[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Deleted]

No game has done that yet imo. Nothing is fun enough to do for months without a carrot to me. How can people do the same events over and over in gw2 and find it fun again and again?

Replace some words here.

"How can people do the same raid over and over in WoW and find it fun again and again?"

Events are over fairly quick, they reward you, no gear-gate to pass, no need schedule required. Just drop in and out as you please.
And it works, hence why GW2 is far from dead.

[vizzle]

No game has done that yet imo. Nothing is fun enough to do for months without a carrot to me. How can people do the same events over and over in gw2 and find it fun again and again?

How indeed, the fact still however is that they do. Strange how that happens, other people have different interests...

[zito]

No game has done that yet imo. Nothing is fun enough to do for months without a carrot to me. How can people do the same events over and over in gw2 and find it fun again and again?

If you need a reward to make something fun, then sorry to tell you this but it wasn't fun in the first place you just wanted the reward.

[Valeron]

Even in WoW there are more PVPers than PVEers if you take out the casual LFR queuer.

Well since this thread is already off topic, I find this really hard to believe. Almost every game that I've played (bar strictly pvp games) has an overwhelming number of pve player than pvp players.

[Deleted]

If you need a reward to make something fun, then sorry to tell you this but it wasn't fun in the first place you just wanted the reward.

This on soooooo many levels.

[zito]

How can people do the same events over and over in gw2 and find it fun again and again?

You have some big misconceptions on GW2 and that's because of the WoW mentality which is understandable. GW2 does the carrot but not in the same way. Most people refer to MMO's like WoW, TERA, TSW, etc as you are a horse and there is a carrot on a stick you are chasing.

GW2 has that but instead of you being a horse with a carrot on a stick in front of you and you are chasing it, you are a horse in a field FULL OF CARROTS. You are rewarded for what you find fun not a set path like WoW does with raiding. You like that low level queensdale in GW2? Great, you are scaled down so content isn't trivial and the rewards scale to your current real level so you are rewarded for having fun. Like doing dungeons? Great you get tokens every time you do a dungeon which gives reward. You like dungeons going harder and harder every time? Fractals does that for you. Just logging in for the day for an hour? Cool the daily system rewards you with stuff a person does basically what they would be doing and you get rewards for that.

GW2 is an endless fucking field of carrots, if you don't know that by now you shouldn't of quit once you rushed to max level and heard the word "cosmetic". If you don't like GW2 in general you just don't like it, but don't say because there is no carrot or the carrot is only cosmetic gear because that's just full of crap and if you need a reward to find things fun you and most people have a different definition of the word "fun".

Mine being enjoying myself and yours being "I want to be rewarded"

[Chickat]

If you need a reward to make something fun, then sorry to tell you this but it wasn't fun in the first place you just wanted the reward.

Yes i need a reward to find something fun the 25th time. I Simply cant believe people find the same thing fun the 25th time with little to no reward. That is why gw2 is btp i guess. Im never going to make people have the same opinion as me, so continuing this conversation is pointless. You play your game and ill play mine, but if eso doesnt have the endgame i like dont complain when i dont like the game.

---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 12:52 PM ----------

You have some big misconceptions on GW2 and that's because of the WoW mentality which is understandable. GW2 does the carrot but not in the same way. Most people refer to MMO's like WoW, TERA, TSW, etc as you are a horse and there is a carrot on a stick you are chasing.

GW2 has that but instead of you being a horse with a carrot on a stick in front of you and you are chasing it, you are a horse in a field FULL OF CARROTS. You are rewarded for what you find fun not a set path like WoW does with raiding. You like that low level queensdale in GW2? Great, you are scaled down so content isn't trivial and the rewards scale to your current real level so you are rewarded for having fun. Like doing dungeons? Great you get tokens every time you do a dungeon which gives reward. You like dungeons going harder and harder every time? Fractals does that for you. Just logging in for the day for an hour? Cool the daily system rewards you with stuff a person does basically what they would be doing and you get rewards for that.

GW2 is an endless fucking field of carrots, if you don't know that by now you shouldn't of quit once you rushed to max level and heard the word "cosmetic".

Do you not run out of things to do?

[RoninaThorstone]

Do you not run out of things to do?

What, like clear a raid tier and then not having any new PVE to do till the next content patch?

[Ebonheart]

Well since this thread is already off topic, I find this really hard to believe. Almost every game that I've played (bar strictly pvp games) has an overwhelming number of pve player than pvp players.

