1. #1001
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    There are actually tons of races in Elder Scrolls. 50+ at least. It's just that only 9 are playable in the single player series(+2 if you count vampire and werewolf as separate races). I actually see it as a huge bonus. All the playable races make sense and none of them are silly, joke races or ripoffs from real history (ex. egyptian cat people or mongol dog people). Besides, I only play humans anyway and very rarely elves in RPGs. Meeting interesting lore characters or races is fun, being one really isn't. I actually like the fact that you can't be a snow elf or dremora or what were those crab people called again in Skyrim.
    in my opinion its not that bad in a single player game especially a game like elder scrolls where its mainly played in first person but for me an mmo is always best when theres tons of different races you can play as since it makes everyone look a bit more unique.

    the amount of customization in elder scrolls does help alot with this though i remember in oblivion if you knew how to mess with certain features you could kind of mess up things and get things you werent normally supposed to get like blue skin and weird colored hair
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  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    There are 10 zones in the game... but your character can only ever explore 4 of them, your 3 home faction zones and Cyrodill. Cyrodill being the end-game largest zone where all three factions will meet for PVP/Endgame content.

    Meaning if you role a Khajit (Cat person), you can only go to Elsewyr, Summerset Isle and Valenwood in addition to Cyrodill.
    Skyrim, Morrowind, Black Marsh, High Rock, ect will be locked off from you.

    Same with if you roll an Argonian (lizard person) - you can only go to Black Marsh, Morrowind and Skyrim in addition to Cyrodill, but you cannot go anywhere else.

    The reason they're doing this is to promote cooperation/bonding in their homelands between factions instead of individual competition. It's actually an excellent idea - the problem is it TOTALLY negates what Elder Scrolls is about and is NOT what ES players wanted.

    Not to mention all the jackass PVP gankers from WoW hating it as they can't "World PVP" - which is another term for lowbie-faction ganking/griefing.
    At first I thought that this game sounds interesting but after reading that I am kinda pissed.

    I love to play TES games as it is just amazing how much time you can "loose" by just playing the game the way you want. There are always things that you stumble on that you do then do spontaneously and so many different ways to play the game.

    Exploration is a vital part of the whole series and most importantly it is FREEDOM to do whatever you want to and go wherever you want to.

    Locking down "enemy" zones completely is crap. I would not want to roll a Bosmer and be locked to Valenwood, Summerset Isles and whatever the third allied zone is (plus Cyrodiil as endgame zone ofc) That destroys the whole ES feeling to be honest.

    At first I was thinking that this game will be a massive experience with the whole of Tamriel visitable in one game but sounds like that ain´t gonna happen.

  3. #1003
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    There are 10 zones in the game... but your character can only ever explore 4 of them, your 3 home faction zones and Cyrodill. Cyrodill being the end-game largest zone where all three factions will meet for PVP/Endgame content.

    Meaning if you role a Khajit (Cat person), you can only go to Elsewyr, Summerset Isle and Valenwood in addition to Cyrodill.
    Skyrim, Morrowind, Black Marsh, High Rock, ect will be locked off from you.

    Same with if you roll an Argonian (lizard person) - you can only go to Black Marsh, Morrowind and Skyrim in addition to Cyrodill, but you cannot go anywhere else.

    The reason they're doing this is to promote cooperation/bonding in their homelands between factions instead of individual competition. It's actually an excellent idea - the problem is it TOTALLY negates what Elder Scrolls is about and is NOT what ES players wanted.

    Not to mention all the jackass PVP gankers from WoW hating it as they can't "World PVP" - which is another term for lowbie-faction ganking/griefing.
    You're 100% spot on. If this stays as is, I will not be buying ESO, no matter how good the rest of the game is.

  4. #1004
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    There are actually tons of races in Elder Scrolls. 50+ at least. It's just that only 9 are playable in the single player series(+2 if you count vampire and werewolf as separate races). I actually see it as a huge bonus. All the playable races make sense and none of them are silly, joke races or ripoffs from real history (ex. egyptian cat people or mongol dog people). Besides, I only play humans anyway and very rarely elves in RPGs. Meeting interesting lore characters or races is fun, being one really isn't. I actually like the fact that you can't be a snow elf or dremora or what were those crab people called again in Skyrim.
    Look, I love Skyrim and am into the ES series now thanks to it. but, see, to me there aren't 9 playable races... there's only 4. Humans, elves, Cat people and lizard people.

    Nords, Bretons, imperials and redguards look all exactly the same (possible exception for the Redguard, which has darker skin).

    Dunmer, Altmer, Bosmer and even Orcs look all exactly the same (possible exception for the Dunmer/orcs, which has darker skin).

