1. #841
    I am Murloc! Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centerra View Post
    This cannot be overstated. It's an as of yet untested studio, with that guy who made Tabula Rasa in it.
    Who knows, but maybe zeni will be a new blizzard.
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  2. #842
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Who knows, but maybe zeni will be a new blizzard.
    This is a possibility you can't judge a company/developer until you actually have a product to try out.

  3. #843
    Mechagnome Sir Punky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ita View Post
    Why do people always assume it's being developed by Bethesda because it's not.
    Because they don't use their brain. Just like Fallout: New Vegas, the game was made by Obsidian Entertainment, but dumb people blamed Bethesda

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  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    Who knows, but maybe zeni will be a new blizzard.
    Don't think they will be a new Blizzard, but I do think that they will make a great game. Matt Firor and some other guys at ZeniMax developed the mmorpg Dark Age of Camelot, which was released in 2001 and was one of the best mmos ever made, especially pvp wise. It didn't have that many players because mmos were not mainstream back then as they are now, but the game was really well coded and well designed!

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Punky View Post
    Because they don't use their brain. Just like Fallout: New Vegas, the game was made by Obsidian Entertainment, but dumb people blamed Bethesda
    (not directed at you, but rather the gaming internet community in general)

    Watch the wording: "Blamed"

    Developers no longer "get credit" for their work, they are "blamed" for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Then the [MMORPG] genre started attracting more players. These players wanted more of a "game" and less of a "world" [...]

  6. #846
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfsage View Post
    (not directed at you, but rather the gaming internet community in general)

    Watch the wording: "Blamed"

    Developers no longer "get credit" for their work, they are "blamed" for it.

    Very true though I feel that the reason for this is that the bigger companies no longer make games they themselves find fun but instead games that will bring in the most revenue. It's what used to set Blizzard apart from other developers but no longer.

    Either way, with how well 343's done with Halo 4 (I'm getting that Halo 1 feel from every single tid bit in that game and it's crazy) I think more recent developers do have what it takes. Just, an MMO is a very heavy mantle to take on and I hope Zenimax realizes that they need to put gameplay above all else while at the same time not sacrificing Bathesda's enormous and impressive amount of lore and story-telling.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2012-11-15 at 02:29 AM.
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  7. #847
    I am Murloc! Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Very true though I feel that the reason for this is that the bigger companies no longer make games they themselves find fun but instead games that will bring in the most revenue. It's what used to set Blizzard apart from other developers but no longer.

    Either way, with how well 343's done with Halo 4 (I'm getting that Halo 1 feel from every single tid bit in that game and it's crazy) I think more recent developers do have what it takes. Just, an MMO is a very heavy mantle to take on and I hope Zenimax realizes that they need to put gameplay above all else while at the same time not sacrificing Bathesda's enormous and impressive amount of lore and story-telling.
    And I think that is whats going to either make or break the game. If they give in to the lore too much at the cost of game play it will suck, but if they completely trash the lore what is the point in playing?
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  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    And I think that is whats going to either make or break the game. If they give in to the lore too much at the cost of game play it will suck, but if they completely trash the lore what is the point in playing?
    I think we should all step back and think about what made TOR fail. They had undoubtedly amazing story, amazing lore (with what they could do by setting it a thousand(?) years back), and just an amazing story-driven leveling experience. Less than a year later they've gone F2P and their entire dev team has been beheaded. Why? The gameplay was neglected/too generic at max level. Let's stop worrying about the story, the story will be fine.
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  9. #849
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    I think we should all step back and think about what made TOR fail. They had undoubtedly amazing story, amazing lore (with what they could do by setting it a thousand(?) years back), and just an amazing experience. But the gameplay was neglected/too generic at max level. Let's stop worrying about the story, the story will be fine.
    You can't say that though. It's one of my biggest beefs with WoW that it's story-telling is abysmal. But I've chalked that up to Blizzard as a whole instead of just MMO's because Diablo III's story telling managed to suck even more and Bioware made it clear that you CAN have great story telling in an MMO.

    So basically this needs to be a fine balancing act between the two taking the best of both worlds. If they manage to do so I think they could be the first real contender to WoW. But it's a near impossibility with time tables etc. Every MMO seems to be launching before it's done lately.

