How would you fix rupture?

[wow]

You want to fix rupture? Up the damage by like 150 % (to bring it on par with feral dots) and we can talk.

You think buffing a dot that ticks for 2k by 150% will make it tick for 10-12k?

[shadowboy]

10-12k per tick is much too much for rupture. There would have to be an insane number of class mechanics changes to balance around that change.

[DerSenf]

How would you fix rupture?

Make the ticks scale with Haste.

Combat loves Haste, you would surely gain two or even three extra ticks, makig Rupture stronger than Eviscerate and actually worth it.

Subtlety loves Haste too and uses Rupture anyway. It would be a small buff in damage for one of the strongest single target specs in game, so they might tweak the numbers from another ability (preferably Hemorrage).

Assassination prefers Mastery currently, but more Rupture ticks and thus, more Venomous Wounds procs might push Haste equal or even higher than Mastery. This would also improve the poor scaling Assassination currently has (compared to the other two specs), and if Haste becomes the best secondary stat, you would have less trouble having Assassination as a secondary or even main spec, because you wouldn't need to reforge your gear that much.

These examples are obvioulsy for the current mechanics we have on live.

[patcherke]

Honestly I don't see it being Improved in MoP, Terrible damage still / Lack luster. Assassination's Rupture is absolutely of course beneficial due to Venomous wounds however the other Combat and Subtly isn't exactly amazing. Lets begin

Combat Rupture - >

Exposed Wounds
If rupture is applied upon the target, Your sinister strike damage and eviscerate effectiveness is increased by 25%. Effect last until rupture wears off

Subtly Rupture - >

Bloody Wounds
If rupture is applied upon the target, Your backstab and Hemorrhage damage effectiveness is increased by 15%. Effect last until rupture wears off

And yes I'm not original with the names I know I know

Your turn.

I think 25% is a bit too much of a buff. I’d make it so that
1. that buff is 10% (I think this 10 % can be used on all specs, and other abilities balanced around it)
2. Rupture itself ticks for more. i.e not just used for the buff. Make rupture worth using, even without the extra buff it gives.
3. Rupture maintains an expose armor debuff if that was applied. (and make it so that the duration of expose armor is longer than the rupture one) No idea if this will not be OP in PvP situations though.
4. the extra energy is retained over all specs. To compensate, I’d make Adrenaline rush +50% energy, instead of +100%. It would solve the energy capping for AR, and we maintain a good energy source, without it being too bursty.


There is actually no need to give it those 2 names, except if you want it in a glyph or so.
I’d just adjust the tooltip to show what will change.

[Sendai]

Why should all three specs deal damage in the same way? I don't like the idea of rupture being mandatory for all three specs, to be honest.

[DerSenf]

Why should all three specs deal damage in the same way? I don't like the idea of rupture being mandatory for all three specs, to be honest.

I agree, but it is currently in a very bad spot for Combat. It should either be a straight increase or not, but this "If X and Y and Z and X² conditions are met" stuff is just stupid.
I'd consider my solution far from perfect, but a very simple beginning. If Combat Rupture would be buffed just a little to make it always a slight increase, you would still have the option of not bothering with it and simplify your playstyle for a very small DPS-loss. And Min-Maxers wouldn't really bother with it, they usually do anything to squeeze out the highest possible numbers. Applying Rupture as Combat doesn't seem too far of.

[Pilkie]

I like the way they're going with it being the whole low damage skill that provides a different way to deal damage or provide utility dependant on your spec. Venomous Wounds is one of my favourite things about assassination, i just think that the way it's currently implemented for subtelty is very boring and frustrating especially with having to manually refresh slice and dice.

I dont think combat should use it, having a core rotational skill that's the same for all 3 specs makes them feel a bit to similar for me but i'd love the subtelty one to be changed more to something along the lines of "Gives your rupture ticks a chance to fade you out of combat allowing the use of a skill that requires stealth". Tbh just anything that's more interesting than +20% damage that you need to keep up constantly

[Mechanima]

All it needs is a flat damage increase to make it worth using over evisc. Nothing more. Even if this rupture damage increase was only for combat through a new passive since it's the only spec that doesn't benefit from it through talents.

It needs to be a decent amount ahead over an eviscerate. At least enough to convince people to bake it into their combat rotation.

[Fae]

How would you fix rupture?

I wouldn't. When it's time to balance numbers, I'd nerf it to the ground so it's absolutely clear that Combat should not use it and be done with it. We'd have less spam here on the forum as well.

Combat got RvS as "track this debuff" for Mists, I don't see a reason why should we need yet another one to do our damage. Combat is less bursty than Subtlety or even Assassination so I welcome the idea of it being more resilient to target switching instead.

[Mechanima]

I wouldn't. When it's time to balance numbers, I'd nerf it to the ground so it's absolutely clear that Combat should not use it and be done with it. We'd have less spam here on the forum as well.

Combat got RvS as "track this debuff" for Mists, I don't see a reason why should we need yet another one to do our damage. Combat is less bursty than Subtlety or even Assassination so I welcome the idea of it being more resilient to target switching instead.

Legit. +100

[Timujingeo]

Whatever Rupture ends up as in MoP is entirely dependent on how viable it's use for PVP not PVE as for some retarded reason the devs. constantly judge rogue abilities according to that critea; time after time we get decent PVE damage only to have it nerfed because of PVP.

It's about time a very clear line was drawn in the sand between PVP & PVE abilities.

[retronym]

can tell most people here don't pvp, rupture/sang vein change = death of subtlety pvp end of argument. it has to be changed, it will be changed.

[Verain]

can tell most people here don't pvp, rupture/sang vein change = death of subtlety pvp end of argument. it has to be changed, it will be changed.

I'm pretty sure this isn't really about that. In fact I think I made a thread to QQ about exactly that change here:
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-pvp-rotation

But I'm definitely not the only one who thinks that Sub needing to rupture right away in pvp is ludicrous. I mean, it feels like premeditation might as well say something about "...use these combo points for rupture, and good luck target swapping lololo".

That being said, note that other rogue specs beyond sub will be playable in pvp, as you are choosing between dps mechanics only (a change I suspect is worse for the game, but definitely something that the double dps hybrids and the pures get to deal with).



The thing is, rupture being 24 seconds baseline probably makes it worth casting by a narrow amount, and probably for all gear levels this time. That's honestly good enough for me- I've always liked rupture in pve (and heck, I used to like it back when I would 5-8 kite a warrior with it in pvp). It feels to me like a dot should be balanced around doing more damage than the instant attack, because the dot is self-limiting. Still, it doesn't need to be as good as rip or anything to be worth casting.

[Incineration]

Going with the current change/concept they have going on with Rupture:

1. Specify which specs need/want to use it. Assassination and Subtlety are a given, but Combat is in an awkward position. I don't want to see us go through the same crap that made Warlocks more complicated than they had to be. You've introduced "spec-bound skills" so make use of it.

2. Make our DPS dependent on Ruptures damage, and not dependent on Ruptures presence. There's a HUGE difference between the two, and currently, the latter one seems to be the way the devs want to go. Big mistake in my opinion, as it'll destroy any chance of target switching.

3. Boost its merits. Make Venomous Wounds hit harder or more often, or maybe produce more Energy, or make it free again for Sub... Something that makes it "useful" apart from just doing damage.

That's pretty much all that needs to be done. I really don't understand how they can screw up so badly...

[Maelstrom51]

Rupture damage increased by 50%.

Fixed.

[roflwaffle]

when ruptures up add an on SS/evic %damage bleed : P
like
when ruptures on the target your Evicerate makes the target bleed for %% of damage done over 5 seconds.
BAM

[Merope]

Make Rupture exclusive to Assassination and Sub and give combat a different finisher. Something that is a self buff and not a mob debuff that we can weave into our current rotation to at least shake things up a bit. Like:

<cool ability name>
35 Energy
Instant
Finishing move that consumes combo points on any nearby target to increase Agility by 2-3% per combo point.
Lasts longer per combo point:
1 point: 10 seconds
2 points: 13 seconds
3 points: 17 seconds
4 points: 21 seconds
5 points: 25 seconds

This way you can use this to buff Evisc/KSp/AR, but the duration should be such that to use it instead of Evisc (or vice versa) would be a dps loss.

OR a finisher that increases the chance to get a CP proc and make it such that at higher end tiers we would have to use the SS glyph because we'll be getting so much energy back from this + haste. Some nice built in auto-scaling there.

[Verain]

Going with the current change/concept they have going on with Rupture:

1. Specify which specs need/want to use it. Assassination and Subtlety are a given, but Combat is in an awkward position. I don't want to see us go through the same crap that made Warlocks more complicated than they had to be. You've introduced "spec-bound skills" so make use of it.

I need rupture in pvp, no matter my spec. Proposing the removal of a core ability is silly. I'd also like it in pve- combat is fine putting up a bleed, I've always liked doing it before, especially when it actually did damage. Again, on the beta currently it has a nice long duration, and so should be worth using.

2. Make our DPS dependent on Ruptures damage, and not dependent on Ruptures presence. There's a HUGE difference between the two, and currently, the latter one seems to be the way the devs want to go. Big mistake in my opinion, as it'll destroy any chance of target switching.

This is only a problem for sub actually- the assassination rupture will continue to do damage on the previous target (or refund energy). For sub, this crushes target swap, and is a terrible idea. Of course rupture should simply do damage.

3. Boost its merits. Make Venomous Wounds hit harder or more often, or maybe produce more Energy, or make it free again for Sub... Something that makes it "useful" apart from just doing damage.

I'm ok with it just doing damage. I think Rupture is probably in an ok place for A, because venomous wounds gives energy and does damage. For S it should just do more damage, and the same for C. Remember, it just needs to outdamage an eviscerate to be worth pressing- putting 20% of our damage on it seems really silly.

That's pretty much all that needs to be done. I really don't understand how they can screw up so badly...

They have never answered, but I can channel a dev and say something like:
"We don't want rogues to have to concern themselves with multidotting. That's not an image we have for the rogue class. We also want rogues to be threats while on target, and to be able to turn on their damage quickly, but we want the damage to go away when the rogue is controlled or kited."

Did they say that? No. But it seems like it would fit.

[Avengerx]

I think a flat damage increase to rupture would be quite boring, would even more increase our "passive" damage. (Yes I know it's not 100% passive but still...). For combat it would be a good idea for it to have a chance on tick to do something. Something active to spice up things.

About the rupture vs evis, even as combat it was a theoretical dps increase to use it. As it's damage per energy is/was better than evis's. Only due to increased haste and silly mechanics due most rogues opt to leave it out of their rotation.

[Maelstrom51]

Having Rupture not worth using by itself just makes target switching worse. And whichever way you spin it its still a passive debuff that does X, so I don't see the problem with just increasing its damage.