[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Markrain1]

A paywall is something that prevents your character from progressing any further unless you spend money. A CE-exclusive race is not a paywall.

A paywall is something that prevents you access to something unless you pay money. A CE-exclusive race is most definitely a paywall. Grats on convincing yourself of that though, that takes some first rate denial.

[Edge-]

[*]Any race can be any class, that's more than you can say for WoW

This is the case in a ton of other MMO's. It's hardly any kind of serious selling point.

[*]Any character can benefit from using any weapon or armor type, again more than you can say for WoW

TSW does not feature any restrictions on weapon/gear either (provided you've unlocked the ability to use the type of weapon). It's nice to see more games without strict class restrictions in terms of itemization, but it's hardly worth $15 for something like this.

[*]Any class can perform any role, yet again much more than you can say for WoW

TSW would like to say hi, and Rift is almost there, reaching that point with the next expansion.

So with all of the restrictions we're accustomed to in WoW being non-existent in ESO, there needs to be some kind of exclusivity in place to keep things interesting. I'll also point out that racial traits in ESO aren't even as drastic as racials in WoW.

I strongly disagree that there needs to be some kind of exclusivity to keep things interesting. Seriously, TSW and Rift are two prime examples of this. Rift has basically no restrictions, and as of the next expansion will have no restrictions, in terms of what class/race/role combo you want to play. TSW literally has no restrictions whatsoever due to its classless design. Both games still remain interesting despite this lack of exclusivity.

Exclusivity is not inherently interesting.

[Jtbrig7390]

TSW would like to say hi, and Rift is almost there, reaching that point with the next expansion.

Offtopic: Has rift announced a new expansion??? Haven't fallowed rift in awhile.

[Deleted]

No, there really shouldn't be any exclusivity when you pay for a game and forced to pay for it monthly. That's just trying to justify their idiotic decisions. I'm okay with pets and mounts for CE, but wtf - a whole race? That's gameplay they're cutting out. Potential story diversion, different racials etc. There's no way you can justify doing that, especially with the payment method they chose.

What they're trying to do is basically milk out as much money as possible before turning the game f2p. Cant blame them really, but it still sucks.

Just want to clarify there is no story diversion. There are racials but the racial bonuses are so small so far as to be negligible. The bonuses on existing races are as exciting as things like "take 2% less damage from fire". Nothing more important than that. Less important even than wow's race choice. Whilst I don't personally think they should have made a new race for the CE either, there's not really any "gameplay" difference so to speak.

[Deleted]

I don't see the huge problem behind putting this as a collector's edition feature. Keep in mind, they can just do it once (as tamriel just has 10 races), it gives something cool for those that buy a collector's edition besides getting an ingame pet and mount and anyone who wants to play imperials can do so by upgrading their account. But it isn't necessary, no one forces you to get the imperial race if you want it you can take it and if you don't want it, then don't.

I don't see the problem behind this kind of "paywall" it's a collector's edition feature so what.

Besides this I do think that something can be said about the racial bonusses it'll have, but from what I have heard so far the bonusses are really small and barely noticeable. Although I would have preffered if Imperials would be more like a 'skin' you chose for an excisting race (and you would get those racials).

Tl;dr : don't get the problem with having the Imperial race. Although it would have been better if it were just a skin instead of a race.

[Deleted]

Any race can be any class, that's more than you can say for WoW

It also has less than half the classes of WoW. So there's that. They couldn't restrict who can be what because some races would only have like 2 options.

Any character can benefit from using any weapon or armor type, again more than you can say for WoW
Any class can perform any role, yet again much more than you can say for WoW

Personally, I don't see these two points as pluses in any game. When the devs go down the route of "do whatever you want" there will emerge a very strict meta as a result of the impossible balance they've set themselves. X class using Y armour and Z weapon with this-very-specific-skillset will be the best tank/healer/deeps and all others are undesirable which just defeats the object. You also get the arms race effect, severe ability bloat and/or multi-purpose confusing spells. Any game launching with "every class can do and be everything at any time" is setting themselves up for a headache when it turns out that actually, Clerics in leather with a wand suck donkey dick and all those players must now reroll or re-gear and change style if they want to get anything done.

