1. #1101
    Quote Originally Posted by peggleftw View Post
    will this game have 360 controller support? any details on this? i much prefered skyrim with controller than i did mouse/keyboard, but it might be a bit hard with the action bar.
    From their twitter:

    Elder Scrolls Online ‏@TESOnline

    @D0nJ0seph Our current plans are for keyboard & mouse only. These previews talk more about #ESO's controls: http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/new...event-coverage

  2. #1102
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabbycat View Post
    From their twitter:

    Elder Scrolls Online ‏@TESOnline

    @D0nJ0seph Our current plans are for keyboard & mouse only. These previews talk more about #ESO's controls: http://elderscrollsonline.com/en/new...event-coverage
    This makes me very very happy. Games that are developed with controller support from the ground up are usually "eh" on mouse/keyboard.

  3. #1103
    Better be f2p, or Im not getting...


    Join us if you are Alliance on Darkspear, image says it all

  4. #1104
    Quote Originally Posted by yack346 View Post
    Better be f2p, or Im not getting...
    god forbid people want to make money off their product.

  5. #1105
    I'd prefer it to be subscription free. Buy to play with a cosmetic shop, such as in The Secret World. That would be ideal in my opinion.

  6. #1106
    Quote Originally Posted by Drewan View Post
    god forbid people want to make money off their product.
    You can easily make money off a free to play model else why would MMO companies choose that over sub based? Clearly F2p is more profitable than sub since players have an unlimited spending pool while sub based you spending is only 15 a month? Or you can be like EA and have your subbers pay for both a sub and cartel coins which is a good way to make money.

  7. #1107
    Quote Originally Posted by Drewan View Post
    god forbid people want to make money off their product.
    F2P or freemium has proven to be more profitable than subscription only for the vast majority of games (i.e. every major game but WoW, EVE and Rift so far). And given the current market and the trends of business models, launching with a subscription only model would be more of a negative than a positive, as it would turn off a lot of players to the game.

    F2P/freemium is very profitable. Very. See This report for some context.

  8. #1108
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    F2P or freemium has proven to be more profitable than subscription only for the vast majority of games (i.e. every major game but WoW, EVE and Rift so far). And given the current market and the trends of business models, launching with a subscription only model would be more of a negative than a positive, as it would turn off a lot of players to the game.

    F2P/freemium is very profitable. Very. See (can't post links)report for some context.
    Right and your link says there are 50 million mmo players in US which has 300 million total population, your link is complete garbage and it's not fact but just an organization putting out some falsely numbers.

    From I read the average f2p player spends 1-6$ total dependently what country they live and riot them self has said only around 5-10% of there playbase spend any money at all.

    After reading more about your linked rapport it seems they count every single game even iphone games and web browser game as mmo that's the reason why they saying there are 50 million mmo players in US and f2p has been growing so fast.

  9. #1109
    Quote Originally Posted by Akkep View Post
    Right and your link says there are 50 million mmo players in US which has 300 million total population, your link is complete garbage and it's not fact but just an organization putting out some falsely numbers.

    From I read the average f2p player spends 1-6$ total dependently what country they live and riot them self has said only around 5-10% of there playbase spend any money at all.

    After reading more about your linked rapport it seems they count every single game even iphone games and web browser game as mmo that's the reason why they saying there are 50 million mmo players in US and f2p has been growing so fast.
    FYI Newzoo is actually a pretty good source for market research/data and are used frequently by reporters and analysts alike, same with Superdata.

    Here's an estimate of Riot's daily income: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...p#.UPycf2dAYdU

    $5-10 million daily estimated revenue from a guy whose job it is to be knowledgeable about the F2P market.

    Also, for further evidence: Look at the MMO's of the past 5 years. With few exceptions (Rift and Warhammer...and Warhammer is basically dead), all have made the F2P/freemium transition and seen success through it. If F2P/freemium wasn't a viable model, or a model that generated higher revenues than subscription only for games with moderate sized playerbases, you wouldn't see games continuing to make the transition.

    Browser MMO's a la Runescape or the upcoming City of Steam are absolutely MMO's, they're just played through a browser instead of a client. You're correct on the inclusion of some of the mobile games (though some are MMO's as well such as the Gameloft WoW clone Order and Chaos) skewing the numbers, and I'd love to see some more targeted data, but it's in-line with the rise in cash shop based revenue over the years which can be attributed to both the growth of mobile and the improved viability of F2P games with cash shops.

  10. #1110
    Quote Originally Posted by Akkep View Post
    From I read the average f2p player spends 1-6$ total dependently what country they live and riot them self has said only around 5-10% of there playbase spend any money at all.
    I heard that the average F2p mmo player spends 20 dollars a month which is more than a sub fee. Also the majority of F2p players do not spend any money. The game makes money off of "Whales" which are players who spend a ton of cash on a f2p game each month.

  11. #1111
    If an MMO is going to be sub based these days it better be one damn good MMO or else it won't make it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they added elements to the game for a future F2P conversion.

