What is a liberal ?

[Catta]

Yeah, they got there because of socialism.

Yes - yes they did...
Things like schools n roads n stuff

[oblivionx]

School, I suppose. Anyway, the economy was going very well in the 1920's. The rich got richer and they invested. However, salaries remained low. Speculation was high. The progress at the Stock Exchange was not a reliable picture of the real economy. When rates began to fall down, people stopped buying. There was too much production compared with how much people were able or ready to buy. Prices fell down. Workers got fired. They could afford even less to buy, so the situation got from bad to worse.

The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act put huge tariffs on foreign goods in 1930. Other countries retaliated by doing the same. Of course it hurt international trade.

You make a great argument as the why we should end the civil service model of teaching.

[Frontenac]

You make a great argument as the why we should end the civil service model of teaching.

I would appreciate counter-arguments instead of insults, please.

[oblivionx]

I would appreciate counter-arguments instead of insults, please.

There is a counter-argument to someone saying "the capitalists" caused the great depression?

Ok, I'll give it a shot:

That's nonsense and you make a great argument as to why we should end the civil service model of teaching.

It was a number of factors all occuring in the same frame that caused it. From lack of regulations, lack of demand, a bad resolution to a world war, a booming stock market that had to come down eventually and a list I could go on about for a paragraph. Not to mention the crushing debt and destruction of a major power's currency.

You blame "the capitalists"?

[Wells]

Donations are not a zero sum game.
If people paid less in taxes, the disposable (And therefore donateable) income would grow.

Even assuming this is true, it doesn't mean charitable giving isn't a zero sum game.

[grayscale-warfare]

It told me that I have right-wing economic views, and libertarian social views, which sounds more or less correct to me.

[Frontenac]

There is a counter-argument to someone saying "the capitalists" caused the great depression?

Ok, I'll give it a shot:

That's nonsense and you make a great argument as to why we should end the civil service model of teaching.

It was a number of factors all occuring in the same frame that caused it. From lack of regulations, lack of demand, a bad resolution to a world war, a booming stock market that had to come down eventually and a list I could go on about for a paragraph. Not to mention the crushing debt and destruction of a major power's currency.

You blame "the capitalists"?

Lack of regulations, lack of demand, booming stock market (speculation) and maybe even the weakness of currency were all shortfalls of the capitalist system.

[smelltheglove]

There is a counter-argument to someone saying "the capitalists" caused the great depression?

he never that. he gave a reasoned answer to a question. this is why people take exception to your posts, and kind of shitty of you to do it at all, since i have seen you threaten to report others in this thread for posts less antagonistic

[oblivionx]

I'm still trying to figure out who "the capitalists" are and if there is a relation to "them" or if it's just code for republicans.

It's like the socialist and neo-socialist think they are somehow not capitalist at all, which is untrue.

Love to see where I threatened to report someone though.

[Frontenac]

I'm still trying to figure out who "the capitalists" are and if there is a relation to "them" or if it's just code for republicans.

It's like the socialist and neo-socialist think they are somehow not capitalist at all, which is untrue.

Love to see where I threatened to report someone though.

When I used the term "capitalists", I was refering to the great businessmen, big stockholders and the likes. Those who owned the capital. Both Republicans or Democrats or whatever the party in France, UK, Germany, etc. I may have generalized a little, but I wanted to give a short answer. It remains that those who are driving and benefiting from the system are also those who are responsible (even if not entirely) for its demise.

[smelltheglove]

Love to see where I threatened to report someone though.

my apologies, i must have gotten you mixed up. your paraphrasing his statements into rhetoric was still lame though

[buck008]

On the main two thought processes I've seen running the last few pages:

I don't see why we need to tear down the framework of the central government's welfare system, and turn everything into private charities to accomplish the things conservatives like. A streamlining of the current system with more oversight and more limitations and restrictions is all that is really required. Of course it's ridiculous that people can sit on welfare forever when they are perfectly capable of working, but we still need some kind of system in place for folks like the handicapped, or when the economy cycles down and many jobs are downsized simultaneously. By way of an anecdote, I had a family member a couple years ago move because their spouse was in the military. This person's job couldn't provide a transfer, leaving the person jobless in the new area. This person has a college degree and 20+ years of sales and sales management experience, and couldn't find a job for almost a year. Without some kind of social safety net, this person would have been screwed. When used correctly and responsibly the social services we have in place are not a terrible thing.

As far as the Depression goes, trying to tie it down to one cause is pointless and incorrect. There are things the private and public sector both could have done better to avoid the situation, though the collapse of the German economy after WWI may have made it inevitable. Rampant speculation didn't help matters. Speculators have always been an issue, however, so it's not as if anything could have been done.

As far as the condemnation of the public school model goes, that's a whole separate debate. Suffice it to say that if education was actually a priority in America, the public school system would be fine.

[eriseis]

The idea that a free market system for charity would be better than a centralized system is so absurd I don't even know how to argue against it without seeming like I'm talking down to someone.

I think the more important point is, unless I'm mistaken, you tend to take the conservative side of things and not even you are supporting a preposterous premise.

---------- Post added 2012-05-10 at 07:02 PM ----------

When the lump of cells is a viable fetus, it is wrong for the same reason murder is, except in cases of danger to the mother's health.

Who cares about the mother? It's still a viable fetus. Why is abortion wrong until the mom is in danger? We're still establishing arbitrary pragmatics for the fetus. Let the mother die, it's about the fetus anyway.

[Catta]

Who cares about the mother? It's still a viable fetus. Why is abortion wrong until the mom is in danger? We're still establishing arbitrary pragmatics for the fetus. Let the mother die, it's about the fetus anyway.

Its all about the fetus until its born - then they dont care about it...