[Shadow] Raiding Beta Talents Theory-crafting

[Briggsta]

Figured there was a thread already like this but didn't seem to find anything. So I haven't done much testing on the beta trying out the talents such as the level 45 Archangel vs Mindbender vs FDCl and the level 75 Twist of Fate vs Power Infusion vs Divine Insight. I'm wondering if others have done some testing, as they seem to be fairly controversial.

Obviously there might be certain fights where you may pick up AA + PI for some insane burst phase (ex. Spine of Deathwing), Twist of Fate for extra dps when you gotta burn >20% (ex. Ragnaros), Mindbender if we experience mana issues etc.

Personally, just from a viewing stand point, overall FDCL would seem best and then Divine Insight, which almost seems mandatory as the auto refreshing on SWP is a very big deal. Then Halo for the level 90, as it seems to be clearly the biggest AOE dps increase.

[Psychomantis]

I have not done any number crunching so I don't know what wins in a patchwerk style fight but your right about some of the talents being more appealing in different situations.

Currently I have been running FDCL & Divine Insight and I like the feel of the rotation so far, that and I still have my T13 set bonus that has Shadow Word Death hitting like a truck. I still don't know about Divine insight even though it is a big deal now but shadow word pain is a little different in beta with the direct damage component added.

Level 90 abilities are completely up in the air till they raise the level cap and we get to see them in action however Cascade looks interesting.

[Ossi]

to me, twisted fate look awesome if there are mobs in boss fight (I.e. DS #3 boss, or #2Heroic), if SW: P inital damage worth at least 1 tick of MF, I think I won't pick DI. I agree that FDCL is obviously better than the other two though (in normal fights)

[Briggsta]

Divine Insight - Was trying out the initial damage of SWP to see if it is worth it, and the initial damage does only the same damage as one tick would be (initial damage = 6.1k, each tick = 6.1k)

Mindbender - For numbers sake, each attack from shadowfiend was doing about 5.5k-6.2k, Mindbender was doing around 12k-13.2k

Twist of Fate - I could see this being used in another way than actually doing damage >20%, is if someone spikes in health and you throw a Renew or Prayer of Mending (using Glyph of Dark Binding so you don't leave shadowform), but that is very unreliable and not sustainable, UNLESS there would happen to be a Chimaeron BWD type fight.

[Ananan]

If they want to keep the concept of Divine Insight I think it would be more interesting if it refreshed Vampiric Touch instead of Shadow Word: Pain. Vampiric Touch has a shorter duration, can't be cast on the run, and doesn't deal any initial damage, so that should be a decent buff for the talent.

[Ossi]

Divine Insight - Was trying out the initial damage of SWP to see if it is worth it, and the initial damage does only the same damage as one tick would be (initial damage = 6.1k, each tick = 6.1k)

Mindbender - For numbers sake, each attack from shadowfiend was doing about 5.5k-6.2k, Mindbender was doing around 12k-13.2k

Twist of Fate - I could see this being used in another way than actually doing damage >20%, is if someone spikes in health and you throw a Renew or Prayer of Mending (using Glyph of Dark Binding so you don't leave shadowform), but that is very unreliable and not sustainable, UNLESS there would happen to be a Chimaeron BWD type fight.

TF is awesome if there are mobs, it gives you a buff to increase damage, so after the mobs are dead, you can back to the boss with the buff

[Brusalk]

Not to mention hits like a wet noodle compared to SWP at the moment :P


I'd like to see them swap the damage of SWP and VT, so that VT hits for more, and SWP ticks similar to VT at the moment, but keeps it's current burst component.

Maybe it's just me coming from playing a spriest for so long, but VT was always the one that hit harder between the two, and it feels weird to always prefer SWP over VT on adds for some reason.

[Briggsta]

TF is awesome if there are mobs, it gives you a buff to increase damage, so after the mobs are dead, you can back to the boss with the buff

Oh I know, I was just thinking of other ways it could be used, I just assumed everyone would realize that haha.


And now, Divine Insight now affects Penance instead of Spirit Shell in Discipline spec. Shadow spec effect has been reworked - Periodic damage from your Mind Flay increases the damage of your next Mind Blast by 10%, stacking up to 10 times.

So that interesting..

[Ossi]

Oh I know, I was just thinking of other ways it could be used, I just assumed everyone would realize that haha.


And now, Divine Insight now affects Penance instead of Spirit Shell in Discipline spec. Shadow spec effect has been reworked - Periodic damage from your Mind Flay increases the damage of your next Mind Blast by 10%, stacking up to 10 times.

So that interesting..

guess this will made us having a soft haste cap if we are not 100% into haste

[Briggsta]

Quite a few changes.


Shadow Word: Death now grants a Shadow Orb if the target is below 20% health.

Talents
Divine Insight shadow effect modified - Periodic damage from your Shadow Word: Pain has a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Mind Blast and cause your next Mind Blast within 12 sec to be instant cast.
From Darkness, Comes Light Surge of Darkness has been reworked - Periodic damage from your Vampiric Touch has a 15% chance to cause your next Mind Spike to not consume your damage-over-time effects.

Shadow
Devouring Plague now scales from 16.6% of Spell Power, down from 50% of spell power.
Mind Surge (NNF) has been reworked - Reduces the cooldown of your Mind Blast based on your Haste.

Major Glyphs
Glyph of Devouring Plague might be increased to 33%, up from 10%. The change isn't in the tooltip but is in the spell effect.

[Ossi]

all I know with this change is we are 100% going to take DI.

[Brusalk]

Unless there is a burst phase you have to kill above 20% -> PI
or
Execute Phase requires high dps or lots of adds -> Twist of Fate

[Briggsta]

Unless there is a burst phase you have to kill above 20% -> PI
or
Execute Phase requires high dps or lots of adds -> Twist of Fate

Yea, exactly. Part of me likes the versatility we get (I assume other classes will get the same too) but then again I don't since there's always been the 'best way' to go in a spec and I'm just used to it lol.

[Deleted]

all I know with this change is we are 100% going to take DI.

I really doubt that. Seems to be oriented towards multidotting fights or high mobility fights/pvp (because it's instant). Twist of faith seems to be really powerful on add/execute fights especially now that shadow word: death grants a shadow orb. So on a fight like Cho'gall (heroic especially) you want to take Twist of faith whereas on a fight like Valiona and Theralion Divine Insight becomes superior.

I have a question: Where is Mind Surge displayed in the interface? When do you obtain it? Is it equal to our current Shadow Power when chosing specialization?

[Brusalk]

You obtain it when you spec Shadow, and it's just a passive effect at the end of the spellbook.

[Deleted]

I realy don´t understand FDcL why would anyone pick this talent MS does less dmg than everything else you could cast in this time or was the dmg boosted in the last build ? ( can´t get in the new build due to instant crit error ... )

[Briggsta]

I haven't been able to get in either cause of the error, but if it FDCL procs enough, getting the stacks up of mind spike > higher chance of mind blast crit.

[Brusalk]

With the new mind surge it's highly unlikely that you'll even get 2 stacks of the crit debuff. If you take Divine Insight, it happens often that you might have one, but most likely not.

The main problem with FDCL is that it requires a cast and doesn't hit for enough. Not to mention that if dragonwrath happens to proc it then you lose your dots from the second spike >.>

[Briggsta]

True enough, haven't tested the proc chance or anything with the new mind surge cause I can't even log in.

Does that really happen if dragonwrath procs? That would be shit..

[jisbilby]

Does that really happen if dragonwrath procs? That would be shit..

That would only be a problem for the ~2 weeks between the 5.0 patch and Mists launch, plus however long during levelling it takes you to replace DTR.