Well maybe I worded that a bit wrong. I should have said pure "raiders". Cause sure PVE includes running dungeons, dailies, questing, etc which is the essence for the most part of any MMO at least questing is (not dailies).

Not too long back how much of the population actually experienced any raids? Blizzard has come out and said that only 1-2% of the WoW player base had experienced raids before WTLK. That was when they decided to make it more accessible. However, what happened in Cataclysm and MoP. Compare the number of PVE guilds and guilds in general during WTLK to the number that are currently active. Most casual raiding guilds gave up mid way of the last tier.

The thing with most games, is that you have a typical WoW player trying to quit WoW for something better expecting a game like WoW. They have only come to known what WoW has to offer.

[zito]

Do you not run out of things to do?

Sometimes yes but overall I just feel bored that day, it has nothing to do with running out of things to do it's just I don't want to do anything of this today.

I usually don't like chain running events but sometimes I cross a event in the middle of doing something else and say what the hey. 2 hours later I realized I was chain event running from event to event without realizing it because it was fun and I get rewarded for it scaled to my real level.

[Ebonheart]

Yes i need a reward to find something fun the 25th time. I Simply cant believe people find the same thing fun the 25th time with little to no reward. That is why gw2 is btp i guess. Im never going to make people have the same opinion as me, so continuing this conversation is pointless. You play your game and ill play mine, but if eso doesnt have the endgame i like dont complain when i dont like the game.

---------- Post added 2013-04-05 at 12:52 PM ----------



Do you not run out of things to do?

That is my main hope for TESO is that they don't try and attract the WoW player base. Not trying to be rude or condescending but out of most MMOs, WoW simply has the worst player base overall.

What you seem to be giving out is the "special snowflake syndrome".

Well if what you say is so true, tell me why are forums full of threads regarding dailies being so much of a chore. If what everyone is saying that they want something challenging and rewarding, how is running a raid for the 25th time doing the same rotation challenging once you have geared up the entire raid?

And no one is going to complain you don't like the game. I mean you can't have everyone happy. Blizzard themselves can't keep everyone happy.

The reason the majority in WoW spend their majority of the time on end game, its cause the lower levels till level 90 is complete shit. You are simply too over powered and most people are clueless regarding their class cause 90 levels have thought them nothing about their class. Its all too static from level 1-90.

You hard target a mob and swing and auto attack with no thought to the process. It isn't engaging or fun. Dungeons are similar. Its an AOE fest right up to level 90. There is no thought involved. You target a mob and go through the rotation. It isn't very engaging is what I am trying to say and that is what TESO is trying to do. Their combat seems very engaging, the world seems engaging, the environment you are in seems engaging.

[zito]

Yes i need a reward to find something fun the 25th time. I Simply cant believe people find the same thing fun the 25th time with little to no reward.

a) There is reward
b) Because its fun, they aren't doing it to get stuff, they are doing it because they enjoy it. Like some people like giving others make overs, because they find it fun but they don't get anything out of it.

That is why gw2 is btp i guess.

You "guess" doesn't mean its true. GW2 is B2P because Guild wars was always B2P

Im never going to make people have the same opinion as me, so continuing this conversation is pointless. You play your game and ill play mine, but if eso doesnt have the endgame i like dont complain when i dont like the game.

That's understandable, just don't base this around WoW mentality or misconceptions on other games.

[Zeek Daniels]

No game has done that yet imo. Nothing is fun enough to do for months without a carrot to me. How can people do the same events over and over in gw2 and find it fun again and again?

Pvp is enough for alot of player to play a game for months. Look at shooters. You dont really need a gear treadmill for pvp players.

[mag07]

Pvp is enough for alot of player to play a game for months. Look at shooters. You dont really need a gear treadmill for pvp players.

Shooters are very much a treadmill - improvements, weapons, scopes, armor, the list goes on and on and on. Toss ranks into the coctail and you got yourself a bunch of very hamster friendly games

[OrcsRLame]

Shooters are very much a treadmill - improvements, weapons, scopes, armor, the list goes on and on and on. Toss ranks into the coctail and you got yourself a bunch of very hamster friendly games

There's a reason an FPS hasn't held my interest since Halo 2. Played that game for 2 years pretty much every day. I can't stand this Call of Duty ADD gear treadmill bullshit. At least not in FPS games. It works to a degree in mmorpgs.

