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  1. #41
    The Lightbringer Uennie's Avatar
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    The Rift trainer quote was "We're not in Azeroth anymore."

    I laughed because I knew that wasn't a smart move, especially after WoW devs wished Trion all the best (publically) for Rift.
    Last edited by Uennie; 2012-05-08 at 04:38 AM.

  2. #42
    To get anything worth having in wow you have to know people. Getting heroic boss modes down takes a guild or maybe even a pug. Even when you pugging you have to talk to someone. Heroic boss modes and gladiator are two achievements, you need to know players to get they can't be solo'd so go ahead and say wow is dead. Pugging for transmog gear take people in some cases but stop that wow world is dead crap their plenty to do.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Toroc View Post
    I think it could be those x fanboys that leave wow saying <insert "new" MMO here>, even if only out of sheer bitterness, that the new mmo will be so much better than wow and they have all these high expectations for new MMOs to succeed where they feel wow fail for them.
    X fanboys? you mean people who liked wow and got tired of it and quit playing? I love how no matter what people stance are they will always throw derogatory comments out there... just call someone a douche so you can feel cooler.

    I highly doubt any of the "fanboys" as you call them, actually think any of these other games will be bette than wow. they just want something different.

  4. #44
    I think most of you have completely missed the OP's point. He isn't asking why they aren't making WoW clones, he is asking why they don't use the same feature set.
    I am currently playing Tera and really enjoying it. I leveled SWTOR until 50 on three characters. I played Rift.

    The story from SWTOR was amazing, and it was a great concept. Problem: LvL 50, I had to sit in trade for 2 hours to find a group and no way to get off my server.
    The Rift's in Rift were also top notch, I loved how to whole zone would fight these off.
    The raiding in WoW is the best there is. I raided in SWTOR and the stuff wasn't as polished.

    Now, would I still be playing SWTOR if they had a dungeon finder and dual spec for my tank (raided as DPS and soloed as tank). resounding yes.

    My point is this, and I think the OP's is as well.

    You want to compete with WoW, do your own thing, be special, I encourage it. I LOVE the Tera combat system, it's fun, it's new, it's engaging... The quests are really really really terrible. The zones blend into each other, kill x of these, kill x of these, loot y of this. WoW has learned that that's not what players went, they try and give you something new. Vehicle combat, plant vs zombies cameo. Control the NPC and stomp 1000 ennemies.

    I want a new MMO, but I want my old comforts. I want a dual / triple glyph system for Tera (so I can swap specs easily for PvE and PvP). I want a dungeon finder. These are the Quality of Life features I expect. Even if GW2 removes the trifecta and Tera makes the combat real time, when you release a game to the market, make sure it has those comforts, otherwise, WoW will always be ahead.

    Do not give me this BS about WoW being 8 years old and having all this stuff. You realize that it would probably have been easier for their development team to write a new MMO from the ground up then integrate some of the stuff they have? Cross Server stuff probably required a new architecture on their servers, going from individual characters to characters agregated on Bnet is probably just as hard as the cross realm stuff. Heck, Battle.net was rewritten from the ground since SC, that's the MAIN reason SC2 took so long to ship.

    Give credit where credit is due, WoW is old and WoW has set the standards. I personally expect those standards to be met. (FYI, I haven't played WoW more then 2 hours a week since SWTOR came out, so this isn't a Fanboy talking). I love the MMO genre and WoW has evolved it, it took stuff from the other MMO's and integrated it. MoP has area looting, why, because other MMOs have including it. The problem is the WoW team reacts quickly and improves their game, the other MMOs aren't as responsive.

  5. #45
    I remember when Rift had that trailer like "Join our horde!". Made me laugh especially hard when the game was all but dead 3 months later.

    Really though, I think the more important part is why have so few Developers actually taken the things that are missing from WoW? So many fan forums where a developer could hit a gold mine for things to avoid.