So with all of the restrictions we're accustomed to in WoW being non-existent in ESO, there needs to be some kind of exclusivity in place to keep things interesting.

The exclusivity should be in the gameplay mechanics (see above), not in what race you can RP as if you pay more money. Something like this will screw over the people who've played Imperials since the first Elder Scrolls game and just smacks of cash-grabbing.

[Markrain1]

Still pretty shady a -race- is walled by a more expensive version of the game. It's like the SL souls for Rift, but in this case it's just a race, which is quite silly tbh.

It's not even like the SL souls for RIFT - those came with an expansion pack released long after the main game, plus that's a F2P game anyway, so it makes sense to have to buy those separately if you just downloaded the game for free. What we have here is in essence a day 1 DLC really with TESO. We are being asked to pay box price + 15 dollars per month + even more money for access to all races. And this isn't some vanity pet or armor, or even a horse, it's an entire RACE. Some people may not think it's a big deal, but for me and a lot of other people we feel it is crossing the line.

Having said that, the real question is who is to blame? It's the suits upstairs, not the developers. So do we as consumers "punish" the company by not buying to send a message that we won't tolerate that - while at the same time punishing the developers who put their hearts and souls into this awesome game? Or do we buy it anyway, support the devs and "good guys", while also adding to the ever increasing problem of money grubbing of the higher big wigs? Catch 22 really

[Sharuko]

It also has less than half the classes of WoW. So there's that. They couldn't restrict who can be what because some races would only have like 2 options.

Classes are just rough bases, they aren't strict classes like they are in WoW.

You also get the arms race effect, severe ability bloat and/or multi-purpose confusing spells.

Huh? None of that will happen in this game.

- - - Updated - - -

What they're trying to do is basically milk out as much money as possible before turning the game f2p. Cant blame them really, but it still sucks.

This is a big MMO with a big budget, so they need to make as much money back as possible quickly and more importantly get as many players into the game at launch and try to keep them there. In MMOs once you hit critical mass and if the game is good, it will be good news for revenue.

People think lifting NDA builds publicity and hype? I don't believe that, look at WildStar. People always want a taste of that forbidden fruit and want to see what people are hiding. Strict NDAs will only build hype.

I believe ESO will be like SWTOR, lift NDA a month before launch. And have a open beta a month before launch. This way the hype train into launch starts around launch. It doesn't start months before and fizzle out.

[Deleted]

Expensive pre-order on a game that has not even lifted its nda, and with cashshop money grab before its even launched in a sub based game that boasted it would be 100% of content for the sub.....

Its at best day 1 dlc in a sub game, and more worryingly a sign of what is going to be sold in addition to the sub. Wow is getting silly with the mounts now, with several recent ones and them being nicer than in game ones. Plus pure power sales in level 90s. It seams sub plus client is not enough, add in cashshop aswell.....

Yeah, they need a better pr department. Its putting me right off it. i've never been massively into it, but been following its development with some interest, but this just feels bad to me. Add in that the game play we have seen looks ripped from other mmos, but the devs dont appear to have learnt the lessons those games did, and devs whos mmo inexperience seams to be showing and i'm definately luke warm at best towards this one now.

[Aoewy]

Expensive pre-order on a game that has not even lifted its nda, and with cashshop money grab before its even launched in a sub based game that boasted it would be 100% of content for the sub.....

Yeah, they need a better pr department. Its putting me right off it. i've never been massively into it, but been following its development with some interest, but this just feels bad to me. Add in that the game play we have seen looks ripped from other mmos, but the devs dont appear to have learnt the lessons those games did, and devs whos mmo inexperience seams to be showing and i'm definately luke warm at best towards this one now.

