideas on why they're doing what they're doing:

1. They're going out of their way to set expectations fairly low. No uber hype that's going to be impossible to meet.

2. They're going for a non-subscription model where they can still have regularly added content. To do so they're keeping the single player aspect of the ES series alive by completely instancing the main quest.

[fizzbob]

Hey guys, a reminder to keep it civil. Much of the discussion going on right now is speculation, so let's not go after each other please.

wish you guys had the balls to get rid of posts that directly contradict what we know so far. that's not speculation, that's either blatant lies or ignorance due to refusing to read what has been released

[Drakhar]

snip

Thank you for that thoughtful commentary that rebutted exactly 0 of my points.

Besides proving that you did not raid at a high level in EQ, all you have shown is that you are all over the place and love strawman arguments. I didn't realize that my point was that I want to play a 13 year old game, or that somehow such a game would be well received in today's market, thank you for bringing this to my attention. Most of what you said is common sense, but since you clearly need things spelled out for you: mechanics were simpler years ago than they are now because - o no wai - they didn't have the technology to do anything complicated. It would seem graphics have also improved over the years. You don't say? I'm not even sure what you're trying to discuss here.

I'm not someone who dwells in nostalgialand, I remember how much EQ and Vanilla WoW sucked, and I remember all of the reasons why. But I also remember what aspects made them good. And I'm the one being told to gtfo, lawl.

[Edge-]

wish you guys had the balls to get rid of posts that directly contradict what we know so far. that's not speculation, that's either blatant lies or ignorance due to refusing to read what has been released

That's people being uninformed generally, which happens with games that don't have a ton of info out. Feel free to correct them if they're wrong. If you think they are intentionally spreading misinformation to try and bait others though, please report them so mods can deal with it.

[Deleted]

Clearly third person provides better FOV, that's why I want a MMO designed around first person, because you'll always be putting yourself at a disadvantage by being in first person when both options are available. I understand that this game was designed with third person in mind from the beginning, which is why this whole discussion isn't all that high on my priority list for ESO specifically, just something I'd like to see and only slightly related. As you suggested, it's a whole new level of immersion from first person.

FPS and MMO are traditionally opposites, but have grown towards each other in the past decenium with ARPG on MMO side (such non-turn based, skill shots), and FPS getting MMO features (such as XP, leveling). But I just don't see 3rd person work well in FPS because the aim would be bad. If you were to make MMORPG first person, it'd be more akin to a FPS with MMORPG features (or a 50/50 mix perhaps, I guess it also depends on your viewpoint, importance/weight on feature, and plain good ol' bias) with lots of skillshots. Ranged, I can envision it, but melee, you wouldn't be able to see shit unless you use huge monitor. I mean is anyone playing AC in first person? Maybe with 3D glasses it'd provide the ultimate immersion as if you're in VR.

[derpkitteh]

I have two ideas on why they're doing what they're doing:

1. They're going out of their way to set expectations fairly low. No uber hype that's going to be impossible to meet.

2. They're going for a non-subscription model where they can still have regularly added content. To do so they're keeping the single player aspect of the ES series alive by completely instancing the main quest.

i'm kinda glad that i get bal to myself. i hate him so much... he's the most disgusting thing ever, i'd give anything to go god mode and just erase the sick fuck from existence >.>

[Drakhar]

If you were to make MMORPG first person, it'd be more akin to a FPS with MMORPG features.

That's just the thing, 3rd person is NOT inherent to MMORPGs. It's just another point in a long list of features that people have been conditioned to expect simply because it's in WoW. I don't know how many times I have to say it, EQ was designed in 1st person, and worked just fine. It's funny how WoW has simultaneously done so many great and so many terrible things to this genre and its players over the years.

[Deleted]

That's just the thing, 3rd person is NOT inherent to MMORPGs. It's just another point in a long list of features that people have been conditioned to expect simply because it's in WoW. I don't know how many times I have to say it, EQ was designed in 1st person, and worked just fine. It's funny how WoW has simultaneously done so many great and so many terrible things to this genre and its players over the years.

Given we're so used to it being 3rd person and we have a FOV of more than 120 degrees and are able to also look behind us and in greater distance, and also given my comment about melee combat, it does make sense MMORPGs are third person because we got used to this and prefer this.

I can't remember the last non FPS game I played which was first person (as in the intended playstyle is first person). It was likely some kind of adventure. But apart from that it was always imagination (PnP), top (like MUD, RTS), side (like platform) or bird flight (3rd person) with the exception of FPS games. Sure, some got MMO features, or even puzzles, but I found those quite cumbersome in hindsight compared to 3rd person games.

Perhaps you could post a good video of EQ which shows your example.

[Achaman]

Eh, SWTOR had amazing cinematic trailers too.

so does wow and rift and eve... aka EVERYONE!

[vizzle]

so does wow and rift and eve... aka EVERYONE!

Hokay? Not sure what you're trying to say by this, I think you missed the point I was making.

[Achaman]

Next up: Dragon Age or Fallout MMO.

I do hope this game will succeed, but from previous experiences, I doubt it : <

a fallout mmo already exists its called fallen earth

[Zeek Daniels]

That's just the thing, 3rd person is NOT inherent to MMORPGs. It's just another point in a long list of features that people have been conditioned to expect simply because it's in WoW. I don't know how many times I have to say it, EQ was designed in 1st person, and worked just fine. It's funny how WoW has simultaneously done so many great and so many terrible things to this genre and its players over the years.

