[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online (See NDA Sticky)

[lolalola]

Most likely by their developers or publishers. The only one I know of that was "killed" recently was CoH.

Let me rephrase: dethroned. How were they dethroned?

I mean "killing" is such a. Ugh. Its such a loaded term. Kill a game. Murder it. Only possible figural. When is it killed? 0 market share? I certainly meant "not the market leader any more."

But even that, what does it matter? Who gives a rat who is the market leader? The market leader isn't necessarily the best. There are countless and I mean countless of examples which prove otherwise. And market leader is just a perception. Of which market? In my opinion a subscription-based MMORPG isn't even necessarily competing with a non-subscription-based game.

The whole discussion of "WoW killer" is just a red herring, an irrelevant discussion. Its also a gigantic can of worms and a flame bait. It is best to be left alone and let it rot.

...but I'd still like to know who were the previous market leaders in the MMORPG field, and why were they dethroned.

[Nerevar]

I hope they dont. If ppl want to play in those territories they can just make characters of that faction. Does a Alliance player do horde quests? Does a Charr have the same personal story as a human? Does a sith lord learn the ways of a jedi? (unless he was a jedi to start with). These zones PvE wise are said to be about the factions that control them and how each part of the facton interacts with each other. Why would other factions be involved in those zones.

I really dont see a legit reason to allow characters from other factions to go into those other faction zones unless dungeons or raids are zone locked. Which is one thing i dont get. Are there gonna be 3 different raids one in each faction zone? or are all raids gonna take place in the World PvP zone.

I think we should just wait till we get clarity on some of these things.

How about a reason of something new? Why follow these faction standarts? A lot of people on bethesda forums dislike this faction lock specifically because of the "freedom" it removes.

And perhaps not the same quests, but different for different factions in different locations? Sure, that's a lot more work, but would be nice. This faction lock also restricts factions to visit other factions locations, so you can't even explore them. But I'm not sure about that, just saw some negative comments about this.

[edgecrusher]

...but I'd still like to know who were the previous market leaders in the MMORPG field, and why were they dethroned.

Ultima Online saw losses to EQ1, which went on to dominate the market for some years, who revolutionized MMO's by providing a 3d world for players to play in.
EQ1 saw big losses to WoW, which continues to dominate the market, after a mixture of poor development decisions soured a decent chunk of the EQ1 playerbase, and Blizzard introduced a phenomenally well crafted game with their name attached to it.

From those two, it either has to be absolutely mind blowing (the shift from top-down to full 3D worlds) or a combination of a spectacularly designed game launching from a highly reputable developer at a time where the existing "champ" is suffering problems.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if we see another move like this again though. IMO nothing will ever see WoW levels of success again (from a subscription standpoint), but we'll instead of a highly fragmented market with no game being head and shoulders the market leader.

[Tabbycat]

Indeed, it seems WoW's success was simply a mixture of luck and timing.

As a bit of a side note/ misc trivia: The Elder Scrolls Arena was launched March 1994 and Warcraft Orcs and Humans was launched November 1994. So the two franchises are roughly the same age.

[vizzle]

No dealbreaker either. It should actually give 3 times more content if I understand it correct, due to alt longevity. It does put a little bit of nuance to the whole "big server" claim tho. Pretty much makes it 3 different servers.

In WoW you got Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms but then only 1 area from TBC and onwards.
In SWTOR you have 2 factions with 4 classes (times 2 if you include mirror classes) with in total 4 starting planet (number includes mirror classes). The two factions have completely different quests, and each class has their own story line, but it boils down to a small amount of content. Ergo, similar to WoW vanilla.
Not sure about RIFT. GW2 AFAICT has 5 completely different leveling paths. At the very least it has 5 different start areas.
TSW, 3 factions, but apart from a small starting area, its all the same quests AFAIK.

People don't play by alt longevity.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 09:34 AM ----------

I hope they dont. If ppl want to play in those territories they can just make characters of that faction. Does a Alliance player do horde quests? Does a Charr have the same personal story as a human? Does a sith lord learn the ways of a jedi? (unless he was a jedi to start with). These zones PvE wise are said to be about the factions that control them and how each part of the facton interacts with each other. Why would other factions be involved in those zones.

I really dont see a legit reason to allow characters from other factions to go into those other faction zones unless dungeons or raids are zone locked. Which is one thing i dont get. Are there gonna be 3 different raids one in each faction zone? or are all raids gonna take place in the World PvP zone.

