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  1. #21
    Brewmaster Zenotetsuken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fathr View Post

    Dont think so, I too agree that cross server LFG system is the worst idea of all of wow (LFG server only would have been preferable.) The reason behind the hate is all the ninja's and aholes who you can end up teaming up with. Also Cross server have done nothing but alter the attitude of the player base towards even more anonymity = no one cares about you, and behaves like they were the kings of WoW. The next worse thing were flying mounts which killed most of the world. Wow these days are about little to no effort and instant gratification, which suits the "me, myself and I" generation it seems.
    IDK, I agree and disagree. I don't think the LFG tool had as big an impact on the decline of WoW as people claim. There have always been ninjas & assholes. I ran into just as many on a per group basis in Vanilla as I do now. Even back then there were well known ninjas that would still get groups because there were so few people around to fill the roles, and it would be the same without LFG tool. Sitting in a major city for hours trying to get a group together is just as bad or worse than being able to hit a button and go with random people that could or could not be an asshole. I'm not trying to defend the LFG, or say that it is ever ok to be an asshole simply because you can get away with it, I am just trying to point out that without LFG things would still be the same, only the getting screwed over would be amplified by the time spent getting that group together.

    The very first time I remember thinking that they were taking away the challenge in WoW because people were crying that it was too hard to be the best was back when they made all the PvP Titles/Gear available for Honor rather than requiring people to work their way up the ranks to become Grand Marshall/High Warlord. From what I can remember that was the beginning of "New WoW"

  2. #22
    I think it could be those x fanboys that leave wow saying <insert "new" MMO here>, even if only out of sheer bitterness, that the new mmo will be so much better than wow and they have all these high expectations for new MMOs to succeed where they feel wow fail for them.

    And when it doesn't meet those expectations? They rage and rant about how terrible or unpolished or how many bugs it has. And when you make complaints your nearly bound to compare it to something just like it.

    In turn I'm sure those devs of other MMOs get annoyed by the thousands of post about the same thing while they are pretty much struggling to maintain a stable player base. They devalue it even more if it causes their game to fall flat. I wouldn't say that this is the case for all but I would say most.

    I mean lets face it, how can you not compare MMOs to other ones? I'm not saying you shouldn't expect different MMOs to be better than something else but your always gonna look at the difference.

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    Because copying a game that much is just silly. People want a new game, if they wanted to play WoW they'll play WoW, not TOR or Rift. I do agree that a macro system is pretty much a neccessity for MMOs these days, and cross-realm interaction is also needed, especially when your game isn't on the scale of WoW, but people want to make their own games, not copy too much.

  4. #24
    Games that want to be like (or at least similar to) WoW generally lack development time to add ALL the features we've become accustomed to over time.

    Occasionally there are design concerns like in the case of Dungeon Finders and their impact on server communities etc. but I'd argue in 90% of the cases it comes down to development time.

    Games that don't intend to follow the WoW's design paradigms purposefully chose not to implement certain features because they are different games.

    Only because WoW is successful, doesn't mean copying it is always the best approach.

  5. #25
    Mechagnome Requiemcliff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malcor View Post
    Why?

    Because it helps feed hype.

    I remember the Rift trailer "Like CERTAIN OTHER MMO's"

    "Oh ho ho! Did you hear that guys? he's not so subtlety bashing the game I'm bashing! I so mesh with this developer!"

    ^ Pretty much that.
    Having played Rift, and actually enjoying the hell out of the game, that actually is the biggest qualm I have with the game.

    the line in their adds, "We are not in Azeroth anymore."

    Me, "Woah, watch out guys, this game has something to prove! *sarcasm*"

    I mean, I like the things they do in Rift a lot, they have some cool ideas but at the same time, I just hated the "Hey guys we are being badasses by insulting the biggest MMO on the market!" style they had on their previews.

  6. #26
    great question, though I think there's no real answer.

  7. #27
    Herald of the Titans inboundpaper's Avatar
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    They wish do deny their "Enemy" the honor of being recognized. Yeah that's all I got.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    Sadly, with those actors... the "XXX Adaptation" should really be called 50 shades of watch a different porno.
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  8. #28
    [QUOTE=Fathr;16704972]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefuu View Post
    Yeah, no. You killed all your credibility with that statement.

    Dont think so, I too agree that cross server LFG system is the worst idea of all of wow (LFG server only would have been preferable.) The reason behind the hate is all the ninja's and aholes who you can end up teaming up with. Also Cross server have done nothing but alter the attitude of the player base towards even more anonymity = no one cares about you, and behaves like they were the kings of WoW. The next worse thing were flying mounts which killed most of the world. Wow these days are about little to no effort and instant gratification, which suits the "me, myself and I" generation it seems.
    You seriously enjoyed the days of playing at 2 am trying to get the last thing you needed for a group and having to spam in trade of hours on end? Rose colored goggles for the win!

    The assholes were always there before LFG. You just see more now because you are grouping with more people (And, as you said, the anonymity helps)

  9. #29
    High Overlord
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    The way I see it some developers borrow what they think WoW did "right", and not copy others that they think are "bad" or mostly like because it is out of budget/schedule.