    WoW has also had 8 years to refine the gameplay to be seamless and amazing while Blizzard has repeatedly and without fail delivered on some of the greatest gameplay in every single of their games. Similarly, Bioware has a history of some of the best story telling in the video game industry. So I'm willing to lower the standards for both aspects for Zenimax but not to the extent that both are flat out fail.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  10. #850
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    You can't say that though. It's one of my biggest beefs with WoW that it's story-telling is abysmal. But I've chalked that up to Blizzard as a whole instead of just MMO's because Diablo III's story telling managed to suck even more and Bioware made it clear that you CAN have great story telling in an MMO.

    So basically this needs to be a fine balancing act between the two taking the best of both worlds. If they manage to do so I think they could be the first real contender to WoW. But it's a near impossibility with time tables etc. Every MMO seems to be launching before it's done lately.
    Okay, but the evidence is right there. WoW has abysmal story-telling but an arguably great endgame, and TOR has great story-telling but abysmal endgame. WoW's a behemoth and TOR had to fire everyone.

    Both are important, but gameplay is far more important than story. Not to mention that a decent story with a setting like Elder Scrolls is a thousand times easier to write up than interesting gameplay that can keep millions of people playing for months and years.

    Also, I'm pretty sure there are a lot more "PvE/PvP is shit/boring, I'm unsubbing!" threads than "I didn't like the story, I'm unsubbing!"
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  11. #851
    Stood in the Fire Centerra's Avatar
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    Single player story arcs just don't carry much weight in an mmo for me, watching 5 other Inquisitors leaving the story instance with me, while 3 Sith warriors wait for their friends outside because their "personal story" was shorter just killed the immersion. Also that fact that the world made no effort to be dynamic and your story lost relavance outside of those instances.

    It worries me that TESO might be going down a similar path, hopefully, it will be optional, and I'll be able to play just fine by exploring caverns, climbing mountains and bothering guars. It's kind of worth noting that wow is the most successful mmo ever, and it's story is basically just window dressing that you learn by reading the wikis or playing wc3, and the actual game is about gameplay and progression.

  12. #852
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    I am extremely excited for eso. Its the first MMO that has seriously made me think about switching from wow. I remember about 3 or 4 years ago my mate and I were talking about what would get us to quit wow, and my comment was along the lines of "only if they made some sort of Elder Scrolls mmo." I still stand by that phrase. I really think they have something going and I get good feelings from Zenimax from what information they've released so far. We'll see how it goes, but I am definitely keeping a very close eye on it.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Okay, but the evidence is right there. WoW has abysmal story-telling but an arguably great endgame, and TOR has great story-telling but abysmal endgame. WoW's a behemoth and TOR had to fire everyone.

    Both are important, but gameplay is far more important than story. Not to mention that a decent story with a setting like Elder Scrolls is a thousand times easier to write up than interesting gameplay that can keep millions of people playing for months and years.

    Also, I'm pretty sure there are a lot more "PvE/PvP is shit/boring, I'm unsubbing!" threads than "I didn't like the story, I'm unsubbing!"
    Yea that's a very good point and I apologize for misconstruing what you were saying. Gameplay definitely sits at the front which makes WoW the more successful game but being as this is Elder Scrolls I feel lore is it's foundation and without it'd be nothing.

    Remember also that TOR was successful at the start because of how awesome the storylines were for each of the classes so it does hold a lot of value. And then again, it's more about interesting and varied stories than overarching seemingly important stories (see: guild quests verses main quests ES IV and V).

    But when push comes to shove story telling in MMO's as a whole needs to be redone. Quests that make impacts on the world as a whole. Quests that are responses to those impacts etc. would make one helluva dynamic MMO that would be directed in it's lore entirely by players while still having the game's own lore elements with the guilds and things. But even the guilds can be made into contested territory. Purging a dark brotherhood sanctuary would mean that you now have to go out and kill the players who are in it. Becoming the guild master could be no easy task as both you and another player rose through the ranks really quickly and now must fight over the position. The quest givers are never usually the guild masters themselves so this would work perfectly. God there's so much they can do with this.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2012-11-15 at 07:43 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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  14. #854
    I just think devs would be best off to remember that story only happens once, while gameplay lasts forever. I love story as much as the next guy, but story won't keep me playing for months and months.

    Anyway, didn't see anyone post this. They had a little Q&A a few days ago. I'm annoyed that all the nerds are asking questions about lore and "omgherg are we gonna see things from other games?!" Seriously, guys, that stuff is novelty, that's not going to make or break the game or come anywhere near making/breaking it. Disappointed with their answer to the first question. I see dark clouds on the horizon...

