1. #1221
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Holy shit; dailies, character models, Tol Barad, how is any of this related to the discussion, and how are you still denying that you don't have an anti-WoW agenda? It's also hilarious that you think "no flying in elf starting zone" is anywhere as significant as the "you can't explore more than half of the world" issue in ESO.

    Mentioning one WoW aspect doesn't mean I agree with the entire game, there are still reasons why I quit. And "you people"? Wipe the foam off your jaws, your rabid is showing. I haven't played the game in 2 years, but I'm not enough of an idiot to forget why they have more than double the amount of subscribers than the game next in line. There are good aspects of WoW, and one of them is the freedom of the world.

    Are you honestly defending restriction? Tell me, I would like you to say it, because that's what you're doing. You're defending restrictions and denying freedom in the game.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 11:24 AM ----------



    And now you're being racist. No wonder you have a tendency for "you people".
    Well get your facts right first. It has the most subscribers cause half the player base comes from the Asian countries. And probably a good portion of them are gold farmers.

    So when you look at the finer details, WoW basically has a player base of 2 -3 million in NA and a few million in Europe. Since none of the recent MMOs have hardly gone world wide. And WoW was an RTS game before it became an MMo something asians have a thing for. And if Pandaland wasn't released to patronize the Asians.

    And I have not only touched on one aspect of wow.

    Listen I don't care to continue this discussion any further. You stop comparing and expecting TES;O to be a WoW2. Then you have the player base bitching that the recent MMO is just a WoW clone. Deal with the game or you don't need to play it.

  2. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by wynterlyn View Post
    Well get your facts right first. It has the most subscribers cause half the player base comes from the Asian countries. And probably a good portion of them are gold farmers.
    Firstly, you do realize that for gold farmers to sell gold, they'd have to play on Western servers, meaning the fact that they're Asian at all is irrelevant since they'd be paying NA/EU prices, right? Those of you who point out the gold farmers issue always seem to forget that little logic jump, it's amusing.

    So when you look at the finer details, WoW basically has a player base of 2 -3 million in NA and a few million in Europe. Since none of the recent MMOs have hardly gone world wide. And WoW was an RTS game before it became an MMo something asians have a thing for. And if Pandaland wasn't released to patronize the Asians.

    And I have not only touched on one aspect of wow.

    Listen I don't care to continue this discussion any further. You stop comparing and expecting TES;O to be a WoW2. Then you have the player base bitching that the recent MMO is just a WoW clone. Deal with the game or you don't need to play it.
    This "discussion" has been completely idiotic, and that hasn't been any fault of mine. All I mentioned was that the game should have freedom and there should be no invisible walls. That hardly means I want a WoW2, you keep conveniently forgetting that I'm not even a WoW player. WoW was merely an example I used; plenty of games have open worlds, and I would like ESO to have that too. Most of this discussion hasn't even been about ESO, it's been you attacking WoW for no reason at all, mentioning points that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Why? Because you don't care to discuss the real issue here, you just want to bash WoW, when I'm not really pro-WoW in the first place. I just mentioned it because it has the freedom of world that ESO should have, not because "WoW has it ESO should have it too", but because of relevant details that I mentioned in my first post.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

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  3. #1223
    Fluffy Kitten Remilia's Avatar
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    Quit the pointless bickering and veiled insults

  4. #1224
    I included a couple of haikus with my application. I'm thinking it's a strong application.

  5. #1225
    Signed up to the beta with a 'excellent' chance of getting in. Here's hoping; would love for there to finally be a viable WoW alternative that doesn't die in less than a year.

  6. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holyana View Post
    Just doesn't jive well for me, not what I'm used to in an mmorpg. Also, the Skyrim type of controls give me motion sickness. If I can't turn and look like I do on WoW, Rift, LOTRO, etc etc- I'm not going to be able to play it. It starts off with quickly getting a headache, then quickly getting a feeling like I'm going to puke.

    I remember the first time a long time ago that I saw a friend playing Doom, any type of first person game, or even a 3rd person game with the wrong type of looking around controls does it to me. I don't think that any game maker ever takes that into account when they make a game, but hopefully this game will keep with the same mmorpg style controls of turning left and right instead of strafe with the movement keys and look to a direction with the mouse as they have previously in their games.
    I find the wow/mmo style of control to be off putting and immersion breaking, if you are the character how exactly are you to see behind you without looking in that direction? it gives the game a disconnecting rts feel that is not welcome for an rpg and especially an elder scrolls game, I would still play it and enjoy it but it would feel less like elder scrolls and more like just another wow clone. (it may be but making it feel like one is a mistake)
    You have my sympathy for the sick feeling but NOTHING comes before my precious immersion in an elder scrolls game.