  12. #1112
    Quote Originally Posted by wombinator04 View Post
    If an MMO is going to be sub based these days it better be one damn good MMO or else it won't make it.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they added elements to the game for a future F2P conversion.
    Honestly, it would be a much better move to either launch with a freemium model, or launch with a B2P model similar to TSW as it has an optional subscription. They need to have a flexible business model if they're going to capitalize on launch and maintain momentum.

  13. #1113
    Personally, I hope it's like GW2. Buy the box and you get everything, no sub, no pay 2 win, no paying for extra content. And if they do have a cash shop, be for cosmetics only

  14. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drewan View Post
    Personally, I hope it's like GW2. Buy the box and you get everything, no sub, no pay 2 win, no paying for extra content. And if they do have a cash shop, be for cosmetics only
    I can agree on a level but there are drawbacks, the lack of content started biting me about 2 months in and that real focus on the RNG chests each event with a slim to zero chance of returns from buying them if they were only cosmetic
    If Eldar scrolls does have a sub fee I hope they look to Trions account record with content where you feel like your sub is actually worth paying each month
    If everything I do is wrong then by god ill do it right

  15. #1115
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    FYI Newzoo is actually a pretty good source for market research/data and are used frequently by reporters and analysts alike, same with Superdata.

    Here's an estimate of Riot's daily income:

    $5-10 million daily estimated revenue from a guy whose job it is to be knowledgeable about the F2P market.

    Also, for further evidence: Look at the MMO's of the past 5 years. With few exceptions (Rift and Warhammer...and Warhammer is basically dead), all have made the F2P/freemium transition and seen success through it. If F2P/freemium wasn't a viable model, or a model that generated higher revenues than subscription only for games with moderate sized playerbases, you wouldn't see games continuing to make the transition.

    Browser MMO's a la Runescape or the upcoming City of Steam are absolutely MMO's, they're just played through a browser instead of a client. You're correct on the inclusion of some of the mobile games (though some are MMO's as well such as the Gameloft WoW clone Order and Chaos) skewing the numbers, and I'd love to see some more targeted data, but it's in-line with the rise in cash shop based revenue over the years which can be attributed to both the growth of mobile and the improved viability of F2P games with cash shops.
    Again you come with research that is f2p advocate, it does not make it a fact and I can say with 99,9% certainly that number is Bs there is no way the average f2p spends 3-6$ a month. Majority of f2p players don't spend a single $. Instead of linking to research, link to a game that breaks down the how much money the average player spend and how much money that game is making. That will make it a fact.

    The other games you mention were failures and still is failures after the f2p transition, the fact is the 3 biggest mmo in NA/EU is Wow, Gw2 and swtor in that order and they are not f2p games, except swtor now.

  16. #1116
    Quote Originally Posted by Akkep View Post
    Again you come with research that is f2p advocate, it does not make it a fact and I can say with 99,9% certainly that number is Bs there is no way the average f2p spends 3-6$ a month. Majority of f2p players don't spend a single $. Instead of linking to research, link to a game that breaks down the how much money the average player spend and how much money that game is making. That will make it a fact.

    The other games you mention were failures and still is failures after the f2p transition, the fact is the 3 biggest mmo in NA/EU is Wow, Gw2 and swtor in that order and they are not f2p games, except swtor now.
    When they say average they dont mean every single player is spending money, they are taking the total amount of money spent by the total number of players. And if you read my post instead of just reading edge's youll see where i talk about "Whales" which are players who spend an enormous amount of money each month on a single game. Think D3's RMAH. I am person who has never bought a single item off of it. While there are players out their who have spent thousands of dollars on it. The same applies to a F2P game.

    I used to play maplestory and in my 5 years of playing that F2P game i prolly spent around $1,500 dollars. Ive played WoW starting somtime in 2008, I just went back and looked at my payment history and it came to a total of $849. Add a few server transfers and i have spent around $924 on World of warcraft that is also including buying expansions which is included in the $849. So in my roughly 4 years of playing WoW i spent a little more than half of what i spent playing a game i played for roughly 5 years.

    This is why F2P games make money, because you have ppl in the community that will spend money if you allow them too. Just look at how ppl in the WoW community jump to buy new pets and mounts in the blizz store. If blizz sold cosmetic armor a ton of ppl would buy that too and that stuff costs more than a sub fee.

  17. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    When they say average they dont mean every single player is spending money, they are taking the total amount of money spent by the total number of players. And if you read my post instead of just reading edge's youll see where i talk about "Whales" which are players who spend an enormous amount of money each month on a single game. Think D3's RMAH. I am person who has never bought a single item off of it. While there are players out their who have spent thousands of dollars on it. The same applies to a F2P game.

    I used to play maplestory and in my 5 years of playing that F2P game i prolly spent around $1,500 dollars. Ive played WoW starting somtime in 2008, I just went back and looked at my payment history and it came to a total of $849. Add a few server transfers and i have spent around $924 on World of warcraft that is also including buying expansions which is included in the $849. So in my roughly 4 years of playing WoW i spent a little more than half of what i spent playing a game i played for roughly 5 years.

