[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Tackhisis]

But don't generalize anything here. We don't know quite a lot about this game yet, NDA is still active and the only sources of informations are articles in gaming-magazines/hompages and the stuff zenimax publishes.
And that's by far not enough information to form a profunded opinion about this game yet.

The site states it's 'coming 2013'.

It is GW2 story all over again: people will cover their eyes and ears hoping that at this time the failed concept will work. The truth is that there's no rabbit in a hat.

[blackyfrost]

Because winning a fair fight against another player is rewarding?
If you aren't going to pvp without a gear grind then you probably don't like pvp.

you want an FPS or an MMO
the point of an MMO is for every second you spend to be a step toward a more powerful character, a quality MMO can't exist in any other way.
when you know people are progressing their toons and you're not logged in, you want to log in. you don't take days or weeks or months off because you know you'll get behind

there should be a way to close the gap, but not completely. if you fall behind you should be behind for the season/tier.
this all goes back to what i said about how a lot of you guys don't like MMOs and don't wanna play games, you want to waste time but refuse to just stick to what's currently available and there are enough of you that you're fucking up the whole genre.

thanks for that

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 07:30 PM ----------

There's no "handouts" where pvp is concerned because the "working towards something" in pvp comes from you becoming a better player and beating others.

If you want to work towards something like gear so bad then pve is for you. Leave that bullshit out of pvp because there's plenty other, more tangible, more important aspects to pvp than gearing. The gearing aspect of MMO's has NO place whatsoever in pvp. MMO's are definitely based around working towards something but when it comes to pvp, that something shouldn't be gear because it goes against what pvp is.

Would you be happy if in starcraft you were forced to play for at least a month before you could play against gold level players based SOLELY on the fact that those gold level players were able to make roaches and you were still stuck with only zerglings? In SCII campaign this is perfectly fine. On the ladder? Yea hell no.

you shouldn't be able to pop in and out as you please and be on the same playing field as the people who play daily.

what is the point of playing daily then?

[RoninaThorstone]

you want an FPS or an MMO
the point of an MMO is for every second you spend to be a step toward a more powerful character, a quality MMO can't exist in any other way.
when you know people are progressing their toons and you're not logged in, you want to log in. you don't take days or weeks or months off because you know you'll get behind

there should be a way to close the gap, but not completely. if you fall behind you should be behind for the season/tier.
this all goes back to what i said about how a lot of you guys don't like MMOs and don't wanna play games, you want to waste time but refuse to just stick to what's currently available and there are enough of you that you're fucking up the whole genre.

thanks for that

Your welcome.

I am glad that there's enough of us that many MMOs have embraced normalization, or at least have begun considering it.

Also, any MMO designed around crushing new players is far from 'quality'

[vizzle]

The site states it's 'coming 2013'.

It is GW2 story all over again: people will cover their eyes and ears hoping that at this time the failed concept will work. The truth is that there's no rabbit in a hat.

What failed concept? First you come in here listing aspects of the game (and negative things that you haven't proven) and say that it's an easy money grab, then you come saying this. Explain your previous post or please just don't even post in this thread, because right now you're nothing but an aggregator.

[RoninaThorstone]

you shouldn't be able to pop in and out as you please and be on the same playing field as the people who play daily.

what is the point of playing daily then?

Again, if the game isn't 'fun' enough to play it daily without offering some unnecessary advantage, it probably isn't a quality game.
The point of playing a game should be to enjoy playing it, not stomping people because you have X more stats than them.

[blackyfrost]

Your welcome.

I am glad that there's enough of us that many MMOs have embraced normalization, or at least have begun considering it.

Also, any MMO designed around crushing new players is far from 'quality'

it's not normalization. it's calling something that isn't an MMORPG an MMORPG
if you don't crush new players you aren't rewarding old players. if an MMO doesn't make you want to skip work to play, it's failed. you should feel like every day you don't log in, you've fallen behind.

when you play a sport, you dedicate yourself to it for months at a time. you fuck less because you gotta practice free throws. you go to bed earlier because you got a 4 hour practice sunday morning.

if you don't enjoy the reward after work, you DO NOT LIKE MMORPGs
coin a new term. call them what they are, MMOFBG (massively multiplayer online facebook games)

calling it an mmo and letting people slack is selling out. swtor did that, you play swtor?

