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  1. #221
    Brewmaster jahasafrat's Avatar
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    I love me some vegetables, but I could never go vegetarian. I just love animal flesh too much.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I would like to see a human run down any animal in the wild and try to kill it with their teeth alone. That would tell me (in my opinion) if humans are suppose to really eat meat or not.
    LOL. Humans evolved to capture meat in a social, co-operative way.

    We can live off meat or we can live off plants, either way it keeps us alive and gives us the energy we need to keep going.
    Well - I know that isn't the case for me, meat is the only viable source of protein for me.

  3. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by schwarzkopf View Post
    LOL. Humans evolved to capture meat in a social, co-operative way.


    Well - I know that isn't the case for me, it is the only viable source of protein for me.
    In your mind maybe, But you can live off plants just fine. You will not die from not eating meat lol.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrin View Post
    No for the first point, correct for the second point. A 'calorie' is a unit of energy, that energy is gained through digestion based on everything you mentioned. IF calories in = calories out you won't change weight. If the number is positive you gain, negative and you lose weight. Since an organism obtains calories based on the things you mentioned that organism needs to ingest based upon those things to obtain the correct amount of calories they generate from the ingestion.
    You're being too simplistic. Yes, a calorie is a unit of energy. A calorimeter, however, cannot measure how your body partitions the energy and what amount of the food actually is burned for energy vs what is used for other biochemical processes. Calories in =/= calories out.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrin View Post
    Love tomatoes too; however two tomatoes grown on the same plant in the same season and at the same time are not 100% identical nor are identical nutritionally. You're splitting hairs. Nobody has been able to show any evidence that a GMO product is inferior to an organically grown product or vice versa. Not to mention that many 'locally grown' tomatoes that are not GMO are done hydroponically and are still indistinguishable (many places buy them because they are always the same size, color, and shape and fit into SOP's better). Personally I use organically grown tomatoes that I grow in my garden in the summer and greenhouse in the winter. This is ONLY for economic purposes.
    I'm not arguing with you. But yes, I'm being nit-picky. The difference is miniscule. It's insignificant enough that you can call the two products similar. They just aren't identical. And yes I agree... taste wise they are exactly the same as a regular old hydroponic tomato. Picking them too early, shipping them long distances in refrigerated trucks... all makes for a tasteless tomato (the horror). You really don't taste a difference? Not that this thread/argument is about taste, but you have to admit there is a difference between eating a tomato off the vine and eating one from the grocery store that came all the way from the valley.
    Last edited by Taygete; 2012-05-05 at 05:21 AM.

  6. #226
    Did you know that there were a few branches of human ancestors a few millions of years ago? One of those branches was a humanoid with very powerful jaws and was eating only plants. He could easily eat any kind of plant - grass, leaves, small twigs.
    Too bad the vegeterian ancestor didn't survive the evolution and contemprory humans are meat-eating predators.

  7. #227
    Bloodsail Admiral Antherios's Avatar
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    I love vegetables, but i love meat more.

    Gotta have them steak :P

  8. #228
    I once dated a vegetarian but she wasn't militant about it. The thing about being a vegetarian is that you can't be lazy. There are a lot of great meals from all over the world that don't rely on meat. You just have to get cookbooks and actually cook.

    I don't eat as much meat as I used to. The average person eats low end meat anyway. People should just eat 1/3 of the meat they do now but spend the same amount of money and get meat that's three times the quality. You can also get much better meat that doesn't come from those horrific slaughter houses.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Aalyy View Post
    You're being too simplistic. Yes, a calorie is a unit of energy. A calorimeter, however, cannot measure how your body partitions the energy and what amount of the food actually is burned for energy vs what is used for other biochemical processes. Calories in =/= calories out.
    Calories in always equals calories out. I'm not trying to sound condescending but you're the one being to simplistic. A calorie IS a unit of energy, its finite, defined, and unchanging. What food PROVIDES as far as calories changes based on everything you very wisely mentioned. The number on a label does not represent the calories an organism will gain but whatever the regulating agency obtained from a calorimeter or another device able to measure biological samples. I really think we're on the same page on this. A calorimeter cannot determine what an ORGANISM will do with food only what heat energy is generated from that food. This is why I tried (maybe I failed) to specify that an organism needs to moderate it's intake based on it's caloric needs regardless of almost arbitrary numbers.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    It has actually been proven that eating meat can shorten the human life span by a few years. Now I'm not telling people to stop eating meat or anything but personally I think being a vegetarian is a good choice. You can get all of the nutrients you need from Fruits and Vegetables.

    For me there is just something weird about eating a dead corpse.
    That is because people who eat meat are more susceptible to dieing from meat borne illnesses like e. coli and salmonella. However if you cook your food properly that isnt a problem. Another reason is probably if the same people are eating a lot of saturated fat and bad cholesterol from eating fatty meats but if you eat a balanced diet and exercise its also not a problem.

