And Elemental Shaman already use Frost Shock. Frozen Power just enhances a spell they already use. The idea that this is a "conflict" makes no sense. It suggests that you do not understand the way priority systems work. If the CC is more desirable to you than DPS, you'll use Frost Shock rather than Earth or Flame Shock. In those cases, Frozen Power improves Frost Shock, and may indeed bump it up the priority slightly as a result. This is NOT a conflict, it's a priority change.I didn't say FP wasn't useful for Elemental. I said that it works against the spec because Frozen Power shares a cooldown with Flame Shock and Earth Shock; two major components of Elemental DPS.
Plus, he was only speaking with regards to Elemental, and with Elemental's valuation of Haste in mind. For Resto, the passive Haste of Nature's Swiftness and the instant cast when needed is going to be a big advantage in healing, at least comparable to EM's better window of throughput, and Echo of the Elements will have interesting potential for both Enhancement and Resto as well.
Plus, it's quite possible that later in the expansion, we'll be hitting Haste caps with EM+BL up, meaning you either need to separate the two CDs, possibly for a DPS loss, or just take another talent so you can have better performance during Bloodlust/Heroism. We already hit Haste caps pretty easily with the current incarnation, which is only +20% spell haste; the main reason we still stack EM and BL/Hero is because it's worth it for the damage boost portion alone. That wouldn't remain true in MoP, most likely.
I'm not disagreeing with Binkenstein's conclusion, EM is probably going to retain the edge unless there are further tweaks, but it's not destroying the other two by an overwhelming margin.
Endus I was the one who posted the link. I wasn't deliberately or dishonestly misquoting him. To be perfectly clear I posted the link because Teriz, in the original post, said Elemental Mastery was weak (overall, not specific to any one spec) and that Echo of the Elements was far and away the best for Elemental. Binkenstein very clearly disproves both of those claims.
I was not, nor should anyone else, claiming that Elemental Mastery was far and away the best for Elemental. I did claim because I took Bink's post as saying so that it is far and away the best on a fight where you can use Ascendance twice, once with Elemental Mastery and the other with Bloodlust.
On the topic of EM and the rest of the tier, my choice on which talent to take depends on which talent I take in the next tier. Elemental Mastery compliments Ancestral Guidance and Conductivity. EM can be used with AG all the time and the extra damage/healing you can put out with EM up affects the healing you put out with AG up. EM will also allow you to cast more Lightning Bolts while under Healing Rain, clearly good for Elemental but nice for Restoration when you need to regen mana but still do some healing. I would be very curious if there is a haste "soft cap" where EM could make the cast time of Lightning Bolt worth it for Enhancement to hard cast while under Healing Rain. If I took Healing Tide Totem I would probably take Ancestral Swiftness as Restoration, undecided on Elemental. Reason being I see Echo of the Elements as having the same problem with Ancestral Awakening, most of the healing is overhealing. Though oddly I don't find that true with Windward Heart.
Last edited by Rahdik; 2012-05-05 at 03:25 AM.
It comes out mathematically ahead, but that doesn't make it "overwhelmingly strong" compared to the others. That's where I took issue with what Teriz was saying.
I'm not disagreeing with Binkenstein's conclusion, EM is probably going to retain the edge unless there are further tweaks, but it's not destroying the other two by an overwhelming margin.There's a difference between merely having an edge and being the clear choice. As a DPS Shaman, why would you not choose the talent that will give you a DPS boost?Originally Posted by Binkenstien
No, the way Binkenstein runs the math, a mathematical edge means there's a clear choice. When one glyph provided 50 more DPS than another in sims, it was the "clear choice". Despite that being 0.1% of your simmed DPS at the time.There's a difference between merely having an edge and being the clear choice. As a DPS Shaman, why would you not choose the talent that will give you a DPS boost?
But again, if a talent is giving you a clear DPS edge, why would you ever choose the other two talents?No, the way Binkenstein runs the math, a mathematical edge means there's a clear choice. When one glyph provided 50 more DPS than another in sims, it was the "clear choice". Despite that being 0.1% of your simmed DPS at the time.
Personal preference, situational circumstances, etc.But again, if a talent is giving you a clear DPS edge, why would you ever choose the other two talents?
And tuning isn't finished yet, either.
---------- Post added 2012-05-05 at 04:00 AM ----------
While I agree that tuning isn't finished yet, the only way they can stop this from happening is to change Elemental Mastery itself, or have it not effect Ascendance. There aren't going to be too many Shaman who are going to avoid picking up the talent that buffs their most powerful cooldown.Personal preference, situational circumstances, etc.
And tuning isn't finished yet, either.
BTW, Bink's opinion on Elemental Blast isn't very encouraging either.
Last edited by Teriz; 2012-05-05 at 04:03 AM.
Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.
I would definitely be up for it being a smart heal, though I have a feeling that could be a monster to keep balanced.
Last edited by binkenstein; 2012-05-05 at 04:31 AM.
EotE is balanced pretty close to Ancestral Swiftness, too, the reason EM pushes so much higher is because it's a cooldown, the others are passive boosts. EotE is just proccy on a low chance, and AS is a static Haste boost with an instant cast option on a shortish CD.
Last edited by Endus; 2012-05-05 at 04:44 AM.