[Flaks]

One way or another, it seems like Zenimax disagrees with you blackyfrost because as far as we've seen, they're even going to let lower level players get their stats boosted enough to compete with the max level players in Cyrodiil.

"OH you're not spending 23 hours a day to stay on top of your game. YOU FAIL!" Yea I'm pretty sure we started moving away from that mentality when the genre stepped outside of the 30 year olds' basements...which was basically as soon as the genre began.

[vizzle]

One way or another, it seems like Zenimax disagrees with you blackyfrost because as far as we've seen, they're even going to let lower level players get their stats boosted enough to compete with the max level players.

But to what extent? Just like TOR, where lower level players are boosted up to the equivalent of newly-dinged 50s? The older players will still outgear them (which I'm not saying is a bad thing or a good thing, I don't want to take a side in this). Just because they're being boosted up doesn't mean they're going to be equals.

[blackyfrost]

One way or another, it seems like Zenimax disagrees with you blackyfrost because as far as we've seen, they're even going to let lower level players get their stats boosted enough to compete with the max level players.

that has nothing to do with anything. boost the stats all you want, just don't mail people gear to help them catch up and don't have a gear gap so damn huge that playing catchup isn't fun

wow's catch-up rate is fine, it's a few casual days from naked to full mal right now. the gear gap is the problem. 6 ilvls at 90 is impossible to overcome

you folks don't want to compete, you want to not lose

if you guys REALLY wanted easy, you'd be so busy with things in wow that you'd not be interested in the next big MMO. we're all here because we're not completely happy with what we have

[Flaks]

But to what extent? Just like TOR, where lower level players are boosted up to the equivalent of newly-dinged 50s? The older players will still outgear them (which I'm not saying is a bad thing or a good thing, I don't want to take a side in this). Just because they're being boosted up doesn't mean they're going to be equals.

This all goes along with how much time they're actually willing to spend on pvp. Which to me sounds like it will be a fuckton.

[RoninaThorstone]

it's not normalization. it's calling something that isn't an MMORPG an MMORPG
if you don't crush new players you aren't rewarding old players. if an MMO doesn't make you want to skip work to play, it's failed. you should feel like every day you don't log in, you've fallen behind.

when you play a sport, you dedicate yourself to it for months at a time. you fuck less because you gotta practice free throws. you go to bed earlier because you got a 4 hour practice sunday morning.

if you don't enjoy the reward after work, you DO NOT LIKE MMORPGs
coin a new term. call them what they are, MMOFBG (massively multiplayer online facebook games)

calling it an mmo and letting people slack is selling out. swtor did that, you play swtor?

And WoW, Rift, Tera, Firefall, Lotro, Aoc, and a few others that you wouldn't consider MMOs but are called MMOs.

Sorry, but your narrow view of what constitutes an MMO is not shared by enough people that you get to keep the term.
So how about you come up with a term for what you like, maybe something like "time not skill MMOs" TNSmmos for short.

[Flaks]

that has nothing to do with anything. boost the stats all you want, just don't mail people gear to help them catch up and don't have a gear gap so damn huge that playing catchup isn't fun

wow's catch-up rate is fine, it's a few casual days from naked to full mal right now. the gear gap is the problem. 6 ilvls at 90 is impossible to overcome

you folks don't want to compete, you want to not lose

if you guys REALLY wanted easy, you'd be so busy with things in wow that you'd not be interested in the next big MMO. we're all here because we're not completely happy with what we have

This has to do with EVERYTHING. If they're willing to say that "we want to make an even playing field for all" it means that gear discrepancies will not be there. Like I said, you want to gear? Go play PvE. You want to play an epic tug of war between 3 factions for ruling the center of Tamriel where the only deciding factors are skill and class tools? Come to PvP.