[mvaliz]

Tips for endgame development

#1 create an activity that is fun enough to be done repeatedly for months
#2 create a reward that your playerbase will want that takes time to acquire. (this reward can take weeks or even months)

Thats all you really need for endgame content. Either get your players to do something repeatedly that they enjoy. Pvpers are used to this type of gameplay. Or create a reward system that takes time for the players to get rewards. Both PvP and PvE players are used to this.

Really has nothing to do with raiding just the delivery system of rewards players want.

I've got issues with #2...

I don't believe having a large shiny carrot at the end of something a month from now is the ONLY solution. The best time I EVER had in my 8 years of WoW was running LFD durring the ICC days of Wrath. The rewards I got weren't gear at all (was running in full ICC25 heroic gear). The rewards I got was a) the fun of fast-paced action-packed dungeons, b) lots of smaller sellable rewards. Things like badges for mounts, rep badges, crafting orbs, heirlooms, BoE epics. I also got lots of greens to sell for dust, and sometimes dust/enchanting shards to sell. I got pickpocketing items, I got Lots of healing potions via pickpocketing/looting to sell/trade, even got frozen orbs that I could trade in for other rare material crafting items, and d) most importantly - dungeons I can run with my friends and have them be relatively stress-free...

It's not just having one BIG long-term goal to keep you playing that's needed. It's nice, but isn't the ONLY thing. Once you get it, you might simply say "Thank GOD! I'll NEVER do that again!". The idea is to KEEP wanting them to do it forever and ever because it's fun! Having smaller yet constantly perpetual rewards might be a better long-term solution than one big shiny at the end.

The idea is to come out of a dungeon saying "OK, what did I get in my haul this time!?". The idea is to NOT come out of a dungeon saying..."OK - I just need to run this another 132 more times for that horse...sigh"

[Zeek Daniels]

I've got issues with #2...
-snip-

It was a choice, i dont think you need to have #2, your experience in ICC fulfills #1.

Shooters are very much a treadmill - improvements, weapons, scopes, armor, the list goes on and on and on. Toss ranks into the coctail and you got yourself a bunch of very hamster friendly games

Shooters didnt start that way from what i remember. That type of developement is very recent and sure it keeps players reaching for somthing, but i remember when i was in Highschool and halo 1 and 2 were big online shooters and there was no upgrading your spartan. And ppl played for ages, why? because they "Enjoy" killing other players. Thats it.

[zaxlor]

Have they said why they're releasing their verions of "raids" or end-game content 3 months after launch?

The game dosn't have a release date yet, does it? They've got no-one with a gun to their head telling them when to release, so what's with the "Well, we'll just with hold this extra game content for no reason other than we can!". What's stopping them from bringing out the game WITH all that good stuff?

Or maybe it's just some weird rouse, so when people start getting bored they can go "Look, our dev cycle is so damn fast, here's all this new content 2 months early!" to seem like the good guy. It just seems really weird. They're be-holden to themselves. It'd be like making a Mario game with only the first four worlds, then saying "Wait 3 more months for the next four!", even though they're not DLC, you don't pay any extra and there's no reason to just release the game 3 months later.

I'd get it if they said "We're releasing with one adventure zone to start with, then you can expect x more in y timeframe", but they've not. Why leave such a big feature out of the game? Or am I just tottally mis-reading the quotes from the interview?

[Loaf Lord]

They said it "probably" won't be in for launch, so I guess there's still a small chance they will get in for launch. I'm kind of confused too. Why push the game out when it's not ready? I'm guessing they're being pressured by deadlines.

[Edge-]

No you dont count widely successful at 500k subs with wow existing.

Actually, yeah you do. 500k subs is impressive and a feat that few games can achieve for any length of time. If there were more games with 500k+ subs, you'd see press release after press release about it like EVE has been doing as they've been creeping up to, and then surpassing that point.

You don't compare everything to above and beyond leader in a pack.

Oh, your game sold 5 million copies in the first week and had a small development budget? It's not wildly successful, this game sold that in the first day with a massively huge budget and a marketing budget that dwarfs your entire budget.

That's a ridiculous statement and it's false.

Forget everything ive said. Eso needs an endgame to survive. There thats all i mean.

Also, not true. GW2 doesn't have an "endgame", yet the game was still doing well months after launch with revenue staying high (over $100M for the quarter after it launched, so no profits from initial sales there) and servers remaining quite active). A game doesn't need a traditional raiding "endgame" in order to be successful. Hell, Rift has one of the best (if not the best) "endgames" in the market and it's nowhere near as successful as WoW.