Which MMOs are those? Since the game is action combat without any form of targetting, can be played both 3rd or 1st person, have no minimap or cast bars, and i can go on. I'm curious.

[Deleted]

Which MMOs are those? Since the game is action combat without any form of targetting, I'm curious.

You only bolded the first half of the sentace btw, it was one point which should be read in its entirety.

But...

Things like dark anchors are basically rifts.

Which is fine, i dont have an issue with that. But, rift learnt a lot about that kind of content in an mmo, how it needs to scale, even things like travel time differentials. From what the devs have said, they have not learnt these lessons.....scaling to FOUR people? Wtf? No zerg counter mechanics...things like that.

I'm not knocking the content being like in other games. That would be like knocking a driving sim for using roads.....but they appear to be making mistakes that other games have already learnt to avoid.

[Edge-]

Which MMOs are those? Since the game is action combat without any form of targetting, I'm curious.

Not ripped from these games, but the combat is functionally the same as Dragon Nest, Dragon's Prophet, Vindictus, Tera, RaiderZ, and a few other action combat MMO's that do not feature targeting.

[Jtbrig7390]

Which MMOs are those? Since the game is action combat without any form of targetting, I'm curious.

I think hes talking about the rifts that is the same as the rifts from rift.

I could be wrong tho. I don't mind MMO's barrowing idea's from each other personally but the race behind the CE paywall is a 100% turn off for me so I won't be getting ESO.

[Aoewy]

Not ripped from these games, but the combat is functionally the same as Dragon Nest, Dragon's Prophet, Vindictus, Tera, RaiderZ, and a few other action combat MMO's that do not feature targeting.

It is. But thats not an argument against ESO... as there is 3 possibles combat style.. Full action combat, hybrid (gw2), tab target. Every mmo that will come out, will have one of those 3. I have hard time to imagine something different, outside maybe turn by turn rpg, which in a mmo might be boring

[Dilbon]

Tl;dr : don't get the problem with having the Imperial race. Although it would have been better if it were just a skin instead of a race.

I have no clue about racials, but I think races are basically just skins in this game.

[Sharuko]

and devs whos mmo inexperience seams to be showing

Don't worry about their experience, they have guys from leadership positions on games like Ultima Online and DAoC. But experience means nothing these days, there are developers with great experience that can make bad games.

[Edge-]

It is. But thats not an argument against ESO... as there is 3 possibles combat style.. Full action combat, hybrid (gw2), tab target. Every mmo that will come out, will have one of those 3. I have hard time to imagine something different, outside maybe turn by turn rpg, which in a mmo might be boring

Wait, what? 3 combat styles? Tab targeting? Did I miss something?

[Aoewy]

You only bolded the first half of the sentace btw, it was one point which should be read in its entirety.

But...

Things like dark anchors are basically rifts.

Which is fine, i dont have an issue with that. But, rift learnt a lot about that kind of content in an mmo, how it needs to scale, even things like travel time differentials. From what the devs have said, they have not learnt these lessons.....scaling to FOUR people? Wtf? No zerg counter mechanics...things like that.

I'm not knocking the content being like in other games. That would be like knocking a driving sim for using roads.....but they appear to be making mistakes that other games have already learnt to avoid.

Ah so you talked about Rift. Well, you might have a point on them, but as they are very small part of the game play, and we know nothing about any possible changes, I reserve my judgment on them for when the game come out.

[Deleted]

I think hes talking about the rifts that is the same as the rifts from rift.

I could be wrong tho. I don't mind MMO's barrowing idea's from each other personally but the race behind the CE paywall is a 100% turn off for me so I won't be getting ESO.

Yes, i meant things like rifts and dynamic content etc.

Copying stuff like that was not a criticism btw, i think more games should take that approach. But using that type,of content and not learning the lessons from games that have already done it is just plain silly. And from the devs recent questions and answers, its clear they are setting the selves up for a major problem here.

[Sharuko]

But using that type,of content and not learning the lessons from games that have already done it is just plain silly.

What lessons? And what mistakes did those games make?