    Yes - the lore is VERY deep for each of them. The lore, however, doesn't effect jack squat to their outer appearance. Sure, they have 1 or 3 unique racial abilities. I'm not talking the story or gameplay - I'm talking pure esthetics.

    That's why I laughed when I saw the race roster in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Cyborgs!? Seriously!? Humans with tiny bits of metal slapped on their faces? THAT'S A WHOLE NEW RACE!? Compare that to Star Wars: Galaxies, where you had Wookies, Trandoshians (Bosk), Mon Calmari (Admiral "it's a TRAP!" ackbar), ect... It's either that or humans with facepaint of some kind...

    WoW sadly is the ONLY MMORPG today who dares make a race that has a vastly different physical build from each other race. Hell, you can even tell Bloodelves from Nightelves apart easily... even when wearing armor. In Skyrim the only thing that separates the races when wearing armor is a) the voice actor or b) if they have a tail. >_<

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 12:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    hmm so theres 3 factions you spend most of your time leveling up only in a zone with your own faction and you can dress up however you want regardless of class then for endgame you go to a big zone for all three factions? doesnt sound that bad O-O
    hmm so theres 2 factions you spend most of your time leveling up only in a zone with your own faction and you can dress up dependent on class then for endgame you go to a big zone for both factions? doesnt sound that bad O-O

    Edited that to show you a Warcraft comparison. :P

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 01:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TranquilDream View Post
    You're 100% spot on. If this stays as is, I will not be buying ESO, no matter how good the rest of the game is.
    Yeah... I'm pretty miffy about that myself. What they should've done (IMO) is keep the 3 factions, but let you choose your race and go adventure into the game. Then, at some point (any point you want really!) you could choose a side to go with, and then you'd be able to stay on that faction's cities, use their AHs and participate in PVP with them.

    I still think it sounds like a fun game... the trouble is it has this nasty title called "Elder Scrolls" on it that really should've been something else. :P

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 01:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Megaira View Post
    At first I thought that this game sounds interesting but after reading that I am kinda pissed.

    I love to play TES games as it is just amazing how much time you can "loose" by just playing the game the way you want. There are always things that you stumble on that you do then do spontaneously and so many different ways to play the game.

    Exploration is a vital part of the whole series and most importantly it is FREEDOM to do whatever you want to and go wherever you want to.

    Locking down "enemy" zones completely is crap. I would not want to roll a Bosmer and be locked to Valenwood, Summerset Isles and whatever the third allied zone is (plus Cyrodiil as endgame zone ofc) That destroys the whole ES feeling to be honest.

    At first I was thinking that this game will be a massive experience with the whole of Tamriel visitable in one game but sounds like that ain´t gonna happen.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    Though technically all of Tamriel will be visitable in one game... just sadly NOT on one character. You'll have to create three distinct characters in order to see the whole of Tamriel.

    Which really REALLY blows for me as somebody who's a one-toon kinda guy! >_<

    Oh, and there's one bigger kicker to this that's the proverbial killer whale waiting to strike at a helpless pup...

    The Nords, Dunmer and Argonians are all in one faction. Their lands? Skyrim, Morrowind and Black Marsh...

    Skyrim and Morrowind were ESIII and ESV respectively. Do you KNOW how many players joined up with those two games!? Do you KNOW how many are going to join that faction JUST because of Morrowind and Skyrim? >_<

    PS. The answer is Elsewyr... you were wondering what the third zone was if you were a Bosmer? It's Elswyr... the home of the Khajit (yup, Altmer/bosmer are allied with the cats. :P)
    Last edited by mvallas; 2012-12-31 at 01:07 AM.
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  5. #1005
    Bloodsail Admiral hiragana's Avatar
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    Personally i love having more than 1 character, so that isnt really an issue for me. Lets all remember though, most of this info is from pre alpha, the devs have already changed lots of things thanks to feedback, they obviously dont mind making drastic changes if they feel enough people want them.

  6. #1006
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Look, I love Skyrim and am into the ES series now thanks to it. but, see, to me there aren't 9 playable races... there's only 4. Humans, elves, Cat people and lizard people.

    Nords, Bretons, imperials and redguards look all exactly the same (possible exception for the Redguard, which has darker skin).

    Dunmer, Altmer, Bosmer and even Orcs look all exactly the same (possible exception for the Dunmer/orcs, which has darker skin).

    Yes - the lore is VERY deep for each of them. The lore, however, doesn't effect jack squat to their outer appearance. Sure, they have 1 or 3 unique racial abilities. I'm not talking the story or gameplay - I'm talking pure esthetics.

