1. #3401
    More than likely this game will be BTP with cash shop. The sub fee system is pretty much a dying thing with very very few holdouts. Even Eve, which is a sub based game, has a ftp system that works very well. WoW, the biggest sub based game, has been on a slow but steady decline now for a couple of years is really the only true sub based game holdout along with rift. I think that the BTP system of of the GWs title and even the FTP system of Tera are going to be how games will launch from now on. Launching as a sub based game these days is just really shooting your game down before it starts.

    I do feel there can be a successful sub game release, but its not going to be a game that is playing rehash the current gaming models that are out now. The thing is with games like GW2(BTP) World of Tanks(FTP) and most recently Tera's(went from sub to FTP) success, it only fuels the demise of sub based gaming even more.
    Last edited by Gsara; 2013-03-23 at 05:38 AM.

  2. #3402
    i think you have to be mentally insane to WANT to pay a sub
    they really fucked you guys up and made you believe that subs = more content
    or that they need your sub to turn a profit

    that's all horseshit. fuck blizz has only gotten the $15 subs per month from about half its subs over the years. they make more money on these microtransactions now, especially with all the free weeks they're giving away during MOP

  3. #3403
    Scarab Lord Lothaeryn's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Maryland, U.S.
    Posts
    4,588
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurcus View Post
    I actually think it's more of a turn off for me when pvp has rewards. If that makes any sense.

    I played Halo 2 for years. Had over 30k kills just in ranked playlists, thousands of games. I also played Gears of War pretty hardcore as well, getting over 7k kills. In both of those games you really didn't get rewards for playing, other than rank in Halo 2. I've given many other multiplayer games a fair chance, but I haven't been able to get into any of the "grinding" multiplayer games like CoD or even wow's pvp. Even if the game is fun, there's just something about the mindset that I get into where the game becomes all about points and it just stops being fun.

    Maybe I'm extremely weird, but it's like I start playing the game only for useless things like levels or points or whatever, then I think to myself, what's the damn point, playing the game is about the experience, not grinding. Then suddenly I just can't seem to give a fuck about the game. Like I said, I'm weird.
    You described what a Skinnerbox does almost in a verbatim for first person experience.

    WoW's model for endgame and CoD's model for multiplayer is designed around the skinnerbox method of thought, they reward the player with something to compel them into repeating the process continually, which is like giving a mouse cheese for pushing a button.

    Positive reinforcement is what compels players to countlessly grind away hours of their time for artificial reward that augments their character in some form or fashion, and most MMO's currently suffer in their endgame because they try and execute a skinnerbox model but fail miserably at doing so.

    The reason why I left WoW is because the skinnerbox model was becoming more and more prevalent in gameplay, grinding gear for PvE/PvP was more important in the development of the game than the actual gameplay itself.

    Oddly enough I am Playing Planetside 2 for the most part that also has a skinnerbox model, but its not as prevalent enough that it hinders the gameplay for me to enjoy it. Outfit teamwork and community definitely buffer the problem for me.
    Fod Sparta los wuth, ahrk okaaz gekenlok kruziik himdah, dinok fent kos rozol do daan wah jer do Samos. Ahrk haar do Heracles fent motaad, fah strunmah vonun fent yolein ko yol
    .

  4. #3404
    Quote Originally Posted by blackyfrost View Post
    gw/gw2 has been proving that wrong for 8 years
    b2p is perfectly fine, generates more than enough profit to run the game and you have the option of spending money on vanity items
    subs are just a cockblock these days. it's a mentality that people have. they feel they get what they pay for, but you are paying for it either way. b2p, you really do get what you pay for

    the way swtor has done it is fucked up and just awful in every way. gw/gw2 did it perfectly

    Well, if only GW/GW2 weren't such boring pieces of garbage you might have a point. Despite GW2 being "free" after purchase nobody plays anymore even after they paid for it. Sure, you might, and a few other die-hards might, but GW2 is dead now it is a fact. I think the B2P model just makes them blow their wad on hype and initial launch and then say "screw it why bother investing to fix it" while games that require a subscription feel they need to earn your loyalty month after month after month.

    I personally could care less about the price of a game as long as it is good. Charge me $1000 for a uber game and I'll play it. I'm bling bling money is no object when it comes to games. What I want is quality and B2P for MMO's unfortunately doesn't really result in quality but overhyped garbage like GW2. Subscription games can suck too but there has yet to be a good B2P MMO. Eve Online still charges and they constantly innovate. GW2 is half-assing a garbage game and won't really invest in improving the boringness of it until the next paid release, you can bet on it.

    Bling bling!

  5. #3405
    You are doing it wrong if you pay a monthly fee in Eve after the trial upgrade, unless you have like 5+ accounts. I do agree that GW2 is boring, but I dont think its dead and failing by any means.
    Last edited by Gsara; 2013-03-23 at 06:15 AM.