  11. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by theunit187 View Post
    Did you know that there were a few branches of human ancestors a few millions of years ago? One of those branches was a humanoid with very powerful jaws and was eating only plants. He could easily eat any kind of plant - grass, leaves, small twigs.
    Too bad the vegeterian ancestor didn't survive the evolution and contemprory humans are meat-eating predators.
    supposed, teeth do not designate food intake. digestive mechanisms do. That is not available in fosil or bone records.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 05:32 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Taygete View Post
    I'm not arguing with you. But yes, I'm being nit-picky. The difference is miniscule. It's insignificant enough that you can call the two products similar. They just aren't identical. And yes I agree... taste wise they are exactly the same as a regular old hydroponic tomato. Picking them too early, shipping them long distances in refrigerated trucks... all makes for a tasteless tomato (the horror). You really don't taste a difference? Not that this thread/argument is about taste, but you have to admit there is a difference between eating a tomato off the vine and eating one from the grocery store that came all the way from the valley.
    On this point sir, you are over-the-top correct. When I pick something out of my backyard and make that into a pasta sauce (obviously with meat) its glorious! Anything not fresh picked regardless of its origin is less than. That shouldn't be surprising though. If I cut my ass off, froze it and sent it to my family it would look, smell, and taste different than if i showed up at their door and told them to kiss it.

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackdemenzes View Post
    Our teeth aren't designed to eat meat, we have teeth that are good at eating meat because we eat it. If the meat supply dried up, those that have an easier time chewing and digesting vegetables would thrive.
    Our teeth are designed to eat meat and plants. Thats why we have sharp front teeth, to tear flesh, and large back teeth, for grinding plants. If you look at pure carnivore teeth, they are all sharp and pointed, even the back teeth. Herbivore teeth are all wide and blunt for grinding.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrin View Post
    supposed, teeth do not designate food intake. digestive mechanisms do. That is not available in fosil or bone records.
    Yeah sure, teeth designed for eating vegetables are not designate food intake.

    Have you ever seen a lion with such teeth? No? Guess why.

  14. #234
    The thing that confuses me the most about both sides of this debate, is why people get so defensive about it. If you're so sure it's what nature "intended", then you've got natural selection on your side and you've got nothing to worry about. That goes to both sides. Why do we even argue about it? I have a vegetarian diet, I feel fine, I'm not yelling at anyone because what you eat is irrelevant to me. And if I'm wrong my genes are less likely to thrive and it all comes out in the wash anyway. (I shouldn't have stated my side actually, just to prove a point, pretend I said "I'm a meat eater, I feel fine, I don't care that you are a vegetarian because..." etc)

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Our teeth are designed to eat meat and plants. Thats why we have sharp front teeth, to tear flesh, and large back teeth, for grinding plants. If you look at pure carnivore teeth, they are all sharp and pointed, even the back teeth. Herbivore teeth are all wide and blunt for grinding.
    I wouldn't call our front teeth sharp. It would really hard to eat an apple if all of our teeth were like our grinders. We only have 4 semi pointed teeth and they aren't even big enough to say they are for meat.

    Look a lions teeth for example. Those are sharp pointed teeth.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    That is because people who eat meat are more susceptible to dieing from meat borne illnesses like e. coli and salmonella. However if you cook your food properly that isnt a problem. Another reason is probably if the same people are eating a lot of saturated fat and bad cholesterol from eating fatty meats but if you eat a balanced diet and exercise its also not a problem.
    Nope, e. coli is on almost every surface on the Earth and salmonella is on every plant and animal product anyone can obtain. Both are easily killed by washing or heating. There is no higher frequency of salmonella in meat or plant products when correctly prepared.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I wouldn't call our front teeth sharp. It would really hard to eat an apple if all of our teeth were like our grinders. We only have 4 semi pointed teeth and they aren't even big enough to say they are for meat.

    Look a lions teeth for example. Those are sharp pointed teeth.
    Lol. Have you ever seen a horse eating apple? I fed horses many times, they don't need sharp pointy fangs to consume apples and alike.

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Our teeth are designed to eat meat and plants. Thats why we have sharp front teeth, to tear flesh, and large back teeth, for grinding plants. If you look at pure carnivore teeth, they are all sharp and pointed, even the back teeth. Herbivore teeth are all wide and blunt for grinding.
    Yes but our teeth ended up that way through natural selection because of the abundance of meat. As I was saying, if the meat supply dried up, over generations our teeth would become wider and blunter because of all the grinding we were doing.

    I'm not even trying to weigh in on the debate, I'm taking issue with the use of the word "designed" (while hopefully avoiding a religious debate!). You can't use teeth shape to argue that nature has an "intention", it's purely reactive to our circumstances. When circumstances change, we will change.

  19. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    Look a lions teeth for example. Those are sharp pointed teeth.
    Lions are carnivores with no capability of COOKING, allot like my exwife. Most people in the last several dozen thousand years have learned how to heat food which makes it more tender.

  20. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by theunit187 View Post
    Lol. Have you ever seen a horse eating apple? I fed horses many times, they don't need sharp pointy fangs to consume apples and alike.
    Do you know how much bigger a horses teeth and jaws are than a humans?

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 01:47 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerrin View Post
    Lions are carnivores with no capability of COOKING, allot like my exwife. Most people in the last several dozen thousand years have learned how to heat food which makes it more tender.
    So what you are saying is because we are capable of using our inventions to over come things that other species in the wild can not that makes us optimized meat eaters? I think that just makes us able to skip the part most people would pass on if they had to choose.

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