    That's why I laughed when I saw the race roster in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Cyborgs!? Seriously!? Humans with tiny bits of metal slapped on their faces? THAT'S A WHOLE NEW RACE!? Compare that to Star Wars: Galaxies, where you had Wookies, Trandoshians (Bosk), Mon Calmari (Admiral "it's a TRAP!" ackbar), ect... It's either that or humans with facepaint of some kind...

    WoW sadly is the ONLY MMORPG today who dares make a race that has a vastly different physical build from each other race. Hell, you can even tell Bloodelves from Nightelves apart easily... even when wearing armor. In Skyrim the only thing that separates the races when wearing armor is a) the voice actor or b) if they have a tail. >_<
    You must have the graphics turned all the way down if you thing dark elves look anything like the other elves or orcs look like the rest. Sure it's hard to tell one human race from the other in Skyrim other than redguards cause they're black. And I'd even agree that high elves and wood elves look the same but it still leaves humans, elves, dark elves, orcs, redguards, cats and lizards as playable races.

    To make more playable would mean sinking to WoW level and twisting lore just to justify this. TES has lots of pretty awesome races like snow elves, dwarves, ogres, dremora, those black Sheogorath guards from Oblivion.. but why would you want to play as one? I'd be happy if I could only be a nord in Skyrim and couldn't care less (although picking racials is interesting). You get to meet, learn about and interact with the other races no matter who you are.

  7. #1007
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    To make more playable would mean sinking to WoW level and twisting lore just to justify this. TES has lots of pretty awesome races like snow elves, dwarves, ogres, dremora, those black Sheogorath guards from Oblivion.. but why would you want to play as one? I'd be happy if I could only be a nord in Skyrim and couldn't care less (although picking racials is interesting). You get to meet, learn about and interact with the other races no matter who you are.
    ...or simply change the proportions on some of the current races. Make Nords taller and more muscular. Make the ALtmer look lith and "noble", and make the Bosmer agilic, poised/slightly crouched for danger, and slightly taller. Change their postures/ready stances... add some custom animation.

    There's not a problem if they do that... but right now they just want everybody to share one animation skeleton... and that's a problem.

    EDIT: And I don't care how high my graphics are - I can't tell a difference between ANY of the races if they're wearing armor, save if they have a cat-tail or a lizard tail. :P
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  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by hiragana View Post
    Personally i love having more than 1 character, so that isnt really an issue for me. Lets all remember though, most of this info is from pre alpha, the devs have already changed lots of things thanks to feedback, they obviously dont mind making drastic changes if they feel enough people want them.
    Aye, which is why we need to be complaining now. I played the "it's still beta guys, chill" game long enough with TOR.
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  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    ...or simply change the proportions on some of the current races. Make Nords taller and more muscular. Make the ALtmer look lith and "noble", and make the Bosmer agilic, poised/slightly crouched for danger, and slightly taller. Change their postures/ready stances... add some custom animation.

    There's not a problem if they do that... but right now they just want everybody to share one animation skeleton... and that's a problem.

    EDIT: And I don't care how high my graphics are - I can't tell a difference between ANY of the races if they're wearing armor, save if they have a cat-tail or a lizard tail. :P
    Well, I agree that they could have used different animations for each race and they probably will in the MMO but everyone only looks the same in full armor and that's not really a big problem. NPCs wear their "racial" armor anyway. Redguards tend wear those ugly pants and turbans, orcs orcish and hide armors, Thalmor elven armor etc. so it mostly affect only the player and your followers if you give them different armor. It's still a fairly minor detail and I think there are hundreds of other things they can improve before that. Besides, it needs to be changed in the MMO anyway as enemy factions need to be more easily identifiable, I think.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Aye, which is why we need to be complaining now. I played the "it's still beta guys, chill" game long enough with TOR.
    Precisely!

    I mean, look how much has already changed in response to the MASSIVE negative criticism since they first announced it: First person mode got put back in (was originally only going to have third - specifically saying you couldn't play in 1'st)... and gameplay changed to ALL real-time normal/blocking attacks using Elder Scrolls control scheme. (Was originally announced to be white-damage auto-attacks with real-time block/dodge special moves similar to WoW).
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  11. #1011
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Aye, which is why we need to be complaining now. I played the "it's still beta guys, chill" game long enough with TOR.
    Well they do seem to be taking the fans concerns into consideration. So I suppose now is the time voice them before it becomes too late in the development cycle to alter the design choices.

  12. #1012
    Orcs do not look like dunmer or aelid. Seriously. You can make the case that the distinction between a nord and a breton isn't all that great but your stretching it quite a bit when you say orcs look like elves.