  7. #1227
    seeing you guys argue over pvp. my god.. seriously.. no one cares to be ganked which is what 90% of world pvp is about. if you want real honest to goodness pvp in the world. then use the rift/guildwars 2 system for dynamic events that involve the cities and faction leaders. wow could do this in a heartbeat. .but they wont. imagine attacks on the capitols of the wow that happen randomly and your rewarded loot/honor based on your contribution. all world pvp needs is rewards and a reason to fight and it will be back with a vengence. with cross realm zones you even solve the unbalancing factor of horde/alliance on some servers by adding more people to the zone.

    right now you kill a faction leader you get nothing but bread.. maybe a world drop green.. and you wonder why people dont perticipate? reward players for defending the cities and reward them for a succesful attack.. blizzard could fix world pvp in one patch.. but they wont they want you in arenas and rated battlegrounds.

  8. #1228
    World PvP is fun, but not having structured (perhaps even ranked!?) PvP means I likely won't be picking up the highly anticipated title.

  9. #1229
    Quote Originally Posted by rol3x View Post
    I find the wow/mmo style of control to be off putting and immersion breaking, if you are the character how exactly are you to see behind you without looking in that direction? it gives the game a disconnecting rts feel that is not welcome for an rpg and especially an elder scrolls game, I would still play it and enjoy it but it would feel less like elder scrolls and more like just another wow clone. (it may be but making it feel like one is a mistake)
    You have my sympathy for the sick feeling but NOTHING comes before my precious immersion in an elder scrolls game.
    Quote Originally Posted by McTurbo View Post
    seeing you guys argue over pvp. my god.. seriously.. no one cares to be ganked which is what 90% of world pvp is about. if you want real honest to goodness pvp in the world. then use the rift/guildwars 2 system for dynamic events that involve the cities and faction leaders. wow could do this in a heartbeat. .but they wont. imagine attacks on the capitols of the wow that happen randomly and your rewarded loot/honor based on your contribution. all world pvp needs is rewards and a reason to fight and it will be back with a vengence. with cross realm zones you even solve the unbalancing factor of horde/alliance on some servers by adding more people to the zone.

    right now you kill a faction leader you get nothing but bread.. maybe a world drop green.. and you wonder why people dont perticipate? reward players for defending the cities and reward them for a succesful attack.. blizzard could fix world pvp in one patch.. but they wont they want you in arenas and rated battlegrounds.
    That is exactly what I am trying to say. You have a bunch of people that want everything in other MMOs in TES; I mean TES is a different kind of game. Quit expecting everything that other MMOs have in this game.

    WPVP in WoW is probably the worst example of what PVP is like and that is what everyone has come to expect. No one even bothers these days when the cities are attacked. Everyone is busy trolling Trade chat or doing some other crap.

    I mean you use to have big guilds when mass summon existed and all they would do is grief the role players in hte blue recluse. I mean that isn't what WPVP is about. There is no competitiveness involved. I think what TES have in mind is perfect. The thing is there is such a thin line between WPVP and griefing that it isn't remotely fun.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-23 at 04:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Northy View Post
    World PvP is fun, but not having structured (perhaps even ranked!?) PvP means I likely won't be picking up the highly anticipated title.
    This what you have come to expect from PVP in WoW. You get the elite crowd that thinks everything is fair game. Sure it probably is but they lack any sense of understanding or common sense when it comes to the game. 4 v 1 while you are questing isn't PVPing. Its griefing when you continue to grave yard camp the person.

    That is why I say, WoW has ruined the MMO community and done more harm than good. You have a bunch of elitists that all they care about is some stupid title that they achieve by win trading.

  10. #1230
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    Wasn't mentioned properly, but keep off the Game vs Game and game bashing

  11. #1231
    Then leave out the WPVP points, since you so vehemently abhor them. There still leaves the issue of "the world is significantly smaller". Are you going to say that that's a good thing too? I feel like anyone who would support a smaller world and less opportunities would be lying, honestly.

    Also, I forgot this a while ago, but they actually have built-in systems that would deal with your preference of WPVP. If you don't like WPVP, they won't put you on the same servers/instances/shards/whatever as people who do like WPVP. So that issue is already solved, there's no use arguing against that since you wouldn't deal with it if you don't like it.
    Last edited by vizzle; 2013-01-23 at 04:32 AM.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  12. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Then leave out the WPVP points, since you so vehemently abhor them. There still leaves the issue of "the world is significantly smaller". Are you going to say that that's a good thing too? I feel like anyone who would support a smaller world and less opportunities would be lying, honestly.
    Are you really kidding yourself? How can you say the world is smaller without any proof whatsoever. I mean really?