    I want a new MMO, but I want my old comforts. I want a dual / triple glyph system for Tera (so I can swap specs easily for PvE and PvP). I want a dungeon finder. These are the Quality of Life features I expect. Even if GW2 removes the trifecta and Tera makes the combat real time, when you release a game to the market, make sure it has those comforts, otherwise, WoW will always be ahead.
    I think that, in regards to comfort, there's something to be said for being too comfortable. WoW took comfort (or extreme QoL) to such a drastic level that they literally made it a game where you do everything from the same square pixel in Orgrimmar/Stormwind.
    Last edited by Prag; 2012-05-08 at 04:43 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    I remember when Rift had that trailer like "Join our horde!". Made me laugh especially hard when the game was all but dead 3 months later.

    Really though, I think the more important part is why have so few Developers actually taken the things that are missing from WoW? So many fan forums where a developer could hit a gold mine for things to avoid.
    rift has maintained over 1 million subs for about a year

    it's not dead. highest concurrent subs in NA/EU was accomplished by SWTOR at launch. wow isn't as big as they want you to think it is. servers are dying, people are online but not actually playing, etc

    the game is what it is, a social lobby where people kill time. in rift people are usually pretty busy. it's a high quality game and gw2 will be too.

    wow is boring.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    rift has maintained over 1 million subs for about a year

    it's not dead. highest concurrent subs in NA/EU was accomplished by SWTOR at launch. wow isn't as big as they want you to think it is. servers are dying, people are online but not actually playing, etc

    the game is what it is, a social lobby where people kill time. in rift people are usually pretty busy. it's a high quality game and gw2 will be too.

    wow is boring.
    I don't disagree with you, but the OP is right on the money. Rift and SW:ToR would have only been more successful had they taken a few comforts (stealing from above) to help glue everything together.

    Rift had an amazing interactive experience. Some called it repetitive and not really "dynamic" at all when the same 3-5 events happen, but I disagree. Rift had cross-server PvP but not cross server LFG. They launched WAY too many servers instead of just letting people sit in the queue for a little bit. Their UI and talent/multiple spec system was by far my favorite ever.

    SW:ToR was 99% people talking it up. It was a single player game that could have been developed for far less than $100,000,000 and 6(?) years of development, especially when you could have literally experienced every facet of the game before your free 30 ended. Ball = dropped. And I was one of the people REALLY excited for it.

    WoW is alive and dead at the same time. You said it perfectly. Many logged in, few doing anything but waiting for dungeon/raid queues to pop.

    I logged into both Rift and SW:ToR recently when they sent me the invites for a free few days. I had to transfer my Rift character because the server I had been on when I left was a Test/Trial server (I had already transferred before I quit when my initial server went to Test/Trial). SW:ToR had 79 people online at peak EST and then peak PST time. Chat was quieter than I was really comfortable with so I just logged out.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Zdrasti View Post
    I loved BC as well and was thrilled when I got my flying mount. I thought it was the most useful thing ever (and it was). But in hindsight, it's hard to dispute the consequences they had on the game world. Huge chunks of the world were now entirely irrelevant.
    Well that is true and Blizzard did update the Vanilla world in Cataclysm, I never found myself backtracking into the lower level areas even back in the old level 60 days. I agree that Flying mounts don't help the issue of the world being vacant, but the blame for that is honestly on the designers who didn't think to put something in these areas for end game players to want to go back and do.

    With 310% flying and the the Portals in SW and Org you can easily get any where in the world, so why not put phased dailies in these older zones? People would revisit them, this would mean more world PvP because people are out and bout now (thought I loath PvP in WoW with a vengeance, I know some like it) and PvE players would have something to do during LFR/G ques.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pwnyboy View Post
    X fanboys? you mean people who liked wow and got tired of it and quit playing? I love how no matter what people stance are they will always throw derogatory comments out there... just call someone a douche so you can feel cooler.

    I highly doubt any of the "fanboys" as you call them, actually think any of these other games will be bette than wow. they just want something different.
    Woah, look who's offended and defensive. This isn't even derogatory but I do find it funny how your up in arms about it /shrug. The only one that cares that much would be be...

    wait for it.....

    you.