This game NEEDS its own identity. You're wanting it to utilize ideals set up with WoW. Ideals that HAVE to be moved away from to move the MMO genre forward.

[vizzle]

You know what would be interesting? Since they're doing the realm-within-realms thing, the extreme phasing so you're playing with like-minded people? They could have phases where your gear does matter, and phases where everyone is just boosted up to X stats. Put those people on different leaderboards too (if they have leaderboards).

[blackyfrost]

This has to do with EVERYTHING. If they're willing to say that "we want to make an even playing field for all" it means that gear discrepancies will not be there. Like I said, you want to gear? Go play PvE. You want to play an epic tug of war between 3 factions for ruling the center of Tamriel where the only deciding factors are skill and class tools? Come to PvP.

This game NEEDS its own identity. You're wanting it to utilize ideals set up with WoW. Ideals that HAVE to be moved away from to move the MMO genre forward.

you are equating a temporary stat boost to a level playing field. for that to be true gear can't be a factor AT ALL and then you have a dead game. there has to be a gear grind. there has to be a dangling carrot.

and for the 50th time, wow didn't establish all these MMO ideals, they all copied them from EQ, UO, DAOC, etc

there is no possible way to make an MMO unique, just like you can't write a story about elves that is unique. you're influenced by something and it will show. the guys working on this are influenced too. blizz was influenced VERY heavily by EQ.

they are already establishing an identity with the server tech, the true first person view, the combat style, the lore itself is unique
the game won't last long and won't generate enough money to matter if they cater to the folks with no attention span. fuck a 2,000,000 sub launch that is 10% of that in 3 months. you failed if that's what happens

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 07:57 PM ----------

You know what would be interesting? Since they're doing the realm-within-realms thing, the extreme phasing so you're playing with like-minded people? They could have phases where your gear does matter, and phases where everyone is just boosted up to X stats. Put those people on different leaderboards too (if they have leaderboards).

a separate "not really MMO pvp" bracket would be fine, but just like how people who hate world pvp roll on pvp servers because of the "sissy boy PVE server" stigma, people would play in the bracket they can't compete in right off the bat and whine

hell in firefall pvp it's not heavily gear dependent but the first week it was available people were crying about aimbots when a sniper popped them from a long ways off

nobody likes to lose

[RoninaThorstone]

hell in firefall pvp it's not heavily gear dependent

In 2 days it will be completely gear independent.
Accord stock only. No printed or astrek / omi. And the suits "for pvp" will be adjusted separately from the rest of the game. So if X ability does too much damage in pvp, the pvp suits X ability will be reduced by Y% but remain untouched in the pve suit.
Normalization. No gear advantage.

[Nirawen]

it's not normalization. it's calling something that isn't an MMORPG an MMORPG
if you don't crush new players you aren't rewarding old players. if an MMO doesn't make you want to skip work to play, it's failed. you should feel like every day you don't log in, you've fallen behind.

when you play a sport, you dedicate yourself to it for months at a time. you fuck less because you gotta practice free throws. you go to bed earlier because you got a 4 hour practice sunday morning.

if you don't enjoy the reward after work, you DO NOT LIKE MMORPGs
coin a new term. call them what they are, MMOFBG (massively multiplayer online facebook games)

calling it an mmo and letting people slack is selling out. swtor did that, you play swtor?

While I personally prefer unforgiving pvp-focused skill-rewarding MMO's I can't help but think you're getting your preferences for MMO's mixed up with what actually constitutes an MMO, a persons drive to play the game has nothing to do with it. You may prefer that, so do I, but there's nothing wrong with casual MMO's for casual players. You can't say someone doesn't like them just because they dont share your method of enjoyment .

[Remilia]

You know what would be interesting? Since they're doing the realm-within-realms thing, the extreme phasing so you're playing with like-minded people? They could have phases where your gear does matter, and phases where everyone is just boosted up to X stats. Put those people on different leaderboards too (if they have leaderboards).

