Spell Reflection Warrior Changes

[Rzsphex]

Spell Reflect is one of those mechanics that always feels weak to the warrior and overpowered to everyone else. We ran a bunch of internal BGs and Arenas and it was pretty universal that the casters were constantly having everything reflected if there was a warrior in the area.

We're still tweaking the Mass Spell Reflect talent. We want it to feel awesome, and we think that is a good way for warriors who want to be great at reflection to be able to make that commitment. Our current thought is that Mass Spell Reflect is a new ability (meaning that you'd have both spell reflects) and doesn't require a shield. We like that seeing the warrior strap on a shield signals to the caster that reflection is a risk -- the alternative is that sometimes your spells just bounce back at you, seemingly at random. That logic works for the core Spell Reflect, but already doesn't work with Mass, because you don't see the shield for the warrior's allies. Decoupling the two spells also lets us individually tweak their durations and cooldowns.

You just proved a fact that has been floating around since WotLK; just because 95% of random battlegrounds are comprised of casters (mage, priest, lock, the list goes on) does not justify adding a 15 sec CD to one of a warriors only magic reducing/mitigation spells. You also seem to justify the, let's call it a re-nerf, based on multiple casters on a single warrior. This alone does not represent the majority of PvP encounters. As a WoW subscriber who has only played and leveled a warrior (until my recent Resto Druid) since WotLK (yes WotLK baby) I've only used spell reflect when i felt crafty enough to spam a macro that HAS to be mashed multiple times to even work, this doesn't even take into consideration the 50ms (on a good day) server lag that makes me reflect a pet bolt, or a 3k ice lance.

That being said, I can see how a "Mass Spell Reflect" will entice warriors into putting aside the anger mustered by the 15sec nerf, but I feel this isn't something that should cast aside and masked by an ability that allows a second reflect.

While this seems like a flame it isn't, I'm simply concerned that this is being taken the wrong way, warriors have always had a lot of "bitchy" issues in the forums about nerfs>buffs>nerfs and yes, it is kind of annoying, but a class that is second to none in WoW as far as diversity deserves that "special feeling" of reflecting a [Polymorph], [Cyclone], [Hex], [Fear], [Lava Burst], .......yah, lots of casters. Sitting in a Frost Nova/Pet Nova/Gul'Dan/HoJ... and getting obliterated without wasting our only 4min CD is insane.

That's my two-cents on the matter.

P.S: this topic is void of anger towards mobility, specifically a 12 sec charge and heroic leap that only works on near-flat terrain, but this in itself is still a topic that needs attention.

[Difuid]

Well, let's see:
It reflects all incoming spells that are casted on you when you pop it, if 10 warlocks shoots shadow bolts at you, then 10 shadow bolts will bounce off you back to their sender.
It also reflects all spells(for e.g: instants) that are casted by the flagged caster(s) before the "to-be-reflected" spell lands.

I have no doubts most warrior knows this and lobby to get their short CD "Forget casting spells on me" skill back. IF it reflected only one spell like said in the description then yeah the long CD would be an overkill but in it's current state I have no sympathy for warriors

[Zabko]

Well, let's see:
It reflects all incoming spells that are casted on you when you pop it, if 10 warlocks shoots shadow bolts at you, then 10 shadow bolts will bounce off you back to their sender.
It also reflects all spells(for e.g: instants) that are casted by the flagged caster(s) before the "to-be-reflected" spell lands.

I have no doubts most warrior knows this and lobby to get their short CD "Forget casting spells on me" skill back. IF it reflected only one spell like said in the description then yeah the long CD would be an overkill but in it's current state I have no sympathy for warriors

You cant be serious right ?:P So why for example DKs AMS wont absorb only 1 spell and then disappear? Or rogues cloak only makes them immune for 1 spell? Dont tell me its not related. You can get kicked back by thunderstorm or typhoon with SR up, that wont happen with cloak or AMS. Or they just use some lowdmg instant to get SR down. Just because some greedy caster gets their mighty shatter or mindblast + swd reflected that doesnt mean that SR is overpowered.

Mass SR was retarded with 2 spells being reflected, every warrior that plays high rated arenas or rated bgs will agree with that. 15 seconds was fine for normal SR, 30 seconds is overkill. Lets hope they will make different CDs for normal and mass as GC said.

[Siri]

You can get kicked back by thunderstorm or typhoon with SR up, that wont happen with cloak or AMS.

That's because it is the way the ability is designed, you can't reflect AoE spells. If Mass SR and SR goes on different cooldowns I personally don't think that the longer CD on SR is the end of the world at all since a reflect is inherently stronger than an immunity if used in a good way.

[Flaks]

That's because it is the way the ability is designed, you can't reflect AoE spells. If Mass SR and SR goes on different cooldowns I personally don't think that the longer CD on SR is the end of the world at all since a reflect is inherently stronger than an immunity if used in a good way.

It is never ever EVER better than an immunity in any PvP scenario ever. An immunity can help turn the tide of a battle 100% of the time. SR? So easily countered that one reflect in MAY BE every 5 or so matches will switch the flow of an RBG or arena match in your favor. It's VERY easily noticable which guts THAT argument that GC has and it is even more easily countered because every caster class has a super easy way to counter it. How do you counter CloS or AMS or the upcoming BoP? Oh that's right, you can't. So why are we subject to such an easily counterable mechanic that keeps being met with nerfs because players with terrible awareness don't know how to counter it?

This change is based on one of two things. Either that MSR is just so ridiculously powerful that it there's no way nerfs to it would balance it out and so it forces an SR nerf (pretty much developer incompetence in this case because MSR WOULD be balanced with a 45 second - 1minute cd even if it didn't require a shield WITHOUT necessitating an SR change) or the the developers are the aforementioned players devoid of situational awareness and so kept on eating reflected instant death coils because they're horribad (even more developer incompetence).

[Siri]

It is never ever EVER better than an immunity in any PvP scenario ever. An immunity can help turn the tide of a battle 100% of the time. SR? So easily countered that one reflect in MAY BE every 5 or so matches will switch the flow of an RBG or arena match in your favor. It's VERY easily noticable which guts THAT argument that GC has and it is even more easily countered because every caster class has a super easy way to counter it. How do you counter CloS or AMS or the upcoming BoP? Oh that's right, you can't. So why are we subject to such an easily counterable mechanic that keeps being met with nerfs because players with terrible awareness don't know how to counter it?

I'm talking about an equal quantity here. If you could either reflect one spell or immune one spell, you'd rather reflect it. If you could reflect all spells for 6 seconds or immune all spells for six seconds you'd rather reflect them. That's what I'm talking about.

Sure, SR is easy to counter, as is Dark Sim. That doesn't mean that one will always be able to pull it off. Top players get their good stuff reflected by warriors and stolen by DKs all the same.