    I'm pretty sure anyone can like wow but that doesn't make them the x fanboy I'm referring to or a fan boy for that matter.

    If your not that guy who was crazy for wow and then the minute they implemented something that you didn't like, trashed talked the game as if you always hated it- then your not the x fanboy I'm referring to.

    Now unless there is a term for these characters then I will be referring to them as such.

  10. #50
    Herald of the Titans Bathory's Avatar
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    Because if people wanted to play WoW, they'd play WoW. If things are the same, they can just stay with WoW. Why do people think Vanilla was so good? Because it was NEW.
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  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Prag View Post
    I think that, in regards to comfort, there's something to be said for being too comfortable. WoW took comfort (or extreme QoL) to such a drastic level that they literally made it a game where you do everything from the same square pixel in Orgrimmar/Stormwind.
    to extrapolate a little bit more on this idea...

    playing wow is boring now. they decided that things that aren't easy are not fun, things that take time are not fun, things that are dangerous are not fun and as such have systematically removed them from the game. what you have left is a game with no wonder, a game with no exploration, a game with no sense of personal investment, a game with no soul. the only reason i play is to have a game that i can play with two of my close friends, i sit in orgrimmar and queue for bgs, queue for arenas, queue for raids, the only time i ever leave town is to do old world instances to make my character look good since apparently their art team has really gone down hill.

    people who talk about vanilla and TBC often get brushed off as having "rose tinted glasses", but i think what they are talking about, more than wishing to play vanilla wow as was, is about the promise that wow had for the future their gaming lives. instead of living up to that promise, they burned it down and pissed on the ashes.

  12. #52
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomhyde1986 View Post
    I've wondered similar before.

    SW:TOR launching without a dungeon finder really amazes me. I don't see how anyone can say that not having one and sitting in the fleet spamming trade for an hour is preferable to a simple tool that makes grouping easier. I do accept cross server play is something that should be delayed until server communities have been established but having a dungeon finder restricted to your server seems a perfectly reasonable feature.

    Macro support should be supported but I do feel it's important to maintain balance so macros aren't required. I suck at writing macros and hardly use any. I'd hate to be put in a situation where if I didn't use them I'd be completely screwed.

    I guess its part of the "Doing something different" mentality but honestly people should just accept when someone has a good idea there's no shame in copying it.
    For 2-3 years, everybody blamed LFD and LFR for the game going downhill and "bad". It seems like they finally stopped after TOR showed just how wonderful life is without it.
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    rift has maintained over 1 million subs for about a year

    it's not dead. highest concurrent subs in NA/EU was accomplished by SWTOR at launch. wow isn't as big as they want you to think it is. servers are dying, people are online but not actually playing, etc
    I would sure hope a brand new game would beat WoW's concurrent subs at launch, so thats not really anything amazing. I mean come on and think logically, WoW is how old? People play games on PC more than they did way back when lol. That info is nearly irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by fizzbob View Post
    the game is what it is, a social lobby where people kill time.
    You mean like.... any other MMO lol?

    Rift is depressing to play because well, there still isn't a nice size player base.

    SWTOR was a really awesome RPG but a pretty shitty MMO imo. I tend to think over hyping to hurt the game (as well as Rift) a bit.

    GW2 looks amazing and I can't wait to see how that turns out.
    Last edited by Toroc; 2012-05-08 at 05:30 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrowstorm View Post
    For 2-3 years, everybody blamed LFD and LFR for the game going downhill and "bad". It seems like they finally stopped after TOR showed just how wonderful life is without it.
    swtor had/has a lot of issues that i found much more pressing than LFD or LFR.

  15. #55
    Old God Arrowstormen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    swtor had/has a lot of issues that i found much more pressing than LFD or LFR.
    That isn't very good, is it?
    Being critical is a burden which some people loves to bear.

  16. #56
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    With all non-WoW MMO's, chance are they do want to take all of the cool stuff and implement it. But unlike WoW, these games havent had 8 years out in the market, constant development and polishing, and all the cool stuff added. Remember, WoW lacked LFR/LFG, cross realm groups, server transfers, and pretty much every cool and convenient little thing that is being demanded of the other MMOs when it was launched. And the opposing argument may be "Well they should know that these things are wanted and implement them before launch", but as an MMO communitiy, WoW players have been spoiled by what we have received in the last 8 years.

