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  1. #421
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plasticpaddy View Post
    I'm no angel but killing 77 people and showing no regret leaves little doubt that he is an oxygen thief and we'd be better of just putting a bullet in the back of his head. Asking the taxpayer to foot the bill for keeping him locked up in relative luxury? Something has gone wrong somewhere.
    I'll raise this point again. Where do we set the bar though of this action?

    Is the murder of 10 people enough to make you eligible for the Death Sentence? What about 5? 1?

    Killing people, because they killed people is not going to solve anything. I'm indifferent about the Death Sentence. I see the value it brings to know the person is dead, and that may ease the passing of the situation for some, but is this a good solution for a 21st Century world?

  2. #422
    So many clueless people posting here I just HAD to log in and correct them.

    Breivik did not get off with 'just' 21 years. 21 years is the maximum sentence someone can get at once in Norway. It's just how their system works. Thing is, that sentence can be extended for as long as a judge seems fit, meaning Breivik can get multiple consecutive 21 year convictions. After a 21 year sentence is done the case is examined again and then the judge decides wether ot not to extend the sentence. Since Breiviks' killing spree is one of the (if not THE) biggest crimes in Norway's history I'm 99,9% sure a judge will remember this in 21 years and extend the sentence.
    This is EXACTLY the same as giving someone a 50 year old sentence but releasing him sooner. It's just the other way around.
    In the USA people get ridiculously long sentences (eg: 5 life time sentences etc?) but they have shots at being released early for good conduct.

    Please don't post about how bad a country's judicial system is without doing any research.
    Last edited by Balleuuh; 2012-08-24 at 09:46 AM.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    That just proves he is insane and the verdict is wrong.
    Insane=/=Criminally Insane.

    There's actually a difference.

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    he did it in the only method that would get any attention to his message.
    That is where his actions become extreme. The Islamic / Muslim life style will comprise 30% of Europe by 2020, something he was obviously scared by. I don't defend his actions, they were vile, but his fears and concerns were justified.

    I'm not opposed to the Islamic Faith, Muslim Lifestyle but to have Europe "converted" in such a small space of time is worrying, and my personal beliefs on all religions make the situation even worse.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 10:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Balleuuh View Post
    So many clueless people posting here I just HAD to log in and correct them.

    Breivik did not get off with 'just' 21 years. 21 years is the maximum sentence someone can get at once in Norway. It's just how their system works. Thing is, that sentence can be extended for as long as a judge seems fit, meaning Breivik can get multiple consecutive 21 year convictions. After a 21 year sentence is done the case is examined again and then the judge decides wether ot not to extend the sentence.
    This is EXACTLY the same as giving someone a 50 year old sentence but releasing him sooner. It's just the other way around.
    In the USA people get ridiculously long sentences (eg: 5 life time sentences etc?) but they have shots at being released early for good conduct.

    Please don't post about how bad a country's judicial system is without doing any research.
    Indeed. I don't think people realise you can "Top Up" the sentence when needed. He could have 1 year left, and the Judges decide to add another 20 years onto his sentence to take him back to 21 years (the maximum sentence).

    It is impossible to give him more then 21 years in one go, but you can top up to a maximum of 21 years.

  5. #425
    Warchief Letmesleep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bergtau View Post
    The point of putting somebody in prison is to teach them that what they did was wrong so that they can understand that their punishment is deserved. You cannot get that from the death penalty because you kill them in the process.
    Agreed, and jailing someone is often enough of a punishment. Some may learn their lesson and live productive lives afterwards. I absolutely believe you make light of murder when you allow someone to commit it and not ask them to receive a proportional punishment. I'd rather not go into all the shades of grey with murder though such as "well he was molested multiple times by the guy he killed and blah blah blah". Motive, remorse, and the situation in which murder happened all play a part in the meting out of punishments. I don't believe it to be as black and white as murder = death sentence. This guy killed 77 people though without a second thought, and is proud of his actions.