I think we should just wait till we get clarity on some of these things.

I really don't understand why you guys supporting this faction lock thing always revert to "why would A be doing B quests!?"

People aren't asking for that. We don't want to do B quests as A faction, we want to be able to go to A and B and C land.

[Tabbycat]

I'm still of the opinion that if your faction crowns the Emperor in Cyrodiil than you should be able to go into all the territories until your emperor is dethroned. At least it would make a darn good reason to crown someone from your side emperor.

[Zeek Daniels]

How about a reason of something new? Why follow these faction standarts? A lot of people on bethesda forums dislike this faction lock specifically because of the "freedom" it removes.

And perhaps not the same quests, but different for different factions in different locations? Sure, that's a lot more work, but would be nice. This faction lock also restricts factions to visit other factions locations, so you can't even explore them. But I'm not sure about that, just saw some negative comments about this.

except u can explore them by creating a character on that faction.

[vizzle]

except u can explore them by creating a character on that faction.

Why is it a positive thing to force a playstyle on people who don't play that way? Some people aren't alt people and hate being forced to do that. It would be so easy to support both playstyles instead of killing off one for no reason other than bullshit artificial game longevity which won't work; if this shit did work, SWTOR would be a much bigger success, being the biggest alt game of them all.

[Laurcus]

Is there a 100% confirmation on the whole zone lock thing, and if so could someone link to a source?

[Tabbycat]

Is there a 100% confirmation on the whole zone lock thing, and if so could someone link to a source?

Players are restricted to exploring the lands of only their own faction, as well as the contested RvR area of Cyrodiil.
This is from what they've said on their twitter: https://twitter.com/TESOnline/with_replies

You may have to do a bit of digging to find it.

[Zeek Daniels]

Why is it a positive thing to force a playstyle on people who don't play that way? Some people aren't alt people and hate being forced to do that. It would be so easy to support both playstyles instead of killing off one for no reason other than bullshit artificial game longevity which won't work; if this shit did work, SWTOR would be a much bigger success, being the biggest alt game of them all.

If you guys wanna be stubborn then be stubborn. But doesnt change the fact they you can still see those zones if you play the game, your choice if you want to choose not to play those races.

-edit-

If they allow ppl into other zones there gonna have to go through and add quest for each faction in each zone. Thats more development time and story. Not to mention the factions are at war. So your prolly going to have to change the factions original zone story to reflect the new zone presence of 2 factions just sitting in your home territory. Not to mention there are no PvP servers to my knowlege. Everything seems to be like GW2 where the is seperate PvE and PvP areas. Meaning the factions we are supposed to be fighting are in our zones and we can only wave as they walk by. It doesnt make sense lore wise. Sure someone brought up the whole spy thing but thats what the PvP area is for.

[Lyriok]

There is no information that would imply this. The only information we have says that players of one faction will be unable to go to areas of another faction.

This is true, I'm just being hopeful as this would be a option to allow us to see SOME areas and have some nice missions involving enemy factions for sneak/stealth based characters. Theres been some form of spying/sabotaging in the past I'm being hopeful for it continue but with infiltration of the enemy.

[wynterlyn]

Why is it a positive thing to force a playstyle on people who don't play that way? Some people aren't alt people and hate being forced to do that. It would be so easy to support both playstyles instead of killing off one for no reason other than bullshit artificial game longevity which won't work; if this shit did work, SWTOR would be a much bigger success, being the biggest alt game of them all.

No one is forcing you to do anything in the game. No one is telling you to level alts. You do it if you want to explore it and if you want to explore the other regions BUT you DON'T have to do it.

I mean look at WoW. No one even goes back to any of the starting areas in Kalimdor or Eastern Kingdoms. I've literally seen no one ever questing in Silithus, Ungoro Crater, Desolace or even Feralas. And same can be said about the regions in the Eastern Kingdoms. And blizz spent so much time redoing entire regions for Cataclysm. I think Cataclysm could be a better expansion if they never spent so much time doing what they did. And even Blizzard admitted their mistake. Cause no one even goes back to check it out.

So what are you crying for I don't understand. It leads me to believe that people will always whine about something only cause they can.

Let me give you an example. Its a very common thing. You give a baby a balloon to play with and she may not want to. Now you give the same balloon to someone else and all of a sudden she wants it. Well it doesn't really reflect the above situation but its kinda what you and some folk are doing.