    If i had have had an LFR or LFG ability back in Vanilla, things would have been much easier for me. Ive player SW:ToR, maxed out a character, camped stupid spawns and highly unbalanced factions on Ilum for hours just to complete dailies and weeklies, and even as an advocate of giving new MMOs their fair chance, i was left underwhelmed. And it wasnt because of what they did or didnt add to SWToR...it was because of what i already had in WoW.

    Winter...The realm of eternal ice

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    to extrapolate a little bit more on this idea...

    playing wow is boring now. they decided that things that aren't easy are not fun, things that take time are not fun, things that are dangerous are not fun and as such have systematically removed them from the game. what you have left is a game with no wonder, a game with no exploration, a game with no sense of personal investment, a game with no soul. the only reason i play is to have a game that i can play with two of my close friends, i sit in orgrimmar and queue for bgs, queue for arenas, queue for raids, the only time i ever leave town is to do old world instances to make my character look good since apparently their art team has really gone down hill.

    people who talk about vanilla and TBC often get brushed off as having "rose tinted glasses", but i think what they are talking about, more than wishing to play vanilla wow as was, is about the promise that wow had for the future their gaming lives. instead of living up to that promise, they burned it down and pissed on the ashes.
    Well, to be fair, there is still an extremely talented mass of players that only/mostly play WoW as their MMORPG choice. Some PvE, many PvP. I really enjoyed reading your post because I agree with you 100%, but it's not fair to just toss the game aside as boring. There's just a meta-game in WoW - PvP ranking and PvE ranking - that provide the last little bits of excitement.

    I agree with you, though. When the only truly dangerous foes are stuck in some instance you see once a week, it's hard to really immerse yourself in the game outside of that.

    I personally love all the new designs that have come and gone. Even Rift was more exciting for the few months I played than playing another game would have been. Same with SW:ToR, although that was really only for about 3 weeks.

    Are we just looking at MMORPG's in the wrong manner? I always assume the ideal design would be long-term subscriptions, but maybe the industry is content with flash-in-the-pans. Games that get talked up, sell a bunch of discs and then require only minimal upkeep/attention as subscribers dwindle and you move on to the next title.

  18. #58
    WoW is an ok game; but for a leader on the MMO market some ppl expect more progress, more flaws to be corrected and Blizz does not deliver that. They deliver a-ok. Poor storytelling, raids that fail to impress after you have seen a few of them, medicore armor designs to chase after, subpar pvp, content updates that take forever to deliver ...

    I imagine when other developers see how much money a year Blizz cashes on WoW ... enough money to make 5-10 SWTOR games from scratch ... and they see Blizz making 2 updates with 15 bosses for the money, they are quite amazed. Blizz developers are unreasonably slow compared to other developer teams these days.

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  19. #59
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uennie View Post
    The Rift trainer quote was "We're not in Azeroth anymore."

    I laughed because I knew that wasn't a smart move, especially after WoW devs wished Trion all the best (publically) for Rift.
    I disagree. "We're not in azeroth anymore" was by far the best thing they did to sell copies of the game. It got people to talk about rift. A lot of MMO players hadn't even heard of it before that. I'll go out on a limb here and say that Rift wouldn't have sold half of its copies if it weren't for those adds.
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  20. #60
    I am Murloc! ita's Avatar
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    I think it's a good thing.

    WoW (with the dozen or more of it's clones) is already filling the niche. The market does not need more of them.

    I think WoW just has so many players compared to others because it is already well established. It's crumbling but it's so huge that it takes time. Not many people are happy with WoW or think it's a good model but there isn't anything better either and can't be anything better because the newcomers won't have so much time to polish it. They will usually attract 1-2 million who are bored of WoW, they play it, expect some miracle but after a few months find that it's just as boring and a WoW clone with more bugs and flaws and go back
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