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  1. #1

    Weapon determining abilities system.

    Hey.

    A long time ago I watched a video in which it was explained by an dev how the weapon determning abilities system worked. One of the things he said was that the first two abilities are determined by main hand weapon, last 2 by the offhand, and the middle by the combination of the two.

    What happened to this?

    As it is (at least as far as i can tell) this is only still true for the Thief class (and thats at least something because i think the Thief has the lowest arsenal of weapon selections out of any of the 8 classes), however for all other classes who use 2 one-hand weapons, the first three are determined by the mainhand and the last 2 by the offhand, with the OH not affecting the middle skill at all. Why did they change this?
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  2. #2
    Pandaren Monk personn5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migey View Post
    Hey.
    this is only still true for the Thief class (and thats at least something because i think the Thief has the lowest arsenal of weapon selections out of any of the 8 classes),
    Unless you count the kits, don't engineers have the least amount of weapons?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Migey View Post
    Hey.

    A long time ago I watched a video in which it was explained by an dev how the weapon determning abilities system worked. One of the things he said was that the first two abilities are determined by main hand weapon, last 2 by the offhand, and the middle by the combination of the two.

    What happened to this?

    As it is (at least as far as i can tell) this is only still true for the Thief class (and thats at least something because i think the Thief has the lowest arsenal of weapon selections out of any of the 8 classes), however for all other classes who use 2 one-hand weapons, the first three are determined by the mainhand and the last 2 by the offhand, with the OH not affecting the middle skill at all. Why did they change this?
    AFAIK this wasn't ever the case.
    For all classes it's
    Main hand 3
    Off hand 2.
    Or two-hander 5.
    -Styopa

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Migey View Post
    Hey.

    A long time ago I watched a video in which it was explained by an dev how the weapon determning abilities system worked. One of the things he said was that the first two abilities are determined by main hand weapon, last 2 by the offhand, and the middle by the combination of the two.

    What happened to this?

    As it is (at least as far as i can tell) this is only still true for the Thief class (and thats at least something because i think the Thief has the lowest arsenal of weapon selections out of any of the 8 classes), however for all other classes who use 2 one-hand weapons, the first three are determined by the mainhand and the last 2 by the offhand, with the OH not affecting the middle skill at all. Why did they change this?
    I remember the video you are talking about. I believe it's even somewhere in the video thread on this forum. However, as far as I remember, he was specifically talking about the thief; using that profession as an example.

  5. #5
    I know they arn't the same - but the Elementalist essentially has a ton of 'weapons' because each weapon set gives 20 abilities instead of 5 due to the attunements.

    Engineers have a whole ton of kits and 'weapons' from their utility bar, which is why i said that the Thief had less.

    And @Bluedragonwolf

    Fair enough Still a shame though - was an interesting system and i feel it woulda been cool to use it for other classes too.
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  6. #6
    It would probably get too complicated with all the possible weapons. Although a combined weapon + shield skill for the warrior could be interesting.

  7. #7
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Migey View Post
    Hey.

    A long time ago I watched a video in which it was explained by an dev how the weapon determning abilities system worked. One of the things he said was that the first two abilities are determined by main hand weapon, last 2 by the offhand, and the middle by the combination of the two.

    What happened to this?

    As it is (at least as far as i can tell) this is only still true for the Thief class (and thats at least something because i think the Thief has the lowest arsenal of weapon selections out of any of the 8 classes), however for all other classes who use 2 one-hand weapons, the first three are determined by the mainhand and the last 2 by the offhand, with the OH not affecting the middle skill at all. Why did they change this?
    They never changed it. It's always been only the Thief using the fancy dual wield skills.

    TBH, I think it would be cool if every class had dual-wield skills, but what can ya do except tell ANet how much you want it?
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  8. #8
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by u9k13tjc View Post
    As for currently equiped abiliites, the Thief has the same as the Guardian, warrior, ranger......
    They have less weapon sets, but they have more variety in how those combo together.
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon

    Take a look at weapon combinations
    Thief has 9.
    Guardian has 14.
    Warrior has 21.
    Ranger has 13.

    Don't care how many total skills I have, the problem is that Thieves only have 6 weapon combinations. The only variety is in what you steal from an enemy, but that's a completely random item, and is not something you control.

    If we had off-hand Sword, our total weapon combinations would go up to 12, thus matching Mesmer and Necromancers, which are scholar professions. Seems weird that an adventuring rogue would master less weapons than a scholar.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon

    Take a look at weapon combinations
    Thief has 9.
    Guardian has 14.
    Warrior has 21.
    Ranger has 13.

    Don't care how many total skills I have, the problem is that Thieves only have 6 weapon combinations. The only variety is in what you steal from an enemy, but that's a completely random item, and is not something you control.
    But you thieves get that fancy shmancy middle skill.