    This is why F2P games make money, because you have ppl in the community that will spend money if you allow them too. Just look at how ppl in the WoW community jump to buy new pets and mounts in the blizz store. If blizz sold cosmetic armor a ton of ppl would buy that too and that stuff costs more than a sub fee.
    Yeah those FTP games with cash store like ME3 tend to be more rewarding for the publishers since they would not do so if it was not profitable.

    I spend 100€ on the ME3 MP store for example (those packs) and if I look at my WoW payment history then I start crying because in those numerous years I did quite a few server transfers/race changes/faction changes) so yeah I think if ESO is FTP with a store then they would definitely make a good cut.

  18. #1118
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeek Daniels View Post
    When they say average they dont mean every single player is spending money, they are taking the total amount of money spent by the total number of players. And if you read my post instead of just reading edge's youll see where i talk about "Whales" which are players who spend an enormous amount of money each month on a single game. Think D3's RMAH. I am person who has never bought a single item off of it. While there are players out their who have spent thousands of dollars on it. The same applies to a F2P game.

    I used to play maplestory and in my 5 years of playing that F2P game i prolly spent around $1,500 dollars. Ive played WoW starting somtime in 2008, I just went back and looked at my payment history and it came to a total of $849. Add a few server transfers and i have spent around $924 on World of warcraft that is also including buying expansions which is included in the $849. So in my roughly 4 years of playing WoW i spent a little more than half of what i spent playing a game i played for roughly 5 years.

    This is why F2P games make money, because you have ppl in the community that will spend money if you allow them too. Just look at how ppl in the WoW community jump to buy new pets and mounts in the blizz store. If blizz sold cosmetic armor a ton of ppl would buy that too and that stuff costs more than a sub fee.
    Maplestory is a good example that actually has fact how much a f2p game earns. Maplestory gross sale is total of 1.8 billion dollars 2005-2011 totally and has 92 million registered users (more than lol) by 2009, so they probably has more users now.
    In 2007 5.9 million registered users in the US and they spent 29.3 million $ that year which show the average user don't spend a lot of money in fact only around 10% of f2p player spend any money at all. "With $30m in US sales and 6m US registered users, assuming a 20% "active player" rate and 10% "buyer rate" from interview with them. Which suggest average 2$ a month for average US f2p.

    So yes you maybe spend a lot of money in f2p but most players don't spend any. And edgecrusher was giving links f2p advocate research suggesting League of legends was earning 3 billion dollar a year and and worldwide f2p spends 5-10 dollars a month which is just garbage.

    Unfortunately I can't post links as I don't have enough posts.
    Last edited by Akkep; 2013-01-21 at 06:45 PM.

  19. #1119
    Quote Originally Posted by Akkep View Post
    Again you come with research that is f2p advocate, it does not make it a fact and I can say with 99,9% certainly that number is Bs there is no way the average f2p spends 3-6$ a month. Majority of f2p players don't spend a single $. Instead of linking to research, link to a game that breaks down the how much money the average player spend and how much money that game is making. That will make it a fact.

    The other games you mention were failures and still is failures after the f2p transition, the fact is the 3 biggest mmo in NA/EU is Wow, Gw2 and swtor in that order and they are not f2p games, except swtor now.
    I would argue that they are absolutely not failures. Look at the game that didn't make the transition: Warhammer. That game has one server per region with only one active guild per server (as per my friend who jumped back in early last year to check the game out again). It gets no meaningful content updates and basically sits there in limbo.

    The games that have made the transition, are continuing to get meaningful content updates to provide players with more to do. They're generally keeping the same rate of content development as they were pre-transition, so we can assume that at the very least the transitioned helped stabilize them and keep them from losing more players.

    And As you said, SWTOR is F2P now because it couldn't survive as a subscription based game. Those are the three biggest if you're talking about the West, but Aion would probably rank second if you took global numbers into account for it.

    As for some research and hard numbers:

    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...rs-better-arpu
    http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...om-key-players

    Enjoy : )

  20. #1120
    We're talking that projected so far, we're looking at a GW2 style play, with actually End Game content. I see a ton of content thats said to be included... if it comes out the way it's supposed to then I see no reason why you guys are even mentioning it might be F2P. GW is great, but GW with Endgame is better. Many people would play GW2 over a game like say Rift if it had endgame, so if Rift is making $15 a month and GW2 with Endgame would be better, why would they not charge? Besides quality of game there are most definately enough Elder Scrolls fans out there to support it. If this game comes out, not even better, but even as good as it's supposed to be, you can expect there will also be a draw from WoW. You don't always have to win the popularity contest to not lose. Choices will be made, people will choose 1 game over another. I don't really see this game failing though. There's been too much input from too many different groups. Pro-Pvper's, End Game WoW raiding guilds. I just don't see it tanking.

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