Phase people in NG+ with NG+ people? or something? Probably might help.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 06:23 PM ----------

there is no possible way to make an MMO unique, just like you can't write a story about elves that is unique. you're influenced by something and it will show. the guys working on this are influenced too. blizz was influenced VERY heavily by EQ.

Sure you can, my story of elves are they are 100 foot colossis that look like monkey.

the game won't last long and won't generate enough money to matter if they cater to the folks with no attention span. fuck a 2,000,000 sub launch that is 10% of that in 3 months. you failed if that's what happens

Uhh... I don't really care for the game as I'm looking forward to something else, but... we won't know how it goes until game play. We can get all these ideas, new tech, story, etc etc, but in the end implementation is the key.

we're all here because we're not completely happy with what we have

I'm just bored.

it's not normalization. it's calling something that isn't an MMORPG an MMORPG
if you don't crush new players you aren't rewarding old players. if an MMO doesn't make you want to skip work to play, it's failed. you should feel like every day you don't log in, you've fallen behind.

Wat.

when you play a sport, you dedicate yourself to it for months at a time. you fuck less because you gotta practice free throws. you go to bed earlier because you got a 4 hour practice sunday morning.

if you don't enjoy the reward after work, you DO NOT LIKE MMORPGs
coin a new term. call them what they are, MMOFBG (massively multiplayer online facebook games)

calling it an mmo and letting people slack is selling out. swtor did that, you play swtor?

Holy crap false equivalency. Comparing things to other things outside of it's own genre is just terrible.

the point of an MMO is for every second you spend to be a step toward a more powerful character, a quality MMO can't exist in any other way.

Your definition of MMO is heavily skewed by your own preference.

when you know people are progressing their toons and you're not logged in, you want to log in. you don't take days or weeks or months off because you know you'll get behind

Don't speak for others.

this all goes back to what i said about how a lot of you guys don't like MMOs and don't wanna play games, you want to waste time but refuse to just stick to what's currently available and there are enough of you that you're fucking up the whole genre.

The whole point is to be different...? or is that odd.

shouldn't be able to pop in and out as you please and be on the same playing field as the people who play daily.

what is the point of playing daily then?

PvP isn't PvP when it's curb stomping. Curb stomping psychologically destroys people's will to further play a game, making it an even deader game as you so speak. Losing because you're not skilled is different than being one shotted because you can't control it. If you're more skilled, you win, if not, you lose. I've always been an advocate of skill > gear, cause in the end if gear is all that matters, then artificial difficulty is all that is presented.

[zito]

This thread

it's going places

..
...
...

like the toilet.

Please post constructively. Infracted. -Edge

[blackyfrost]

Phase people in NG+ with NG+ people? or something? Probably might help.

---------- Post added 2013-03-20 at 06:23 PM ----------

Sure you can, my story of elves are they are 100 foot colossis that look like monkey.
Uhh... I don't really care for the game as I'm looking forward to something else, but... we won't know how it goes until game play. We can get all these ideas, new tech, story, etc etc, but in the end implementation is the key.
I'm just bored.
Wat.
Holy crap false equivalency. Comparing things to other things outside of it's own genre is just terrible.
Your definition of MMO is heavily skewed by your own preference.
Don't speak for others.
The whole point is to be different...? or is that odd.

PvP isn't PvP when it's curb stomping. Curb stomping psychologically destroys people's will to further play a game, making it an even deader game as you so speak. Losing because you're not skilled is different than being one shotted because you can't control it. If you're more skilled, you win, if not, you lose. I've always been an advocate of skill > gear, cause in the end if gear is all that matters, then artificial difficulty is all that is presented.

quoting every sentence and replying in a snarky, immature way like that shows your true colors. keep the trolling out of this thread. you're a moderator, act like one

ON TOPIC, lack of a gear grind and character progression makes it NOT an MMO, even if it's just PVP

[zito]

you're a moderator, act like one

Provoking a moderator contradicts your... "request"