    The government is not invalidating any suffering by allowing him to live. You cannot even compare the crime to the punishment in that way because that's not the fucking point. Are you saying that 77 lives is proportional to 1? If people feel that their suffering is invalidated, that's their own personal problem.
    This is kinda my point. Lesson learned or not, this man has committed unspeakable crimes and nothing he could ever do will pay for them. I believe there are things you can do that should amount to the forfeiting of your own life; killing 77 people is one of those things. The entire mentality of "if people feel invalidated, that's their problem" speaks of a disconnect. You have already disconnected from their pain. The human element is gone for you. Allowing him to hang out on the internet under supervision is absolutely an invalidation of his victims' pain.

    Comparing Hitler to this man in the way that you are is hugely flawed. Hitler was not solely responsible for the deaths of prisoners during WWII. You don't get to blame it all on Hitler. For death to occur in the way that it did, people needed to comply with Hitler's ideas. Everybody who complied with the Nazi party is to also to blame. As for rehabilitating him, yes, if he could truly be rehabilitated.
    Well, you obviously can't see the name Hitler without drawing the conclusion that someone is drawing a direct comparison. I felt I made it pretty clear that I was only using him as an example of people whose crimes were so heinous that death was the only morally right way to deal with them. I think you just lost credibility claiming he deserved a cell though. I feel claiming there's nothing that justifies the death penalty is naive, and sides with evil more than it does good. That's just my opinion though.

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakokun View Post
    Insane=/=Criminally Insane.

    There's actually a difference.
    Yes.. there is..

    There is also a difference between completely serious and halfway joking though

  7. #427
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    I'm confused about how he even has the possibility of pleading innocent if the description you gave of him is accurate in saying "Confessed perpetrator" If he confessed, why can he plead innocent?
    Last edited by Anakso; 2012-08-24 at 09:57 AM.

  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dezerte View Post
    Both the death penality and prison would be vengeance.

    Rehabilitation is not. Problem is our knowledge of human psychology is not nearly as good as it needs to be in order for rehabilitation to be more successful. It's my hope that this field becomes more effective in the future, but the other problem is how to deal with those who seek revenge. Perhaps therapy is also the answer for those people.
    You've stopped making sense. I didn't think this was the case at first, but now you ARE arguing for no penalties or consequences for crime. I'm sorry, that's not how the world works.
    If ABB received the death penality it would bring peace to the victims families, but it would not bring back the victims. When it comes down to it you are murdering one person to satisfy other people's need for revenge (peace).
    Killing someone =/= murder. Only children with black and white mentality see no difference between the two. Whether you want to admit it or not, knowing justice has been carried out when someone has wronged you does bring a sense of peace. Please don't act like this guy's victims don't deserve it, either.
    Last edited by Letmesleep; 2012-08-24 at 10:01 AM.

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anakso View Post
    I'm confused about how he even has the possibility of pleading innocent if the description you gave of him is accurate in saying "Confessed perpetrator" If he confessed, why can he plead innocent?
    I think he was basically arguing justifiable homicide

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    That is where his actions become extreme. The Islamic / Muslim life style will comprise 30% of Europe by 2020, something he was obviously scared by. I don't defend his actions, they were vile, but his fears and concerns were justified.

    I'm not opposed to the Islamic Faith, Muslim Lifestyle but to have Europe "converted" in such a small space of time is worrying, and my personal beliefs on all religions make the situation even worse.


    ---------- Post added 2012-08-24 at 10:45 AM ----------



    Indeed. I don't think people realise you can "Top Up" the sentence when needed. He could have 1 year left, and the Judges decide to add another 20 years onto his sentence to take him back to 21 years (the maximum sentence).

    It is impossible to give him more then 21 years in one go, but you can top up to a maximum of 21 years.
    norway and europe for that matter needs two things
    -A massive deportation of all non-europeans. Norway is an island, a small country, they can do it.
    -massively bump up it's indigenous birth rate.
    Last edited by seta-san; 2012-08-24 at 10:00 AM.

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    norway and europe for that matter needs two things
    -A massive deportation of all non-europeans. Norway is an island, a small country, they can do it.
    -massively bump up it's indigenous birth rate.
    They need to educate and integrate the ones that are actually willing to live in a western society.