I mean it isn't any different in WoW too. If you want to experience the quests and lore from both sides you can level a Horde toon or Alliance depending on your faction.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 04:12 AM ----------

If you guys wanna be stubborn then be stubborn. But doesnt change the fact they you can still see those zones if you play the game, your choice if you want to choose not to play those races.

-edit-

If they allow ppl into other zones there gonna have to go through and add quest for each faction in each zone. Thats more development time and story. Not to mention the factions are at war. So your prolly going to have to change the factions original zone story to reflect the new zone presence of 2 factions just sitting in your home territory. Not to mention there are no PvP servers to my knowlege. Everything seems to be like GW2 where the is seperate PvE and PvP areas. Meaning the factions we are supposed to be fighting are in our zones and we can only wave as they walk by. It doesnt make sense lore wise. Sure someone brought up the whole spy thing but thats what the PvP area is for.

I commend you for speaking sense unlike most people on this forum. I mean take Cataclysm for example. IT was such a let down cause they spent so much wasted resources on stuff no one was going to see in the same place and then you had people that didn't know what to do at level 85. I rather ZOS spend their resources perfecting a good end game rather than listening to the people that have no idea what they are talking about.

Also its not like that they said its a permanent thing. They have hinted numerous times that things will open up over the course of future expansions. This is the problem with the current MMO generation. They lack the patience for anything and this is probably the main reason that has resulted in the downfall of many recent MMOs. The thing that these same people forget is that WoW wasn't what it is today when it first launched.

Ask any Vanilla player. There were often no quests that would let you level from 55 onwards till 60. A lot of the quests in Silithus and all were added in future patches to help accommodate the player base. So a lot of people were forced to grind their way either through dungeons or farming mobs in those areas.

I sometimes wish you self absorbed beings could get off your high horse and actually see things from another person's perspective sometimes rather than thinking what you think and have to say is the only right thing.

And if you still have a problem with that you (vizzle) and others can stick to WoW cause the "true" TES fans ain't looking for another WoW 2 here.

---------- Post added 2013-01-25 at 04:13 AM ----------

Players are restricted to exploring the lands of only their own faction, as well as the contested RvR area of Cyrodiil.
This is from what they've said on their twitter: https://twitter.com/TESOnline/with_replies

You may have to do a bit of digging to find it.

They also did say that a lot of the regions are going to be slowly unlocked and expanded on over future expansions. You don't get an entire continent in one play through. I mean you didn't have Kalimdor, Eastern Kingdoms, Northrend and Pandaria in one expansion. You didn't even have Outland though the portal was there in the game.

[vizzle]

Wynterlyn must be mentally retarded because I've stated at least a dozen times that I haven't touched WoW in 2 years.

Yes infract me for this, some things are worth it.


<Infracted: Please post respectfully>

[wynterlyn]

Wynterlyn must be mentally retarded because I've stated at least a dozen times that I haven't touched WoW in 2 years.

Yes infract me for this, some things are worth it.

No one cares when you quit WoW. The thing is that you are expecting TES to be WoW 2 is more than enough and shows your ignorance. And you still have not confirmed if you have played any of the earlier TES RPGS. So lets please clear that up cause I am really curious.

[edgecrusher]

I've always felt that the "rolling alts is intended to experience the full game/see all the content" argument is bullshit. I don't want to play another character, I want to play my own. If I want to roll an alt, it's to play that class, not to finally be able to see all the damn content.

Focusing on alt-play as content, something SWTOR did for a while with its legacy system, is almost as lazy development as focusing on daily quests (which is the lowest of low when it comes to content development). Alts are called alts for a reason, because they're not "your" character. They're alternate characters, optional characters.

The only time it can work is if you actually do provide enough content to make an alt playthrough almost 100% unique, and if there's another compelling reason to do so (SWTOR's storylines, except the game didn't have different leveling paths).

[wynterlyn]

I've always felt that the "rolling alts is intended to experience the full game/see all the content" argument is bullshit. I don't want to play another character, I want to play my own. If I want to roll an alt, it's to play that class, not to finally be able to see all the damn content.

Focusing on alt-play as content, something SWTOR did for a while with its legacy system, is almost as lazy development as focusing on daily quests (which is the lowest of low when it comes to content development). Alts are called alts for a reason, because they're not "your" character. They're alternate characters, optional characters.