  6. #3406
    Quote Originally Posted by gainesvilleg View Post
    Bling bling!
    The 90's want their bling back

  7. #3407
    Quote Originally Posted by Gsara View Post
    You are doing it wrong if you pay a monthly fee in Eve after the trial upgrade, unless you have like 5+ accounts. I do agree that GW2 is boring, but I dont think its dead and failing by any means.
    You are correct on veterans not paying for Eve anymore. I actually don't play it anymore myself so I'm not insulted by your implied dig, but factually it is still funded by subscriptions primarily. Noobs tend to pay more than average (via subscription plus PLEX purchase with $$) while vets tend to pay nothing (via buying PLEX with ISK). Many vets can fund multiple accounts easily. But the fact is it innovates still and can still demand a monthly fee. Even if vets can more than earn enough to mitigate the monthly fee. In fact, part of the innovation of EVE is that very fact. You become successful in EVE you play for free.

    And I'm not saying MMOs should all be like EVE, but I do think the better MMOs tend to be able to support monthly fees, which also inherently drive better customer service and updates in order to keep their business. I'm not a big fan of F2P or B2P when it comes to MMOs because I want to have my $$ hanging over the developers heads, ensuring they still work for me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 02:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    The 90's want their bling back
    Ha usually I'm even more old school and do a Beastie Boys reference. For me a bling bling reference is as modern as I get LOL.

  8. #3408
    Quote Originally Posted by gainesvilleg View Post
    Well, if only GW/GW2 weren't such boring pieces of garbage you might have a point. Despite GW2 being "free" after purchase nobody plays anymore even after they paid for it. Sure, you might, and a few other die-hards might, but GW2 is dead now it is a fact.
    1. So dead that it grew significantly in revenue last quarter. Yes it was out for the full quarter, but it missed on the initial box sales that drove high revenue during it's release. Yup, surely dead.

    2. Any source for the fact that it's dead other than anecdotal nonsense? I can counter with equally anecdotal stories of bustling servers.

    GW2 is doing just fine and the B2P model is quite successful (TSW has successfully adopted it).

  9. #3409
    It'd help if we could get someone who plays GW2 come in this thread and show how many patches GW2 has put in since launch, just so Airwaves/gainesvilleg can be proved wrong.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  10. #3410
    well I hope it's buy to play

    I'd rather not rent a game

  11. #3411
    Quote Originally Posted by gainesvilleg View Post
    You are correct on veterans not paying for Eve anymore. I actually don't play it anymore myself so I'm not insulted by your implied dig, but factually it is still funded by subscriptions primarily. Noobs tend to pay more than average (via subscription plus PLEX purchase with $$) while vets tend to pay nothing (via buying PLEX with ISK). Many vets can fund multiple accounts easily. But the fact is it innovates still and can still demand a monthly fee. Even if vets can more than earn enough to mitigate the monthly fee. In fact, part of the innovation of EVE is that very fact. You become successful in EVE you play for free.

    And I'm not saying MMOs should all be like EVE, but I do think the better MMOs tend to be able to support monthly fees, which also inherently drive better customer service and updates in order to keep their business. I'm not a big fan of F2P or B2P when it comes to MMOs because I want to have my $$ hanging over the developers heads, ensuring they still work for me.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-23 at 02:46 AM ----------



    Ha usually I'm even more old school and do a Beastie Boys reference. For me a bling bling reference is as modern as I get LOL.
    It wasnt an intended dig, I dont know a single player that pays real money for the sub and Im in one the biggest corp alliances in game. Im sure there are some who do pay of course and I do know that a lot of people do buy plex packages to sell in game, but personally havent met anyone that pays the 15 a month sub with real money. It probably has a lot to do with the 21 day buddy trial and that you can easily earn enough isk in that 21 days to buy your first plex.

    I do however agree with you about some of what you said.

  12. #3412
    Quote Originally Posted by gainesvilleg View Post
    Well, if only GW/GW2 weren't such boring pieces of garbage you might have a point. Despite GW2 being "free" after purchase nobody plays anymore even after they paid for it. Sure, you might, and a few other die-hards might, but GW2 is dead now it is a fact. I think the B2P model just makes them blow their wad on hype and initial launch and then say "screw it why bother investing to fix it" while games that require a subscription feel they need to earn your loyalty month after month after month.

    I personally could care less about the price of a game as long as it is good. Charge me $1000 for a uber game and I'll play it. I'm bling bling money is no object when it comes to games. What I want is quality and B2P for MMO's unfortunately doesn't really result in quality but overhyped garbage like GW2. Subscription games can suck too but there has yet to be a good B2P MMO. Eve Online still charges and they constantly innovate. GW2 is half-assing a garbage game and won't really invest in improving the boringness of it until the next paid release, you can bet on it.

