D3 and it's "enrage timer". Seems extremely poor design to me.

[Grassfarmer]

Kill the last boss on Inferno during his enrage!

Challenge accepted!

[Baar]

Good to know you can't read all my posts in the tread. I was level 8.

They shouldn't expect to stop and level up for before bosses in Normal mode.

2 levels is not going to make a 8-13 minute difference.

You clearly have never played diablo before either. Before you HAD to level up to be able to move on. (if you weren't getting rushed or had gear waiting for you)

[Ferocity]

2 levels is not going to make a 8-13 minute difference.

Hands would make it to him, he must just grow them.

[Lathais]

Good to know you can't read all my posts in the tread. I was level 8.

They shouldn't expect to stop and level up for before bosses in Normal mode.

So you should be able to clear normal as Level 1?

It's an RPG, leveling is part of the game. Enrage timers are level/gear checks to make sure you have what you are supposed to to move forward. To the guy that pointed out this is an RPG, he hit the nail on the head. It's an RPG, it's about levels and gear, you need them to move on, not cheap tricks. I know people keep saying this is not a valid argument but, it's their game play it their way or don't play.

[Eggowaffles]

Good to know you can't read all my posts in the tread. I was level 8.

They shouldn't expect to stop and level up for before bosses in Normal mode.

Have you never played any real video game? Where if you are having trouble with something you go level up before doing it?


As for enrage timers, if you can't balance good DPS with good survivability then you don't deserve the kill, it's as simple as that. If you are hitting the enrage times, then you are doing something wrong and need to fix it.

[Tharkkun]

There is no place for either in Diablo games. One cause it kills off a class and the other cause it has no real value other than to push you into the $AH but I'm sure thats what blizzard really wants anyway. Enrage timers does that in a fine little package and yet still offers the game no better game play or "fun" factor. It's a poorly added mechanic cause they don't want yo to go beyond there linear path.

I 'd like to think they will end up not putting in an enrage timer because of how player "B" killed their boss in a way they did not want to see. Heaven forbid some player do something outside of there control that also doesn't screw up the game to accomplish it.

It's fairly clear that Blizzard will be removing any game mechanic that completely cheeses a boss in Inferno. If you can suddenly kite in a figure eight because a boss stops to emote they will fix it. They want it to be hard. They want us to cry. If you can't beat it, then get better. We're going to have 4 levels of difficulty available to us. Only the hardest difficulty will have some gimmicks on the boss fights. I would bet most people don't make it past Hell.

[fiffer86]

Here's the link for quick access. >> Here <<


So there's going to be enrage timers on bosses. Not in the sense of "grrrr I'm angry I'm gonna 1-shot you now", but nonetheless they're there. From what I gather they're only in Inferno mode.

Does anyone else feel this is just a cheap way to negate lazy/ineffective programming? His reasoning was "we need to try to fight cheesy tactics that allow people to just flop through the game". Why not just....fight cheesy tactics to begin with? If they negate the tactics they're wanting to weed out, the only people who suffer are the people employing the tactics. By putting in enrage timers as a barrier, they're affecting more than just the people "cheesing it". To me it looks like they're just trying to Athene-proof D3 in the most effortless way possible.

I see this as especially a problem in hardcore mode. You are literally forced to play defensively.

Lastly, Bashiok seems to just reek of arrogance and dbaggery anymore. I can hardly stand to even read anything he says.

I disagree simply because you are blinding yourself to everything in inferno mode and just focusing on the enrage.

What I mean by this, is that you are coming to the false conclusion that Blizzard has not already designed Inferno to be "FUCK YOU INFERNO! FUCK YOU!" difficult with a slew of new mechanics that go beyond just ramping up mob health/dmg. The entire purpose of Inferno mode is to make the players dig as deep as they can into their ability to make it threw it, and chances are only a very small percentage of players will complete it (especially before BIS items are on the AH).

In comparison, imagine if races weren't based on time, and simply said "hey if you cross the line you win along with everybody else!" That is essentially what Normal-Hell is. But with the added timers, the "race" turns into an entirely new game of maximizing your build so that you can beat your previous "7:31sec 5% attempt". Much the same way that professional race crews try to squeeze out every last ounce of performance out of the vehicle and driver. If it wasn't for the competition and trying to beat that "1min 32sec" lap time, the emphasis on strategy and performance would be out the window.

This doesn't just apply to racing though, many professional sports and e-sports are governed by a timer. Could you imagine how dull many fighting game moments would have become if you removed the timer and removed those "clutch" moments where the underdog goes in for the win with 4 sec on the clock? Or buzzer beater shots?

TL;DR I just don't see a logical reason to remove the enrage in what is supposed to be the highly difficult/competitive mode.

[BoomChickn]

(Somewhat joking here)

I see the difficulties in this way...

Normal: Easy
Nightmare:Medium
Hell:Hard
Inferno: Fuck you.

Really, It is there to piss you off even more. The devs wanted it hard, and this is an easy way to make it harder.

Now honestly, kiting can be a bit of a problem. It pretty much negates all of the hard hitting abilities with clever movement, making the game seem more of a platformer than anything. The enrage timer forces you to take risks in order to push out extra damage to beat it. In other words, it gets harder in a way that isn't simply boosting numbers.

[Lolsteak]

Maybe your WD did, but mine certainly had no trouble with him. Though admittedly, perhaps it was an earlier build that I did not see.

For me, I just ran in and played defensively until he summoned skeletons, then soul harvested ALL of them and went to town, doing tons of damage. Easy.

I let my zombie dogs tank him while throwing loads of spiders until he summoned adds, soul harvested them and spammed firebats.. seemed pretty effective lol

[Furye]

After reading a good part of the thread, I can't help but to feel a bit disappointed by people saying ''Yo it's my game , I pay for it, do what I want or you're not getting a penny''. Not to be a jerk, but Blizz makes the game they want and its development is slightly different than WoW's, so your opinion on certain mechanics will not alter the way they want to make the game enjoyable.

Also, what's the problem with enrage timer? It's only on inferno mode and, as far as I know, it's not lazy. You think it is but it's a good solution. Complex =/= better in most cases (saying that since I studied marketing but it applies to pretty much everything). Also, I can't really see how it's a bad fix for endless kiting. You kite the boss, the boss gets progressively harder. Simple as that.

But please, to every WoW player out there that never played any Diablo games and intend to play it, let the veteran Diablo players be vocal about bad design and such. You'll do the game a favor.

In the end, bad design or not, simple mechanics or not, you should accept the game they offer to you. Those guys are experienced game developers that need to deal with people's opinions on literally everything in their game. Just trust them.

[VXFadhel]

Yeah, apparently we should accept anything being thrown at us, and that we "didnt play diablo" before? Anyway, this discussion is getting pointless now. Because people keep mentioning "well if its broken they will fix it" and so. Sorry that we have different views than you, but its up to you if you believe whatever PR crab given to you or not. People who got no idea what "challenge" means trying to teach us about "challenges". If all you can think of "yeah they said it will do this and thats what it will do" then good for you, no reason for us to step in your "happy" bubble.

There are people who have "valid" points, and I dont discard those, I want to thank you for the good discussion. As for the rest, enjoy your game and whatever being thrown at you. That includes whoever thrown the "BLUE" said so, and those who threw "Its their game". Also to the last poster, yeah I am sure you know how "Diablo 2" worked *sarcasm*. Blizzard knows how to keep people playing apparently, that I admit. For you "pro" players, we will be seein you in inferno (thats if you made it there).

Not sure why good discussions ends up like this, but I will repeat what a wise-man once said (From another forum no worries), "If we left these forums, all that will be left is idiocy.". But no worries keep praising the "almighty" blizz, they do no evil and always do whats best in your interest (not theirs) *Not talking about those with valid points but about the rest*. In closure, its an "ACTION RPG", go play "Bastion" if you dont know what that is.

*Sorry if I insulted anyone's intelligent or any way of insults."

[PetersenIII]

Wow. 20 pages? I really can't be bothered to read it all, let me just throw in my two brass.

I don't mind enrages. It really is the most elegant solution to the problem. I look forward to seeing videos of players waiting for bosses to "enrage" before opening up on them. =)

[Lolsteak]

uhm if you take away farming for a reason, why else would you kill a boss in inferno? you already finished the game 3 times up until that point :>

A challenge, there's no fun in steamrolling everything.

[Kelesti]

I don't mind enrages. It really is the most elegant solution to the problem. I look forward to seeing videos of players waiting for bosses to "enrage" before opening up on them. =)

Some of these should be good.

[EGTactics]

I personally welcome an enrage timer.
More difficulty couldn't hurt IMO.

Gives this game more replay ability.