I like 3rd person much more than first person especially in an MMO. Whats the point of creating a cool looking character when you cant even see them. Whats the point in having cool looking armor when the only time you see it is during cutscenes. Also First person view make the user feel like he is inside the game. It makes it feel like your the one pulling the trigger on that gun, or your the one slashing with that sword. 3rd person view makes the user feel like he is in total control of a character in a game. Where instead of being the character like first person, you get to control the character like a puppet.

For Rpgs i like to See my character.

[Deleted]

3rd person makes you feel like you're a puppet, first person makes you feel like it is you who is experiencing it. Especially if you add more realism in the terms of a huge 50" screen or VR glasses.

Thing is, there was a time where the look of gear was archaic and irrelevant. In MUD and rogue RPG for example your character is denoted by one symbol. So at some point (and I don't know when or where exactly), (MMO)RPGs started to care not only about stats 'n all that but also about their looks. I suppose WoW was the one who popularized this. Why though? Its like a fashion statement, a way to differentiate oneself from another. In single player nobody would pay 10 EUR for cinder kitten or 3 EUR for a broom.

[Deleted]

That's people being uninformed generally, which happens with games that don't have a ton of info out. Feel free to correct them if they're wrong. If you think they are intentionally spreading misinformation to try and bait others though, please report them so mods can deal with it.

I don't think anyone are intentionally spreading misinformation. I think it's more that we're dealing with, as you said, a stage where most debate will be based on vague hints or speculation. And in addition, we're dealing with an IP which ALOT of people know of and expect alot of things from and an MMO which alot of people wish they could pour their own recipes to success into and vocally disagree when something they would not do is done, or something they would do is not.

So I don't think anyone are intentionally misinforming eachother, mostly just biased views in regards to announcements which leads to accidental misinformation and biased speculation. But it's nice to know you guys do listen anyways.

OT: Regarding the First Person View, I believe there was a video on E3 showing an Archer with his bow drawn (However not taking any shots) in first person view where the bow was clearly visible. Ofcourse that means absolutely nothing at this point but it's worth considering that they might go ahead with that since they already have it developed. Generally, a company will try to avoid developing away from something that works already, for better or worse. We'll have to wait and see =)

Atleast one thing is confirmed; First person is atleast available. Weither or not it'll be as viable as 3rd person, how 3rd person "Look to target" will work and such is still just speculation.

[Valeron]

Just a quick question, is the combat tab-target, fps style (hit what is in front of you), or a hybrid like GW2 is.

[Deleted]

Just a quick question, is the combat tab-target, fps style (hit what is in front of you), or a hybrid like GW2 is.

As far as I know they are going with the same formula as the TES games, "fps style", but since they apparently will introduce aim-assist on ranged it might still be up in the air.

[rav1410]

I was thinking if they could add a feature like the hardcore mode in diablo 3 and when you die you go to Sovngarde where your character stay there for ever and you meet other players and compete with mini games , that would be nice

[Okacz]

I like 3rd person much more than first person especially in an MMO. Whats the point of creating a cool looking character when you cant even see them. Whats the point in having cool looking armor when the only time you see it is during cutscenes. Also First person view make the user feel like he is inside the game. It makes it feel like your the one pulling the trigger on that gun, or your the one slashing with that sword. 3rd person view makes the user feel like he is in total control of a character in a game. Where instead of being the character like first person, you get to control the character like a puppet.

For Rpgs i like to See my character.

Well, it worked pretty damn well in Skyrim for me. For every little piece of equipment you wear you got stronger and stronger, and you felt it. You didn't always have to look on your characters armored ass until you puke with mythril and dragon scales, instead you feel the awesomeness of the gear you carry. I remember sometimes, when I finished smithing a new set of armor for myself, I put it on and switch to TPP, just for a few seconds of appreciations, then go back to FPP. I know how awesome I am right now, with this armor - and im not forced to wear it forever.

I kinda feel sad about this MMO. The thing is, when I've heard about it, I immidiately thought about a few things:

-FPP combat making multiplayer fights feel like an experiance, not a calculation and macro mashing
-Immerse world, where you are only a pawn, but still can do everything as a pawn
-Great dose of interactivity with every item and npc, with crime system and pickpocketing, maybe limited, but still existing at some kind

Yep - those are really the things I thought about as "this is going to be awesome" thoughts about this game. And every single of those seems to be wrong right now. But hope dies at the very end, so I gonna beta the living shit out of this game (hopefully) and most certainly buy it and experiance for a while, whatever it will turn out to be.

[Pachycrocuta]

-FPP combat making multiplayer fights feel like an experiance, not a calculation and macro mashing
-Immerse world, where you are only a pawn, but still can do everything as a pawn
-Great dose of interactivity with every item and npc, with crime system and pickpocketing, maybe limited, but still existing at some kind

-You can still fight in first person view. They are keeping that in there. Whether or not it will be a detriment (at least in pvp) is yet to be seen.
-It will be about as immersive as Skyrim is with its limited size and massive amounts of loading screens.
- From videos I have seen, and overall talk about the game, they are apparently going to allow you to interact with all the items you could in Skyrim (crap on tables, shelves, floors), and possibly be able to take them. Just no pickpocketing, and quite possibly no crime system. Because honestly, a crime system would not work at all in an MMORPG if you are referring to what they have in Skyrim. It is impossible to do. Why, you might ask? Because in the single player games, you can advance time as you see fit, and the crime system takes this into account (not being able to pay your fine lands you in jail and a number of days pass in the blink of an eye). You cannot skip forward in time in an MMORPG due to it being a persistant world with hundreds upon thousands of people existing in the world at the same time as you.