Page 1 of 6
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Why do other company devs devalue WoW so much?

    Having played the launches or Rift and SW:ToR both games went live probably 4-5 months early and missing core game parts. Neither had cross server PvE. Neither had customizable interfaces. Rift seemed to do a few more things right such as a great macro system and also cross server PvP from the get go. But why do games ignore WoW and refuse to incorporate some of its mechanics when they make games. I mean why would you not want to borrow from the most successful MMO of all time?

    Wonder how WoW got that way? They borrowed from previous MMOs and made those things better. Most of the original dev team were old Everquest raiders so they brought a lot over from that game. Dark Age of Camelot was the first game to have 3 different specs so they borrowed from that when making talent trees. DAoC was also the first MMO to have battlegrounds so again borrowed from that idea.

    SW:ToR just blew off just about everything people want in a game today. No macro system. GTN was terrible and is still bugged. Cant server transfer. No cross server PvP. No cross server PvE. Some classes require you to be an octopus to play with the number of buttons required. Why would they purposely release a game lacking such obious features? I know a lot of that is coming with future patches but why the hell werent they with the game at launch? I mean if you made cars would you send them off to the dealers with just a frame and engine but no transmission, drive shaft, tires/wheels, or interior and then expect people to still buy it?

  2. #2
    Because the playerbase will just spout off the tired shit of "This is just a WoW clone! RAGE!!!" But, the idiots still spout that shit off anyway. And if my memory serves me from the Beta of Rift, they did have a customizable ui during that. I do know that within the first 4 months that it was put in if my memory is a little faulty. And it wasn't long before they added in the cross-server dungeon runs. Can't say anything about Star Wars as I only played about 1 hour of a free trial before I gave up as it just wasn't for me.

    I personally blame the players, always spouting off WoW Clone! and raging at any game that isn't warcraft.

  3. #3
    I've wondered similar before.

    SW:TOR launching without a dungeon finder really amazes me. I don't see how anyone can say that not having one and sitting in the fleet spamming trade for an hour is preferable to a simple tool that makes grouping easier. I do accept cross server play is something that should be delayed until server communities have been established but having a dungeon finder restricted to your server seems a perfectly reasonable feature.

    Macro support should be supported but I do feel it's important to maintain balance so macros aren't required. I suck at writing macros and hardly use any. I'd hate to be put in a situation where if I didn't use them I'd be completely screwed.

    I guess its part of the "Doing something different" mentality but honestly people should just accept when someone has a good idea there's no shame in copying it.

  4. #4
    Immortal Dezerte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    7,910
    The biggest reason is that WoW is much older and has a lot more time spent on it developing content and new features.

    Most MMO's out there seem to strive to become the next WoW-type MMO, that's where the only market is. Or so they think, just look at games like EVE for example.

    We're seeing a few new things now. TERA with it's action-based combat system & GW2 throwing away the concept of the trinity. Small steps, but at least it's something.
    To declare that a personal, inner experience gives certainty about the workings of the universe is to assign far too much value to one’s subjective sense of conviction.
    I’m not that arrogant.

    The brain, marvelous instrument though it is, isn’t infallible. It can misfire, seize or hallucinate, and it can do so in a way that’s utterly indistinguishable from reality to the person experiencing it.

  5. #5
    It's always a difficult balance. Ignore your competitors, and you are doomed to repeat the same mistakes. Copy them too much, and people will just play the first game, as your game is just the same thing at the core.

    The other thing is that if you're developing a competing game, chances are you think you can do a better job. So you do some things differently and purposefully not do what your competitor is doing. You have different ideas, different inspiration. This isn't necessarily a bad thing: this is where true innovation is born. But at the same time, it can be very easy to fall into traps and pitfalls that you may have missed if you'd only paid a bit more attention to your competitor.

    So yeah... Difficult balance. I guess it's also a matter of time: you've got to release the game at some point. WoW has had several years to build up the large list of content and features: no game will ever be able to match that at release, unless they want to develop it for 10 years. Which is a terrible, terrible idea.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alilei32 View Post
    Having played the launches or Rift and SW:ToR both games went live probably 4-5 months early and missing core game parts. Neither had cross server PvE. Neither had customizable interfaces.
    What was that edit layout button then in Rift that puts literally anything Blizzard ever put out to shame? Also x-server LFG the most hated feature in all of mmo history. You killed all your credibility with that statement.
    http://raptr.com/puremallace/about

    What has been made by QQ can be unmade by QQ!!!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    Also x-server LFG the most hated feature in all of mmo history.
    Yeah, no. You killed all your credibility with that statement.

    ot; The reason why those games did bad was because they released unfinished, nobody wants to play half assed product that will be release quality 6 months in. They copied WoW with core mechanics and left out pretty much everything else.
    Last edited by Lefuu; 2012-05-05 at 04:26 PM.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Victory Road.
    Posts
    5,223
    Quote Originally Posted by Arschmade View Post
    WoW is a really really bad game. Ulduar was the last time WoW was fun (and I played it)
    All those facts backing up your opinion, yeah!

  9. #9
    I don't think they devalue wow personally. I think they get caught up in their own ideas about what makes a good MMO, and trying to do it better than wow, and neglect covering all the elements that wow has meshed together. I do think they appreciate at least some of make wow great, but I don't think they appreciate the synchronicity of it all working together.

    SWTOR was also a classic example of non-MMO developers making an MMO imo. They made a great single player game, but they thought that a great single player game with loads of people in it was a great MMO. I felt that the Rift team had a much better grasp on making an MMO, they just needed to bake it a bit longer so they could've brought in more of wow's elements from the start.