  13. #1013
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvallas View Post
    Precisely!

    I mean, look how much has already changed in response to the MASSIVE negative criticism since they first announced it: First person mode got put back in (was originally only going to have third - specifically saying you couldn't play in 1'st)... and gameplay changed to ALL real-time normal/blocking attacks using Elder Scrolls control scheme. (Was originally announced to be white-damage auto-attacks with real-time block/dodge special moves similar to WoW).
    well, at least they're LISTENING to complaints and criticism and do change their original plans for the game.

    For the races ... we have three human races (Redguard, Breton, Nord) - they most likely share one common ancestor, it's like comparing Khajiit tribe A to Khajiit tribe B. Same for elves.
    You can only hope for enough choices in the character creation process and enough unique physical attributes for each race.

  14. #1014
    Quote Originally Posted by Grantji View Post
    well, at least they're LISTENING to complaints and criticism and do change their original plans for the game.

    For the races ... we have three human races (Redguard, Breton, Nord) - they most likely share one common ancestor, it's like comparing Khajiit tribe A to Khajiit tribe B. Same for elves.
    You can only hope for enough choices in the character creation process and enough unique physical attributes for each race.
    This is complicated but here is a timeline that somewhat explains where the races came from. Keep in mind that TES lore is complex so you might want to dig deeper into the Imperial Library:

    http://www.imperial-library.info/content/merethic-era
    Last edited by Tabbycat; 2012-12-31 at 05:11 PM.

  15. #1015
    Quote Originally Posted by Lizbeth View Post
    To make more playable would mean sinking to WoW level and twisting lore just to justify this.
    I find this sentence funny, considering that the three factions could be called the single largest fuck you to the lore of TES.

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    I find this sentence funny, considering that the three factions could be called the single largest fuck you to the lore of TES.
    How so? The game takes places 1000 years before the elder scrolls games, i feel that gives some room to create lore. Maybe the racism of nords against the Dunmer happened because of what happened in their alliance. Even through they already hate each other in The ESO, maybe it gave them a stronger reason to hate each other?

  17. #1017
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcbeaty View Post
    How so? The game takes places 1000 years before the elder scrolls games, i feel that gives some room to create lore. Maybe the racism of nords against the Dunmer happened because of what happened in their alliance. Even through they already hate each other in The ESO, maybe it gave them a stronger reason to hate each other?
    Exactly what I was going to say, also there was a Q&A and that was addressed in it.

  18. #1018
    Bloodsail Admiral foil's Avatar
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    Since it took Bethesda 3x attempts to make a game designed for consoles, just wonder how many attempts it will take this now console dev to make a pc game again.

  19. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by foil View Post
    Since it took Bethesda 3x attempts to make a game designed for consoles, just wonder how many attempts it will take this now console dev to make a pc game again.
    Well it's developed by a different studio, so I doubt it'd be that terrible, but who knows.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by mcbeaty View Post
    How so? The game takes places 1000 years before the elder scrolls games, i feel that gives some room to create lore. Maybe the racism of nords against the Dunmer happened because of what happened in their alliance. Even through they already hate each other in The ESO, maybe it gave them a stronger reason to hate each other?
    And Elder Scrolls history is written for far longer period than that and in rather great detail while at it. First Elder Scrolls, Arena, happens roughly at 390 years into Third Era, and if we are to go 1000 of them behind on that, by then Dunmer had pillaged, conquered and enslaved Argonian and the Blackmarsh for hundreds to thousands of years and would continue to do so for almoust the entire of the 1000 years even with Empire's blessing once it was rebuilt as Dunmer demanded special conditions and upholding of their traditions coming from times immemorial if they were join to Empire. The slavery wasn't really abolished until events of Morrowind and even then it was still widely practiced.

    That sets up quite nice Argonian/Dunmerian relations, doesn't it? I'm sure they're all "well grudge grudge meh lets just do it!"

    How about Nords then? Well, xenophopic nords on their arrival drove every single elf they could find off the Skyrim and over next hundreds of years annexed much of the north, including Morrowind.

    While after the breaking of the First Empire there was not so much hostilities between Dunmer and Nords the two races certainly never looked eye to eye, thanks to the pre-mentioned xenophobia that was thickly ingrained to both races and then the grudges of the past.

    Any sort of alliance between these 3 factions is outright impossibility if going by the very established lore of TES, but hey...

    Exactly what I was going to say, also there was a Q&A and that was addressed in it.
    ...of course they have to address it somehow to try to steer off the mess that should never have happened in the first place.

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