    I wish devs would figure out that some of us don't like playing alts just to see all the content.

    http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en...rt-pact-part-1

    Will the faction PVE areas each have their own quests? Or will they be mirrors of each other? – By El Hefe

    Each Alliance (and area) has its own completely unique quests and storylines, layered on top of their individual internal struggles and history. When we design content in The Elder Scrolls Online, we aspire to create storylines, experiences, and characters that are befitting of the Alliance they are a part of. Each Alliance’s content in ESO is as varied and dynamic as the Alliances themselves are—your adventures an Argonian in the Ebonheart Pact, for example, will be quite different than those of a Bosmer in the Aldmeri Dominion.

    Should you choose to play characters in each of the three Alliances (and we hope you do!), you will experience completely different content that is representative of each Alliance’s story, history, and politics.

    Obviously the Elves and the Nords have never got along too well - are the nations in the factions entirely happy with the alliance, or are there rogue/rebel groups within, say, Skyrim or Morrowind? – By George Trotter

    The foundation the Ebonheart Pact was built upon—one of mutual desire for survival—makes for a deeply complex and ever-shifting political atmosphere. The Argonians, Nords, and Dark Elves have set aside their differences, for now, to unite under one banner against their shared enemies—but to say that everyone is happy or even content with the Alliance would be a far cry from the truth. A certain level of distrust and resentment roils just beneath the surface for many members of the Pact.

    While some are openly accepting or critical of the Alliance, most Pact members you’ll encounter fall somewhere in between, and hold their true feelings about the arrangement close to their chest. It really depends on each individual character’s perspective and life experiences. Most you encounter are not willing to bring up their personal feelings to a stranger, but you will meet some who are very open with their praise or disdain for the choices their leaders have made.

    This might also entail the rest of the game, but how big will Morrowind be compared to how big it was in TES 3? I get that the landscape will be different, but will it still be the same size, and have a similar layout? – By Ryon Burridge

    It’s difficult to make a direct size comparison between the two, as they actually take place in different areas of Morrowind. The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind takes place on the northern island of Vvardenfell. In The Elder Scrolls Online, you’ll get to explore Morrowind’s mainland and see areas you’ve never seen before, or haven’t seen in to the level of detail we’re presenting it in. One such area is Deshaan, the region of southern Morrowind that borders Black Marsh. That’s not to say adventurers in The Elder Scrolls Online won’t ever be able to visit Vvardenfell.

    Looking at http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/game-guide/alliances I noticed some areas were grayed... or rather, "browned" out; Black Marsh and Vvardenfell, most notably, and with Solstheim, large portion of the western Skyrim (the areas containing Markath and Solitude, for example), and most of the eastern portion of Morrowind. The question itself is as follows: Do you have future plans regarding these areas, possibly including them at expansions, etc? And is the "only" playable area for the Pact the area colored in red - not to forget Cyrodiil, of course? If so, might we gain a rough estimate of the amount of "zones" (areas with short loading screens separating them) this seemingly massive area includes? – By Juho Kola

    It’s too early for us to start discussing the exact number and names of locations that each Alliance will be able to explore when The Elder Scrolls Online launches, but we have plans to expand and open up more regions of Tamriel in the future.

    As for the colors you see on our Alliances page map, those are rough visual representations of each Alliance’s territory. That map is meant to give you a general idea of each Alliance’s regions—what you see there is not intended to be exact.

    Given the fact that Windhelm will most definitely be in TESO, how familiar will it be to the Windhelm of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim? It's quite a bit younger in TESO, but still of Ancient Atmoran aesthetic, being built by Ysgramor himself. – By Madison Harmon Bullock IV

    We’ve taken great care to be extremely faithful to the existing Elder Scrolls lore, history, and visual feel. This includes our approach to how we’ve designed places you’ve visited in previous Elder Scrolls games, such as the city of Windhelm, in Skyrim’s Eastmarch region. If you’ve played The Elder Scrolls V:Skyrim, walking through the streets of Windhelm in The Elder Scrolls Online will feel very familiar. The same goes for Cyrodiil—those who visited the region in The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion will notice familiar villages and points of interest in ESO’s Cyrodiil, such as Chorrol.

    That being said, the stories and events that unfold in these areas during The Elder Scrolls Online will be different than those in past Elder Scrolls games. The people living in these familiar places won’t be too different from their brethren in later times; however, they will have different views and tales to tell, based on the current events that are impacting their daily lives.