    At least have some proof first before you go making such baseless claims. On what basis are you saying the world is smaller? Cauise its only 3 regions? We don't know how big each region is going to be. They have not confirmed it nor any specifics have been given. You are assuming and so is everyone else. We will know hopefully what is in store during the BETA. If you have played any of the Elder Scrolls games (which I can pretty much tell you have not) you will know the amount of content that is in each of the games.

    Skyrim may not be as huge as lets say GTA 4 or some of the bigger maps out there, but honestly you have people that have spent more than 300+ hours in 1 Region and still have barely completed the game. There is just so much to do. Sure you have a bunch of the MMO genre folk that prefer to rush from 80-85 or 85-90 in 6 hours. You ain't going to enjoy the game and I can honestly say this MMO isn't for you. If you have any experience with any of TES games you will know that story, lore and exploring play a significant part.

    So before you go about making random claims at least have some credibility.

    For all you know each region in Tamriel could be has big as continents in other games. Its just that this is an entire new concept and Tamriel is quite smaller in land mass compared to other MMO worlds out there. But that doesn't mean they will not scale it?

    P.S I'll happily admit that I am wrong if you can show me any proof regarding anything you have said so far. First of all very little information has been given about the game. From the introduction video that I've seen, the regions look huge and massive. Towns look pretty impressive. So how can you make any claim regarding anything quite frankly? Nothing has even been said besides a couple of things which they have not even got a chance yet of explaining their reasons for them.
    Last edited by wynterlyn; 2013-01-23 at 04:40 AM.

  13. #1233
    Without any proof? Do you not understand math?

    Let's say ESO has 4 main zones. You're only allowed to explore your faction's zone and the PVP zone. That's 2 zones. Okay, you're still with me I hope, so 4 minus 2 is 2, right? It goes 1, 2, 3, 4. 2 is less than 4. 4 is greater than 2. 4 zones are being developed. Only 2 are allowed. 4 > 2. 2 < 4. Still with me?

    No matter how big those 2 zones you're allowed to visit are, it will never be as big as the 4 zones that encompass the world. I'm pretty sure that's self-explanatory but I guess not.

    Those aren't just tiny starter zones either. Those are significant portions of the world that you will never get to see or explore unless you roll an alt, which --as evidenced by TOR-- a lot people do not want to do just to experience other parts of the game. People like their main characters.

    Last edited by vizzle; 2013-01-23 at 04:48 AM.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  14. #1234
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Without any proof? Do you not understand math?

    Let's say ESO has 4 main zones. You're only allowed to explore your faction's zone and the PVP zone. That's 2 zones. Okay, you're still with me I hope, so 4 minus 2 is 2, right? It goes 1, 2, 3, 4. 2 is less than 4. 4 is greater than 2. 4 zones are being developed. Only 2 are allowed. 4 > 2. 2 < 4. Still with me?

    No matter how big those 2 zones you're allowed to visit are, it will never be as big as the 4 zones that encompass the world. I'm pretty sure that's self-explanatory but I guess not.

    Well if I don't know math then I am pretty sure you don't understand english. It doesn't matter how many zones are there. And I don't think you even know how to count. How are there 2 zones? Each faction has 3 alliances. So lets say the Ebonheart Pact get the entirety of Skyrim, Morrowind and the Black Marsh and including Cryodill. So isn't that 4 zones now? Where did you get 2 from.

    That is why I am saying you clearly ain't making any sense and are making claims without any information. Like I said , clearly you have not played any of the TES games.

    Now comparing TES to WOW just to explain to you. If you have played Skyrim you have a few holds and regions. You have Windhelm, Whiterun, the Rift, Solitude, Falkreath, Morkath, Winterhold, Dawnstar and Morthal. So that is 9 holds. What is to say each region isn't the size of say a region in the Easter Kingdoms like say Westfall or Elwynn Forest?

    Then similarly you have places in Morrowind. Elwynn Forest isn't a new country. Neither is Westfall. Neither are the other landmasses surrounding them. In Elder Scrolls you have 3 entire province to choose from.

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Then leave out the WPVP points, since you so vehemently abhor them. There still leaves the issue of "the world is significantly smaller". Are you going to say that that's a good thing too? I feel like anyone who would support a smaller world and less opportunities would be lying, honestly.
    While I agree that breaking the world apart like that is annoying, I can see why they did what they did. You make one big area for PvE and one big area for PvP, while having a pretty big incentive for alt-o-holics.