    Regarding LFR/D, as much as it has decreased some sense of a noble community, it really has not changed every individual player. If you look for people to run with yourself, you'll eventually find them; decent human-beings are still out there believe it or not you just need to find them! If you choose to queue and save yourself some time, the probability increases that you may run into an asshole, but its a trade off that you should be aware of; the convenience of the queue is not free although the loot might be.

  10. #30
    This is an interesting read for me. It is RARE that I see threads about Devs not ripping off of WoW, usually it's the other way around. Almost every Western MMO now feels like its trying to be WoW (failing miserably at it to). SWOTOR? WoW with cut scenes. LOTOR? .... not sure how it is not unlike WoW really aside from setting and races.

    Anyway, MMOs that try to feed of the success for WoW always take large chunks of WoW but then totally miss two things that are needed to make there MMO good/better. The first thing is making sure that the mechanic and other parts your ripping off are useful and add to the game, MMOs that still miss cross-server interaction are stuck in the past and since the games is still new and not likely live they could easily make all the improvements that Blizzard has yet to make (cross-relm mail anyone?). The second thing is to make sure YOUR NOT BUILDING WOW!!!!! Just because you take elements form another MMO does not pigeon hole you into making a similar/same game. This is likely the reason most "WoW clones" fail horribly, because after the initial hype people realize that they are play WoW with a pretty new skin with a less progressive development team.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt View Post
    I ran into just as many on a per group basis in Vanilla as I do now.
    Maybe different depending on the server you were on. I literally had over the whole vanilla time two actual ninjas in a group of course I knew a couple more but nobody would take them anywhere so they quit playing or started somewhere else who knows they weren't seen again though.
    Anyways wow took quite some time to implant all those things - especially in case of swtor I'd guess they simply had a deadline and that was about it. By the way I don't really see how using more than than 5 buttons to play is something really negative. The only rather annoying thing was the lack of server transfer possibilities.

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=Fathr;16704972]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lefuu View Post
    The next worse thing were flying mounts which killed most of the world.
    I loved it when they added the flying mounts, the BC expansion was my favorite time during wow.

    I'm sure you're right, the anonymity can breed punkish behavior. I'm not a fan of the behavior of the players in wow anymore either. Back when the game was new and everyone was excited to be playing this new awesome game it was the golden age, I don't like the term vanilla, it was the golden age of wow. the general attitude of people in game was so much cooler, friendlier. It's a mere shell of it's former self IMO. Not so much because of the changes to the game, it's the attitude of the players that has changed. I suspect that the player base has gotten younger too, I think a lot of the adult players quit playing a couple years ago, while the newer players rolling in are from a younger generation, helping perpetuate the punkish behavior. That said, I've watched some videos of some arena teams of 18 year old kids that had more composure than most adults....

    as far as why everyone compares their game to, or bashes wow, is because wow is the benchmark. After everyone is done bitching about it, it's still the best game ever made. Nothing compares to it's depth, and for as many classes as you can be it's amazingly balanced.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Arschmade View Post
    WoW is a really really bad game. Ulduar was the last time WoW was fun (and I played it)
    But if enough people like something that's bad, it must still be good. Fanboi logic

  14. #34
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    What was that edit layout button then in Rift that puts literally anything Blizzard ever put out to shame? Also x-server LFG the most hated feature in all of mmo history. You killed all your credibility with that statement.
    While you may feel it is the worst thing ever... If you take a quick look at the SWOTOR forums on MMO-C and look specifically at the improvement threads or the threads talking about the game dying... Guess what the number 2 requested feature is... OH GOD ITS LFG!!! First being free server transfers. You may think it's garbage, but there are a large number of people out there who want it in SWOTOR.


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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Moomurr View Post
    The thing with wow these days is that they are moving away from the MM part of the genre while most other game are emphasizing it. In wow you dont have to group up with anyone for anything in the world. Raid, dungeon or PvP is the only time you have to even interact with another player.
    And SWTOR is any different? You don't have to talk or group with a single person to succeed in that game while leveling.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Fathr View Post

    I loved it when they added the flying mounts, the BC expansion was my favorite time during wow.
    I loved BC as well and was thrilled when I got my flying mount. I thought it was the most useful thing ever (and it was). But in hindsight, it's hard to dispute the consequences they had on the game world. Huge chunks of the world were now entirely irrelevant.

  17. #37
    Not having a LFD system is just an example of when devs listen to a few loud mouths on the forums.

  18. #38
    Simple answer: It's easy to talk shit, it's not so easy to deliver.

  19. #39
    They do, these devs steal shit all the time. It's cool blizz also does it. Due to time constraints some features just have to wait until later and other times they don't want to implement a feature because what is the point of starting your toons over if you are just playing wow under a different title.

  20. #40
    Herald of the Titans Kickbuttmario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    We're seeing a few new things now. TERA with it's action-based combat system & GW2 throwing away the concept of the trinity. Small steps, but at least it's something.
    Biggest reason why I love Gw2 and support games like Tera and RIFT. These games are making small steps on diverting itself and being different from wow and the typical MMO. Although RIFT is still a real-time hotkey macro based game, it has a lot of differences compared to wow.
    I am KickButtMario. I kick butt because I am Mario. The coolest, longest, living, protagonist out there in the video game industry.

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