  10. #10
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    But you thieves get that fancy shmancy middle skill.
    Big deal. To compare:

    When a Warrior does Sword/Axe and Axe/Sword, the two weapon set-ups are different.
    When a Thief does Pistol/Dagger and Dagger/Pistol, the two weapon set-ups are different.

    I like the dual wield skills, but they don't actually add that much more variety. It still grinds my gears that Mesmer can dual-wield Swords and I can't.

    And more to the point: I can steal an axe from a bandit if the die lands on the right number. When I use the axe, I do a Warrior-style whirlwind. I can also steal a Rifle, and do what is essentially the Engineer knockback skill, that also causes me to go flying back. I can also steal a Mace, and simply Stun my enemy similar to the Warrior's Burst skill.
    This leads me to think that nothing is stopping a Thief from mastering the use of Axes, Maces, or Rifles. Obviously we're not likely to use them in the same way another profession does - we're likely to use them with deadly precision and grace.

    I will agree that Steal offers variety, but the core functionality of Steal is also detracting from that: It steals a random item from a pre-designed loot table.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-05-07 at 06:06 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Big deal. To compare:

    When a Warrior does Sword/Axe and Axe/Sword, the two weapon set-ups are different.
    When a Thief does Pistol/Dagger and Dagger/Pistol, the two weapon set-ups are different.

    I like the dual wield skills, but they don't actually add that much more variety. It still grinds my gears that Mesmer can dual-wield Swords and I can't.
    I was joking. I personally would be quite annoyed at the lack of weapon skill variety if I had any interest in playing a thief.

  12. #12
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    I was joking. I personally would be quite annoyed at the lack of weapon skill variety if I had any interest in playing a thief.
    I know you were joking, but I wanted to respond and extrapolate for anybody who seriously believes what you were jokingly claiming. :P
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  13. #13
    At the moment, I feel Thieves would be fine with sword avaliable as offhand, and potentially with axe as a one handed weapon too. Or maybe jsut Axe in mainhand only?

    Either way, they need something more...
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  14. #14
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    I honestly 100% believe that Thief should have as many weapon combos as Warrior, if not more, but maybe I'm biased. *innocent look*

    I guess if we could dual-wield all 1-handers, except for Scepter, we'd have 25 different dual-wield combinations. I dunno, why can't a Thief be a jack-of-all-trades like that?!
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-05-07 at 06:15 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I honestly 100% believe that Thief should have as many weapon combos as Warrior, except slightly less due to not using 2handers or Shield, but maybe I'm biased. *innocent look*
    Heh, and I want to have fatalities in the game ala AoC. Grrr at PEGI 12 or whatever their rating is.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I honestly 100% believe that Thief should have as many weapon combos as Warrior, except slightly less due to not using 2handers or Shield, but maybe I'm biased. *innocent look*

    Remember: that number "9" includes our 2 underwater weapons.
    Very much biased. What is a warrior if not a master of arms? :P

  17. #17
    Not as many as the Warrior I think, as part of their appeal and theme is that they have mastered so many weapons - they have 4 2-handers, 3 one-handers in main hand, and another 5 options for the offhand.

    I think giving the Thief that many would be a bit overkill, especially with the dual ability Thieves get... just one or two more weapons would be more then enough.
    "English doesn't so much borrow words from other languages as follows them into a dark alley, hits them over the head and goes through their pockets for loose vocabulary."

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    I don't quite understand why they decided to not allow 1handed sword in the off hand.

    It would also be awesome to be a thief with a 2handed sword Probably won't happen.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  19. #19
    At the moment the Kits for the Engineer are simply not weapons. Not compareable in, well... anyway. They dont scale like weapons, dont have the stats like weapons, dont deal the damage of weapons, arent acquiered or earned like weapons. So at the moment i refuse to acknowledge Kits as Weapons.

    I mean for god sake, how much of a weapon is 1)Throw mine, 2)Throw mine, 3)Throw mine, 4)Throw mine and 5)Throw mine? Engineer has 3 weapon combinations (rifle, pistol/pistol and pistol/shield) that cannot be swapped mid combat. Instead there are Utility skills (that take up a utility slot, and leave overall a total of less utility skills available) that function as Enviromental Weapons. Not real, actual, weapons. Not right now.

  20. #20
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    Very much biased. What is a warrior if not a master of arms? :P
    Oh, pshaw. A master of war. Hence Warrior. :P

    TBH, I'd be perfectly happy with Warriors getting Pistols. I found that odd and unusual.

    Surely that would be a fair trade for getting OH Sword, MH/OH Axe, and MH/OH Mace!

    Warrior would have 4 MHs and 6 OHs, to come up with 24 different 1-hander combos, then add in the 4 2handers they have.
    Thieves would have 5 MHs and 5 OHs, to come up with 25 different 1-hander combos, then add in the 1 2hander they have (Shortbow).

    Much love for the martial classes!

    Okay, I'm only half serious, but you have to admit that'd be fun to see.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-05-07 at 06:19 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

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