The only time it can work is if you actually do provide enough content to make an alt playthrough almost 100% unique, and if there's another compelling reason to do so (SWTOR's storylines, except the game didn't have different leveling paths).

I really can't imagine people already coming to baseless assumptions without them even clarifying their point of view. It makes me wonder if people on here can even understand english. They ain't saying its going to be permanently locked. They have hinted numerous times that they plan on unlocking regions during upcoming expansions. For the time being and from a design point of view they feel like regions need to be locked to have every player immersed in their Faction and actually feel there is a war going on.

And again you ain't forced to level alts. You do it if you want to. Also if any of you clueless folk played any of the previous RPGs, Which I can guarantee from your ignorance have not then you should know that they amount of hours and content that is there in their games is simply mind blowing and blows most MMOs and RPGs out. And I would expect the same dedication and commitment to their MMO so I expect a very active end game for players.

[Lyriok]

Please don't turn the enjoyment of Elder Scrolls games into personal attacks to be human is to have different views and opinions so just be accepting of that and atleast be constructive the insults aren't needed.

I really can't imagine people already coming to baseless assumptions without them even clarifying their point of view. It makes me wonder if people on here can even understand english. They ain't saying its going to be permanently locked. They have hinted numerous times that they plan on unlocking regions during upcoming expansions. For the time being and from a design point of view they feel like regions need to be locked to have every player immersed in their Faction and actually feel there is a war going on.

This goes both ways we simply don't know and there may have been hints but nothing yet is certain.

[wynterlyn]

I've always felt that the "rolling alts is intended to experience the full game/see all the content" argument is bullshit. I don't want to play another character, I want to play my own. If I want to roll an alt, it's to play that class, not to finally be able to see all the damn content.

Focusing on alt-play as content, something SWTOR did for a while with its legacy system, is almost as lazy development as focusing on daily quests (which is the lowest of low when it comes to content development). Alts are called alts for a reason, because they're not "your" character. They're alternate characters, optional characters.

The only time it can work is if you actually do provide enough content to make an alt playthrough almost 100% unique, and if there's another compelling reason to do so (SWTOR's storylines, except the game didn't have different leveling paths).

SWTOR lacked a very compelling end game which led to boredom for a majority of people. PVP was bugged and PVE sucked. Its similar to what we have in Guild Wars 2 currently. Lack of end game. I cannot see it happening and I am pretty sure it will not happen in TES only cause these guys are experience and have a record of delivering content that players can spend hours on end engaged in.

There are players that have literally spent 300+ hours in Skyrim and Morrowind and have still not experienced everything the game has to offer excluding the DLCs.

You are contradicting yourself now in those last few lines. This is exactly what ZOS are doing. They are offering different story lines and levelling paths for those that want to experience the other side and only if they want to. They ain't forced. So you are warm to the idea of something similar. And you just confirmed it.

P.S Now tell me what you said and what they are doing isn't the same thing are you just intent on having one sided arguments?

[wynnyelle]

I really can't imagine people already coming to baseless assumptions without them even clarifying their point of view. It makes me wonder if people on here can even understand english. They ain't saying its going to be permanently locked. They have hinted numerous times that they plan on unlocking regions during upcoming expansions. For the time being and from a design point of view they feel like regions need to be locked to have every player immersed in their Faction and actually feel there is a war going on.

And again you ain't forced to level alts. You do it if you want to. Also if any of you clueless folk played any of the previous RPGs, Which I can guarantee from your ignorance have not then you should know that they amount of hours and content that is there in their games is simply mind blowing and blows most MMOs and RPGs out. And I would expect the same dedication and commitment to their MMO so I expect a very active end game for players.

You act like because we want to be able to explore the world in its entirety, that automatically means that we want the game to be WoW 2.0. You've basically been saying that people who disagree with this decision are WoW fanboys, and yet you don't dare disagree with anything related to ESO design. There is nothing immersive about being locked out of a zone. It's just poor and lazy design, and there isn't any sort of logical reason for it (even if it did help immersion, that's a stupid reason to do it. Gameplay > immersion). I don't want to roll an alt. I want to play on my main character, and it's stupid that I can't explore a pretty large chunk of the game world because of that. So go ahead and call me ignorant for disagreeing with you, but that doesn't make you right.