    Will we see dragon temples in the Skyrim area? If I remember correctly, dragons had disappeared thousands of years ago at the time of Skyrim. Loved seeing these temples in Skyrim! Including them will give a really cool feeling. – By Wynand van Wyk

    Yes, if you explore Skyrim, you will discover Dragon Temples in The Elder Scrolls Online. Their massive size and characteristic architecture is very recognizable, especially if you’re familiar with what they look like in The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Some of the Dragon Temples from Skyrim are also in The Elder Scrolls Online, such as the grand mountaintop temple of Skuldafn, but there are also new Dragon Temple locations for you to discover. We look forward to seeing who among you will find them when The Elder Scrolls Online launches.
    Last edited by vizzle; 2012-11-15 at 05:55 PM.
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  15. #855
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Also, I'm pretty sure there are a lot more "PvE/PvP is shit/boring, I'm unsubbing!" threads than "I didn't like the story, I'm unsubbing!"
    Although you are correct, i would like to mention that the story is the reason I quit WoW. I did not like the direction WoW took as Cata was coming to a close. In the beginning of Cata i was sooo excited that the Aspects were assembling and Cenarious was back and Malfurion was back it was an awesome assembling of Heroes, and then there was Deathwing...Dude got punched in the face by an over confident Orc and went into hiding until the aspects came knocking on his door and jumped him with 25 of their boys. Lame! j/k..sorta.

    In vanilla - WoLK the lore was fantastic, the story telling not so much, but the actual data there was to be collected about this wonderfullly intertwined world was intoxicating! I really couldn't get enough of it, i would sit on WoW wiki for hours seeing how each person or creature connected to the history of Azeroth.

    That was one thing that kept me wanting more when playing WoW, was to see how these characters would grow and who would come out of the wood work. But then...out of nowhere...Pandas...i've since had an additional $15 a month in my bank account, lol.

    The point is, Mechanics can be changed if they are terrible, story if changed can really mess up the entire flow of the game.

  16. #856
    I am Murloc! Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    Although you are correct, i would like to mention that the story is the reason I quit WoW. I did not like the direction WoW took as Cata was coming to a close. In the beginning of Cata i was sooo excited that the Aspects were assembling and Cenarious was back and Malfurion was back it was an awesome assembling of Heroes, and then there was Deathwing...Dude got punched in the face by an over confident Orc and went into hiding until the aspects came knocking on his door and jumped him with 25 of their boys. Lame! j/k..sorta.

    In vanilla - WoLK the lore was fantastic, the story telling not so much, but the actual data there was to be collected about this wonderfullly intertwined world was intoxicating! I really couldn't get enough of it, i would sit on WoW wiki for hours seeing how each person or creature connected to the history of Azeroth.

    That was one thing that kept me wanting more when playing WoW, was to see how these characters would grow and who would come out of the wood work. But then...out of nowhere...Pandas...i've since had an additional $15 a month in my bank account, lol.

    The point is, Mechanics can be changed if they are terrible, story if changed can really mess up the entire flow of the game.
    So you quit wow because of pandas.... Well Pandaria has some of the best quests and lore ever made. Just because you dont like the lore they are adding, doesnt mean its bad lore.
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  17. #857
    Moderator Shamanic's Avatar
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    Wish the "Ask me anything" panel had more technical details but I guess they're holding off for now.
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  18. #858
    Bloodsail Admiral Maythael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanic View Post
    Wish the "Ask me anything" panel had more technical details but I guess they're holding off for now.
    Same here.
    I'm interested in TESO, looks like it could be pretty good.
    I hope they learn from other "MMO mistakes", and are willing to listen.

    ...reading the posts above, feeling like the thread is going places - game vs game...
    Last edited by Maythael; 2012-11-16 at 04:15 PM.

  19. #859
    If they lock zones, that is we can not visit hostile zone and kill enemy player, I'm not going to buy it. I really don't want to circle jerk until max level with my allies or do some bullcrap instanced PvP or huge zergfest mindless battles like WvsWvsW in GW2.

  20. #860
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuntantee View Post
    If they lock zones, that is we can not visit hostile zone and kill enemy player, I'm not going to buy it. I really don't want to circle jerk until max level with my allies or do some bullcrap instanced PvP or huge zergfest mindless battles like WvsWvsW in GW2.
    I'm of a similar opinion, I'm fine with no quests being available to players in enemy territory but I don't see the harm in being able to raid other factions home cities. The devs themselves said in the video; this game is about exploration, so it would be incredibly hypercritical to lock out almost two thirds of Tamriel to your character.

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