    Blind deportation doesn't really help anyone.

  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    norway and europe for that matter needs two things
    -A massive deportation of all non-europeans. Norway is an island, a small country, they can do it.
    -massively bump up it's indigenous birth rate.
    "Norway is an island ?" Wtf are you serious ?

  13. #433
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    norway and europe for that matter needs two things
    -A massive deportation of all non-europeans. Norway is an island, a small country, they can do it.
    -massively bump up it's indigenous birth rate.
    Norway is no island, it is situated on the Scandinavian peninsula which is connected by landmass to continental Europe
    Forcing people to have children is absurd, what are you suggesting?
    And we (they really since you mainly argue that Norway should descend into a cesspool of racism) do not need more racism
    Last edited by Xarkan; 2012-08-24 at 10:05 AM.

  14. #434
    Bloodsail Admiral rashen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    norway and europe for that matter needs two things
    -A massive deportation of all non-europeans. Norway is an island, a small country, they can do it.
    -massively bump up it's indigenous birth rate.
    Norway is hardly an island, besides that its highly racist wanting to deport people only because of where they come from.

  15. #435
    I don't get what the issue here is. That guy is a nutcake isn't he? Didn't he have all sorts of issues with trying to explain why he did what he did? He sounds to me like someone with issues who was pissed off and decided to take it out on some people who look different. That guy would really hate to go to University of Michigan. I think there's all sorts of people there. Asians all over the place, black people, white people, muslims, jews, christians and a lot of gay people.

    I thought Europe was supposed to be the non racist group. It seems like people are becoming more racist there than they are here. Kind of a flip effect from the way this country was 50 years ago (U.S.).

    There's an area of upstate New York where the Jews who lived there (Orthodox) wanted a line put up (small string) around the electric poles in the city as it means it's designated an area where they can do things during their day of resting... like push baby buggies. Apparently that's against Jewish orthodox law on that day. So like, this nice area would probably (I'm guessing) not want prostitution, gambling, drugs and a bunch of other things but I'm not sure what kinds of things they believe are wrong. Being it was a quiet neighborhood, I get the impression they wouldn't want rock concerts there either. Sounds like a lot of small town USA's. They can go to the bigger areas or even 'red light districts' if someplace has those for the other stuff. What's the difference here?

    From my house there's a giant Jewish graveyard, probably a temple somewhere, about 10 different denomination Christian churches and at least two mosques. I don't think any of the people who are going about their daily lives wanna kill people. It sounds like the people who get all caught up in this are kids. I don't know too many older type neo nazi skinhead types (never met any honestly) but they all seem like pissed off angsty kids who are going to ruin their lives. Older people work and get along. It seems like people are pissed off and taking it out on whatever seems different.

    Don't some people have other things to think about? Maybe go for a bikeride or hang out with some friends or go to school or go to work or get a hobby.

  16. #436
    it looks like an island. in any case. Yes a mass deportation is possible. Muslims don't want to integrate and become educated. They want to dominate. It's the same story where ever they are in the world. You don't need to force people to have children. Only create the conditions that make it more likely, like reducing the welfare state. Make marriage almost mandatory for survival, take away birth control, etc.

  17. #437
    The Patient 55Egoist's Avatar
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    No need to bother with deportations, just cut their absurd welfare down and they will leave, cursing and calling westerners racist. Those that stay will be educated and integrated, and live happily everafter.

  18. #438

  19. #439
    Old God Hyve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    norway and europe for that matter needs two things
    -A massive deportation of all non-europeans. Norway is an island, a small country, they can do it.
    -massively bump up it's indigenous birth rate.
    Extraditing nearly 30% of Europeans is only going to destroy Europe. We do need to close down our borders a lot more. Open immigration is just stupid.

  20. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by seta-san View Post
    You don't need to force people to have children. Only create the conditions that make it more likely, like reducing the welfare state. Make marriage almost mandatory for survival, take away birth control, etc.
    ....
    WHAT THE F*** am i reading? You.. but.. i have no words, this is ..

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