    Bling bling!
    that gaytor intelligence is showing. are you wearing jean shorts right now? i think you are. all you gainesville folks do. put on your jean shorts, warm up your trailer, drink your instant coffe, kiss your sister/wife good bye and off to work

    as i said, gw did well enough with b2p that they created gw2. the fact that you believe that subs are necessary prove you really don't know anything. blizz is moving away from the sub model, but they're gonna milk the piece of shit they have until it's dry and with 3-4 million people still fighting for their right to pay, they'll milk it a while. then it's all about the microtransactions

    2 digital pets a month can net you $20 or more from the person who would pay $15. make people feel like they don't have to buy shit, and they'll buy shit

    go noles


    Please do not insult others. --Sj
    Last edited by Sj; 2013-03-23 at 12:54 PM.

  13. #3413
    Titan Kalyyn's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Indiana, US
    Posts
    11,392
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    It'd help if we could get someone who plays GW2 come in this thread and show how many patches GW2 has put in since launch, just so Airwaves/gainesvilleg can be proved wrong.
    I'll have to ask my dad about it later. I lost interest quite awhile back, but he still plays it every day.

  14. #3414
    Deleted
    It's completely irrelevant if you know people paying for Eve. A PLEX has to be bought with cash, so SOMEONE is always paying the subscription. and getting someone to buy the game is also essentially paying.
    It#s similar with GW2. While you CAN buy gems with gold, the supply of gems gets refilled through people selling gems for gold. So in the end, every gem is payed for with real money.

    There are exceptions (gems for tournament wins comes to mind) in both cases, but I think they are negligible.

    Regarding ESO:

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/twimmo-show-page/

    will have their last episode up sometime today, and they're talking almost exclusively about the Hands-On Event last week, Scott Hawkes from ZAM.com was there and is really going into detail (talking for over an hour)
    Last edited by mmoc5babf89286; 2013-03-23 at 10:21 AM.

  15. #3415
    PAX day one recap from Tamriel Foundry: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/03/pax-day-one-recap/

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalyyn View Post
    I'll have to ask my dad about it later. I lost interest quite awhile back, but he still plays it every day.
    I haven't played GW2 in quite a while myself. I just got bored with it and set it to the side. The nice thing about it being non sub is I can go back to it later on and play again if I want to.

    However, I want to play Skyrim more than I want to play GW2. And naturally I want to play ESO the most, but I have to wait for that.
    Last edited by Tabbycat; 2013-03-23 at 10:57 AM.

  16. #3416
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbycat View Post
    PAX day one recap from Tamriel Foundry: http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/03/pax-day-one-recap/
    well, that sounds nice:

    When asked about his vision for raids and PvE endgame in ESO he explained the controversial IGN quote by recognizing that World of Warcraft is the best in the business at constructing competitive progression raiding. ZeniMax doesn’t want to become embroiled in a struggle to out-do WoW at it’s own game, and would rather develop it’s own brand of large group PvE which fits the Elder Scrolls context. Most WoW-style raids involve 20+ players hacking away gleefully at the ankles of a much larger foe, when Matt Firor claimed “That’s not Elder Scrolls” it was this type of confrontation in particular to which he was referring. The developers at ZeniMax would rather pit a group of players against a much larger force of threatening NPCs to emphasize that heroic feel which is latent throughout the Elder Scrolls series.
    Combined with the AI-System for NPCs and groups of NPCs working together ... this might be fun.

    also:
    Insane Character Creation Customization
    YAY!

  17. #3417
    It's nice... but eh, TOR said the same thing. Not going to believe anything till I see it. Paraphrasing here, but I remember Ohlen... "We don't want a dozen people swinging lightsabers for 5 minutes until the boss dies. We want it to be heroic."
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  18. #3418
    Deleted
    Please don't mention TOR again ... everytime someone mentions it I look at the 150€ Collector's edition Box in my shelf and throw random objects at it.

    I really hope they take a different angle on endgame pve ...

  19. #3419
    Quote Originally Posted by Grantji View Post
    well, that sounds nice:



    Combined with the AI-System for NPCs and groups of NPCs working together ... this might be fun.

    also:

    YAY!
    Think Trial of the Crusade. That was a fun fight to fight your own classes. Dunno if you have played Neverwinter but theres one fight in the 2nd dungeon that makes you fight 5 different classes and its similar to ToC except way easier.

  20. #3420
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    Think Trial of the Crusade. That was a fun fight to fight your own classes. Dunno if you have played Neverwinter but theres one fight in the 2nd dungeon that makes you fight 5 different classes and its similar to ToC except way easier.
    Nah ... I had the choice between Defiance Beta and Neverwinter Beta ... I made the wrong decision.
    Champions were nice, but most of the time the NPCs didn't interact with each other, except maybe the healing. After all that i've heard about the NPC AI in TESO I expect way more than that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •