Are all the skills implemented

[Glytch]

boon removing death traps of despair

bwah hahahahahaha

[terrahero]

See this is why i asked if you were slow, we've been telling you this the entire thread it feels... look at all the weapon kits, and tell me how many conditions each one brings... oh yeah that's right just about all their skills have a condition tacked to it, and god forbid you trait your mines into being boon removing death traps of despair... you aren't looking at the weapon kits right, you look at them and think "Oh that's my second weapon set" when in reality you should look at them and see "Oh i get all of those utility skills from 1 skill slot and they all have fairly short CD's!"

You are assuming that Kits are better then Weapons. They are not. So what, grenade and bomb kit have 4 conditions. Plenty of weapons offer a whole bunch of conditions, or boons. 4 is not uncommon at all. So no, Kits are not magical super-utility packs.

And your Mine thing is just, i mean... really? Do you even realise that in order to get all that out of your mines you need to put 30pts into the Explosives-line and dedicate all three of your Major Traits to the Mine Kit? It damn well better be good after all that. Is that really exceptional?

Rangers have a build where their 2h sword becomes so ungodly they can down people in a matter of seconds with just the 1 button... So, whats your point?

[Durzlla]

You are assuming that Kits are better then Weapons. They are not. So what, grenade and bomb kit have 4 conditions. Plenty of weapons offer a whole bunch of conditions, or boons. 4 is not uncommon at all. So no, Kits are not magical super-utility packs.

And your Mine thing is just, i mean... really? Do you even realise that in order to get all that out of your mines you need to put 30pts into the Explosives-line and dedicate all three of your Major Traits to the Mine Kit? It damn well better be good after all that. Is that really exceptional?

Rangers have a build where their 2h sword becomes so ungodly they can down people in a matter of seconds with just the 1 button... So, whats your point?

i was thinking more of spending 10 points in explosives and taking the boon removal one because the mines do quite a bit of damage as it is now...

[terrahero]

i was thinking more of spending 10 points in explosives and taking the boon removal one because the mines do quite a bit of damage as it is now...

They do not deal a lot of damage. They are also visible unless traited.

Not a bad trait i agree, but id prefer it more for WvW where you can simply toss it in the zerg (from a wall or something) so its guarenteed to anoy plenty of people. Its not bad, but you are giving it way to much credit...

[Glytch]

They do not deal a lot of damage. They are also visible unless traited.

Not a bad trait i agree, but id prefer it more for WvW where you can simply toss it in the zerg (from a wall or something) so its guarenteed to anoy plenty of people. Its not bad, but you are giving it way to much credit...

even visible mines are a deterent

[DrakeWurrum]

Two Utility slots, and everyone else has three.

Nope. You have three utility slots, and one of them has 5 buttons in it.

[terrahero]

even visible mines are a deterent

Yah i get what you mean. After the first couple of times of encountering mines in pvp i kinda went "meh". The alternative is letting them keep the point, no way! And i found mines didnt impress. They simply dont pack a punch and untraited they are just pure damage dealers, they really lack any condition sadly. Feels like they are pretty hooked on the traits to be turned into something powerfull.
Then they gain invisibility, knockback, the EMpulse and from the minor traits also Vulnerability. Now that is something that might scare some people after they parsed the numbers. Definatly going for a Mine build in WvW atleast once for giggles.

Imagine throwing knockbacking Mines on the Gate while its being zerged? ^.^

Ow and it seems the EMP trait is in Inventions. Couldve sworn it was Explosives...

Nope. You have three utility slots, and one of them has 5 buttons in it.

Yah you are perfectly right. To bad i dont have another weaponset to swap to. Kinda missing out on 5 buttons there...

[Glytch]

Yah i get what you mean. After the first couple of times of encountering mines in pvp i kinda went "meh". The alternative is letting them keep the point, no way! And i found mines didnt impress. They simply dont pack a punch and untraited they are just pure damage dealers, they really lack any condition sadly. Feels like they are pretty hooked on the traits to be turned into something powerfull.
Then they gain invisibility, knockback, the EMpulse and from the minor traits also Vulnerability. Now that is something that might scare some people after they parsed the numbers. Definatly going for a Mine build in WvW atleast once for giggles.

Imagine throwing knockbacking Mines on the Gate while its being zerged? ^.^

Ow and it seems the EMP trait is in Inventions. Couldve sworn it was Explosives...



Yah you are perfectly right. To bad i dont have another weaponset to swap to. Kinda missing out on 5 buttons there...

you seem to cite damage when we know they havent done a numbers pass, even you said that you were aware of this fact

why bring up damage then? its too soon to base any argument on the lack or otherwise damage something brings when it comes to engineers

at this point we're really limited to high and mid level (not character levels) talk we dotn have the details for engineers to really talk about low level nitty gritty stuff

also: designing a game so that the only way anything is useful is by fully specializing into it is 1) bad design and 2) not how the rest of this game is being designed. everything is useful even without any trait support in it

[terrahero]

you seem to cite damage when we know they havent done a numbers pass, even you said that you were aware of this fact

why bring up damage then? its too soon to base any argument on the lack or otherwise damage something brings when it comes to engineers

at this point we're really limited to high and mid level (not character levels) talk we dotn have the details for engineers to really talk about low level nitty gritty stuff

I know there hasnt been a numbers pass all to well. Im going with that what we know so far, there is no guarentee Mines will actually get buffed. Only that Arenanet is going to be going over the numbers.
Since Durz brought up damage, so did i. He went with the idea that mines will be great damage after the number pass, calling them "death traps of despair". How is that caim anymore legit then mine? We dont know if theyll be amazing.
Just like your speculation that mines will be a visible deterent, they wont be if they dont do any noticeable damage. So i guess you are also assuming they will be potent enough to work up a sweat over if you are surrounded by them.

They might still suck. Since i cannot predict the future that well, since my glass ball is in the shop and my cat ate my deck of tarrot cards, im just assuming on the situation as we know it now. Because that is the information we have now, if the situation changes i am more then willing to accept a different view point.

edit, since you did... no im not stalking you.

also: designing a game so that the only way anything is useful is by fully specializing into it is 1) bad design and 2) not how the rest of this game is being designed. everything is useful even without any trait support in it

I completely agree.

[Glytch]

I know there hasnt been a numbers pass all to well. Im going with that what we know so far, there is no guarentee Mines will actually get buffed. Only that Arenanet is going to be going over the numbers.
Since Durz brought up damage, so did i. He went with the idea that mines will be great damage after the number pass, calling them "death traps of despair". How is that caim anymore legit then mine? We dont know if theyll be amazing.
Just like your speculation that mines will be a visible deterent, they wont be if they dont do any noticeable damage. So i guess you are also assuming they will be potent enough to work up a sweat over if you are surrounded by them.

They might still suck. Since i cannot predict the future that well, since my glass ball is in the shop and my cat ate my deck of tarrot cards, im just assuming on the situation as we know it now. Because that is the information we have now, if the situation changes i am more then willing to accept a different view point.

well when i say "deterent" i mean players will try to purposely avoid them. not that they wont be so powerful they wont bother. you can use mines to block off a passage so that if anyone passes through them they are punished for it, kind of like ziggs in league of legends

when they are visible you can force players to do what you want them to do

even if they do piss poor damage most players will go out of their way to not hit them unless they realize that by avoiding them they are putting themselves into a trap, which the vast majority of players wont realize

[terrahero]

well when i say "deterent" i mean players will try to purposely avoid them. not that they wont be so powerful they wont bother. you can use mines to block off a passage so that if anyone passes through them they are punished for it, kind of like ziggs in league of legends

Fair enough. But i still say they need to deal noticeable damage or you will simply have people stomp through like they just dont care. I actually wonder if Mines can be destroyed, other then with your lower extremities.. But with like an AoE of sorts.

[Glytch]

Fair enough. But i still say they need to deal noticeable damage or you will simply have people stomp through like they just dont care. I actually wonder if Mines can be destroyed, other then with your lower extremities.. But with like an AoE of sorts.

see the edit

[DrakeWurrum]

Yah you are perfectly right. To bad i dont have another weaponset to swap to. Kinda missing out on 5 buttons there...

It is a damn shame. *shrugs*

I still think the design of the kits should be that weapon kits replace the Engineer's second weapon set at level 7, while the device kits are still slotted as utility skills. Might make things more interesting, and would still make Engineer unique. (and I'd want to see a Sniper Kit)

(But I still think Engi should be able to wield Maces too - Think of them as "stun batons")

[terrahero]

It is a damn shame. *shrugs*

I still think the design of the kits should be that weapon kits replace the Engineer's second weapon set at level 7, while the device kits are still slotted as utility skills. Might make things more interesting, and would still make Engineer unique. (and I'd want to see a Sniper Kit)

(But I still think Engi should be able to wield Maces too - Think of them as "stun batons")

I wholeheartedly agree with that. Id much prefer the idea of, instead of a 2nd weaponset, you simply pick a Weaponkit to switch back and forth to.

[Durzlla]

I wholeheartedly agree with that. Id much prefer the idea of, instead of a 2nd weaponset, you simply pick a Weaponkit to switch back and forth to.

I'd approve of this too, would allow my engineer to bring yet ANOTHER ELIXIR!! >=D!!