  16. #1236
    Quote Originally Posted by wynterlyn View Post
    Well if I don't know math then I am pretty sure you don't understand english. It doesn't matter how many zones are there. And I don't think you even know how to count. How are there 2 zones? Each faction has 3 alliances. So lets say the Ebonheart Pact get the entirety of Skyrim, Morrowind and the Black Marsh and including Cryodill. So isn't that 4 zones now? Where did you get 2 from.

    That is why I am saying you clearly ain't making any sense and are making claims without any information. Like I said , clearly you have not played any of the TES games.

    Now comparing TES to WOW just to explain to you. If you have played Skyrim you have a few holds and regions. You have Windhelm, Whiterun, the Rift, Solitude, Falkreath, Morkath, Winterhold, Dawnstar and Morthal. So that is 9 holds. What is to say each region isn't the size of say a region in the Easter Kingdoms like say Westfall or Elwynn Forest?

    Then similarly you have places in Morrowind. Elwynn Forest isn't a new country. Neither is Westfall. Neither are the other landmasses surrounding them. In Elder Scrolls you have 3 entire province to choose from.
    Of course I'm not going to bother to count down every tiny little zone, zone was the term I used for ease. Would you be happy if I used the term continent? It doesn't change the fucking point.

    Look at the map I linked. You're not allowed to explore half of the world. You can only explore 2 continents out of 4, and it significantly makes the game smaller.

    Stop skidding past the main points in my posts, it's childish. We both know what I meant by "zones" in the last post.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  17. #1237
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    Of course I'm not going to bother to count down every tiny little zone, zone was the term I used for ease. Would you be happy if I used the term continent? It doesn't change the fucking point.

    Look at the map I linked. You're not allowed to explore half of the world. You can only explore 2 continents out of 4, and it significantly makes the game smaller.

    Stop skidding past the main points in my posts, it's childish. We both know what I meant by "zones" in the last post.
    LoL. You as still saying 2 continents? Where are you getting 2 from?

    Ok hope you can read the map. I am going to tell you what "continents" you can explore. Ok Look for these names on the map. If you join the Ebonheart Pact, you can explore Skyrim, Morrowind, and the Black Marsh as well as Cyrodill.

    And those 3 ain't zones and neither are they "1" entire continent. They are each individual regions by themselves. Its like you can't count Eastern Kingdom and Kalimdor as one.
    Last edited by wynterlyn; 2013-01-23 at 04:58 AM.

  18. #1238
    What term would you be happy with? Would you like me to call them colors, because that's the only thing I think you won't be able to sleight of hand. But I wouldn't be surprised if you say something like "DON'T YOU SEE ALL THE DIFFERENT SHADES HUR DUR!?"

    Will you stop nitpicking the term and go to the point that is so obviously being made? Whatever you want to call it, half of the world is untouchable by a single character. It makes the world smaller.
    Why am I back here, I don't even play these games anymore

    The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.

  19. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by wynterlyn View Post
    LoL. You as still saying 2 continents? Where are you getting 2 from?

    Ok hope you can read the map. I am going to tell you what "continents" you can explore. Ok Look for these names. If you join the Ebonheart Pact, you can explore Skyrim, Morrowind, and the Black Marsh as well as Cyrodill.
    I don't mean to butt into somebody else's debate, but the number of continents don't matter. Obviously none of these numbers are accurate, but if there are 12 continents split into two factions, you can only explore 6. If there are 4 continents, you can only explore 2. If there are 300 continents, you can only explore 150. The only way to be able to travel the whole game then would be to play both factions. Some of us don't like that.

  20. #1240
    Quote Originally Posted by vizzle View Post
    What term would you be happy with? Would you like me to call them colors, because that's the only thing I think you won't be able to sleight of hand. But I wouldn't be surprised if you say something like "DON'T YOU SEE ALL THE DIFFERENT SHADES HUR DUR!?"

    Will you stop nitpicking the term and go to the point that is so obviously being made? Whatever you want to call it, half of the world is untouchable by a single character. It makes the world smaller.
    IT doesn't matter. The game was designed with that mind. I am done discussing this with you. You really talk like someone that has no experience with any of the TES game. Seriously. Get over it. They ain't going to change their design regardless what you say.

    Its not like as an Alliance you can go to Ghostlands and quest in there or go to the Ghostlands and complete quests as Alliance.

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