    There's a natural disdain amongst creative design for ripping off the competition but doing it better. Cos I totally agree with what I suspect is the basic premise of your argument - wow's real strength is that they're open to ideas from anywhere and they'll happily pilfer them, iterate on them, and come back with something stronger.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Arschmade View Post
    WoW is a really really bad game. Ulduar was the last time WoW was fun (and I played it)
    Good contribution! It's clear you are not biased or a troll, and definitely fully read and understood and were responding to the OP.

    OT: I agree with one of the above posters, that it's the "doing something different" mentality. It's got to be a really fine line to walk. You have these many millions of people who play this one game, and if you're game is just like it, most of them will probably stay with the first one, particularly if they already have a good deal of time invested in it.

    Anyway, I can really see SWTOR sticking it out there for the long run. Maybe not as long as WoW, but I bet it'll last a good while. That gives them plenty of time to see what is working with their game and what needs to be changed.
    Once you go troll, you never reroll. -heard on cynicalbrit.com. Epic.

  11. #11
    In short, you're asking why doesn't everyone copypaste their MMO from WoW? This is the most stupid thing I've read today.
    Last edited by Deep-Fried Orange; 2012-05-05 at 04:35 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deep-Fried Orange View Post
    In short, you're asking why doesn't everyone copypaste their MMO from WoW? This is the most stupid thing I've read today.
    aside from your post that i had to read?
    Photo Website: http://www.jeremynative.com Please check out

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremynative View Post
    aside from your post that i had to read?
    Did someone shove a gun up your arse and threatened to pull the trigger unless you read my post?

  14. #14
    Herald of the Titans Ynna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,736
    Well, when people want to copy the success of World of Warcraft, they look at WoW to see how to do it. Then they make a list of what they think makes WoW a good game, and what doesn't. You then copy what's good (maybe with some improvements) and improve or remove what you think is bad.
    But it's hard to actually tell what features make WoW the success that it is. You see the community complaining about LFD, see a dev thinks: "Well, the players don't seem to want that." They don't think macro's actually do that much for a game, so they don't create it. Stuff like that.

    But I don't think the main problem of MMOs is that they don't copy WoW enough. Quite the opposite.
    Retired Holy Priest
    As a rule, I try to act on the internet as I would in real life. If I have offended you, feel free to point it out. Unless I meant to offend you, I will probably apologize.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pachycrocuta View Post
    And if my memory serves me from the Beta of Rift, they did have a customizable ui during that. I do know that within the first 4 months that it was put in if my memory is a little faulty.
    I started playing Rift on the head start and i had a fully customizable ui at that point. It also had an import function for all macros and key binds from one char to another.

    The thing with wow these days is that they are moving away from the MM part of the genre while most other game are emphasizing it. In wow you dont have to group up with anyone for anything in the world. Raid, dungeon or PvP is the only time you have to even interact with another player. Even then you click a button and have a bunch of strangers you dont have to talk to to do any of that. The world is dead and because of that the community of the realm suffers. Imho most Devs see this as the big negative of wow and try to move away from the route Blizzard took.
    This is the tale not of the Horde as it exists today, a loose organization of orc,tauren,forsaken,troll, and blood elf, but of the rise of the very first Horde. Its birth, like that of any infant, was marked by blood and pain, and its harsh cries for life meant death to its enemies.

  16. #16
    keep in mind that maybe 1-2 million of the wow players like MMOs. the rest like the social aspect, the "get something for no effort" facet of the game, the facebook gamers are mostly what you see in wow. if you make a great MMO, you do not hook these players. 1-2 million is considered failure (and it fucking isn't of course) but that's what rift attracts. that's what gw2 will attract.
    wow-addicts don't want a new game, they want a better wow. making a new game that doesn't feel like wow pisses them off and they go back to wow. they dont' want to go back to wow but they're addicted

    now rift didnt' feel like wow. didn't look like wow and has been extremely successful. swtor is 100% fine, successful, both will be around a long time and both feel different than wow

    that pisses addicts off. gw2 will piss them off too

    they want wow to not suck, but wow is focused on maximizing profit at the expense of fun. accountants run wow now, not gamers or artists. every decision made will be made by an accountant from now on.

    the only thing that hasn't degraded in wow is the music and i love it. probably the only reason i play anymore. the people are horrible, they're rewarded for being horrible so will certainly stay horrible, the game is as stale as 2 week old bread and nothing is going to change.

    when a new game comes out and isn't wow, good, we have wow and it's not something others want to imitate.
    Last edited by fizzbob; 2012-05-05 at 06:56 PM.

  17. #17
    Titan Nerraw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    11,383
    The major problem that "WoW-clones" face is the fact that Blizzard has had almost 8 years to improve on their game. A newly started MMORPG has no chance in hell to compete against that in the long run as long as WoW is still active. Everything else will lack in some areas when compared to WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I only saw a few minutes of it but it looked slicker than a lubed up olympic swimmer fleeing from a shark.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Lefuu;16703418]Yeah, no. You killed all your credibility with that statement.

    Dont think so, I too agree that cross server LFG system is the worst idea of all of wow (LFG server only would have been preferable.) The reason behind the hate is all the ninja's and aholes who you can end up teaming up with. Also Cross server have done nothing but alter the attitude of the player base towards even more anonymity = no one cares about you, and behaves like they were the kings of WoW. The next worse thing were flying mounts which killed most of the world. Wow these days are about little to no effort and instant gratification, which suits the "me, myself and I" generation it seems.

  19. #19
    Why?

    Because it helps feed hype.

    I remember the Rift trailer "Like CERTAIN OTHER MMO's"

    "Oh ho ho! Did you hear that guys? he's not so subtlety bashing the game I'm bashing! I so mesh with this developer!"

    ^ Pretty much that.

  20. #20
    If I remember right Blizzard borrowed 3 spec from Diablo 2 not DAoC.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •