History will repeat itself - Garrosh, Huojin and their future!

[Trassk]

but i can hope for redemption for my fav character right? rofl
Plus at this point it seems it can go either way

I like to think Garrosh will be made vunerable to Sha, beacuse he has been show to fight with honor
But who knows

The war is gonna get crazy, and desperate times call for desperate measures

I think from what we can gather so far, the reason the horde and alliance want to strike against garrosh in the end and remove him as warchief, is because he does something in this war so terrible it shakes the horde itself as a faction and causes the alliance to band together to be rid of him.
Garrosh isn't a nice guy, his concepts of honor are just to his want for world conquest.

[Dreknar20]

I think from what we can gather so far, the reason the horde and alliance want to strike against garrosh in the end and remove him as warchief, is because he does something in this war so terrible it shakes the horde itself as a faction and causes the alliance to band together to be rid of him.
Garrosh isn't a nice guy, his concepts of honor are just to his want for world conquest.

but as of right now, Garrosh is not fighting war just for the sake of fighting war, something the Old Horde was keen on
He is fighting for the benfit of the Horde
To secure Kalimdor's resources for the Horde only, to allow people to have a better standard of living that Durotar can provide

I mean the reasons why Thrall never settled in Ashenvele, is because
1. to avoid conflict with the Night Elves
2. To pay for the sins of their fathers

Garrosh dsnt follow with those thoughts
Garrosh believes that the only people that should pay for sins, is those who committed them (in which i kinda agree with Garrosh)

[Trassk]

but as of right now, Garrosh is not fighting war just for the sake of fighting war, something the Old Horde was keen on
He is fighting for the benfit of the Horde
To secure Kalimdor's resources for the Horde only, to allow people to have a better standard of living that Durotar can provide

thats the thing though, so much of kalimdor isn't just the hordes to claim. Infact, Garrosh proved he only see's what the rest of the horde nations have automatically belong to his army, that being his orcish army.
Garrosh does not see the horde as all other races, he seems the horde as orcs alone. He's taxing the other nations, forcing the tauren to give there drinking water since he poisoned there own, and keeps causing more rifts in the horde.

Metzen himself told us, he's a bad orc, make no mistake.

[Dreknar20]

thats the thing though, so much of kalimdor isn't just the hordes to claim. Infact, Garrosh proved he only see's what the rest of the horde nations have automatically belong to his army, that being his orcish army.
Garrosh does not see the horde as all other races, he seems the horde as orcs alone. He's taxing the other nations, forcing the tauren to give there drinking water since he poisoned there own, and keeps causing more rifts in the horde.

Metzen himself told us, he's a bad orc, make no mistake.

Well him favoring orcs and what results from his character flaw of being way too proud of himself, his race, and his heritage
It just goes back to Garrosh isnt suitable as a political leader
He dsnt have the "diplomatic" skills that Thrall had
For example, Thrall may hate the Forsaken's guts, but he still still smile and shake their hands
Garrosh does not care for such things (since hes use to being a military warlord), and says whatever he wants, how he wants

[Trassk]

Well him favoring orcs and what results from his character flaw of being way too proud of himself, his race, and his heritage
It just goes back to Garrosh isnt suitable as a political leader
He dsnt have the "diplomatic" skills that Thrall had
For example, Thrall may hate the Forsaken's guts, but he still still smile and shake their hands
Garrosh does not care for such things (since hes use to being a military warlord), and says whatever he wants, how he wants

Well Thrall is the one who brought the horde together, what people say about Garrosh as a military commander, that I might have agreed with, although I didn't like him in wrath either, and saw that his brash attitude was only kept in check with Saurfang watching over him.
But as it stands now, he isn't, and if Garrosh does something so terrible, war crimes, in pandaria that it no longer relates to the hordes best interests, then he's isn't going to find redemption.

It be like thinking of warlords in middle eastern countries that dictate there people, make them live in fear of them, cause there country to live a state of war all the time, and then, like the last three major warlords, are executed for there crimes. They didn't deserve anything less, so from a real life view of it, Garrosh is as much a war tyrent, and set to do a lot worse in pandaria.

[Dreknar20]

Well Thrall is the one who brought the horde together, what people say about Garrosh as a military commander, that I might have agreed with, although I didn't like him in wrath either, and saw that his brash attitude was only kept in check with Saurfang watching over him.
But as it stands now, he isn't, and if Garrosh does something so terrible, war crimes, in pandaria that it no longer relates to the hordes best interests, then he's isn't going to find redemption.

Well redemption isnt impossible, as long as that character learns from their mistakes
and then proves they learned it by destroying another evil or something

I mean as it is right now, right now in Cata
Garrosh really hsnt done anything damaging
He has done nothing yet to warrant an uprising against him
People would need a pretty dam good reason to risk thousands of lives, and the very Horde itself to rise against Garrosh
But as it stands right now, Garrosh has done nothing

[Irons Maidens]

Blizzard did mention that Ji's choice to join the Horde would "cost him dearly."

I personally think Garrosh will have Ji and various Huojin executed for not adhering to the strict war-like principles of the new-new Horde.

That would be a great catalyst for the Siege of Orgrimmar.

[Falrinn]

Blizzard did mention that Ji's choice to join the Horde would "cost him dearly."

I personally think Garrosh will have Ji and various Huojin executed for not adhering to the strict war-like principles of the new-new Horde.

That would be a great catalyst for the Siege of Orgrimmar.

I think Ji will live because there isn't really a logical replacement for him. Doesn't mean some minor Huojin won't end up on the chopping block, which could play into why Ji Firepaw joins the uprising.

[McFrotton]

it's nice to see that blizzard is putting a little more effort into their lore after how bad WOTLK was

This is your opinion only I hope add IMO next please, Iloved Wotlk lore and the expac was great, cata had a less interesting package but wasnt for me (to much fire lol).

---------- Post added 2012-05-10 at 07:34 AM ----------

TFH; kind of a take off from the point above...

The Old Gods use negative emotions ALOT. That's their main tool for leading mortals into corruption. What if the Sha/Old God connection is the Monkey King?
Think about it;
Who was the one who was able to pull those emotions out of the Last Emperor? The Monkey King.
Who else has shown that level of manipulation in regards to the negative emotions? Old Gods.
Instead of the Old Gods being "fallen" or "corrupted" Titans like above, what if the Monkey King is an Old God?
Then the question is did he help the Last Emperor because he wanted to use the Sha to his own ends, or did he help the Last Emperor because (more interesting IMHO) he is actually a renegade Old God? An Old God on our side for a change.

Using the Lovecraft analogy, I could see the Monkey King filling a role kinda half way between Nyarlathotep and Nodens.

FINALLY, I am not the only one thinking that ''MAYBE'' there is a good old god maybe lying somewhere, or just chaotic neutral/chaotic good........

Just an off-topic....to fight off sargeras we will probably need to team up witht he old gods one way or the other...

---------- Post added 2012-05-10 at 07:36 AM ----------

The concept of an Old god ally seems very interesting indeed. My friend and I were having a discussion about Sargeras and what would it take to kill him...and i mean actually destroy. As of today the titans we fought were either purged of evil or in case of Algalon we just "convinced" him not to blow up Azeroth. My opinion that only a Titan can kill another Titan and this would fit quite nicely in the the future lore when we get to Sargeras

First: ALgalon isnt a Titan, just a safety catch
Second we never fought a Titan.

[Envojus]

and what happens when at the end we find out N'zoth was behind it all along?

Truth is, seeing the images in ulduar, might well mean its all connected.

I don't think there is a connection between the stained glass in Ulduar and the sha. We now that the sha is a byproduct of the last Emperor of Pandaria when he cleansed his soul from all of his negative emotions in order to transcend. I think that was the last nail into the coffin.

And speaking of the Old Gods and Garrosh... I don't think the old Gods will have a direct influence on Garrosh. We won't see them corrupting him in any shape or form. What I am trying to say is that Garrosh will be a part of the "Bigger" plan. Just like everything else in Azeroth.