Build 15689

[Gohzerlock]

Things are looking better than before

No..... no they are not.

[Jessicka]

They have to trade off DPS to balance against PvP, mainly.

But obviously, some specs just get the short end of the stick (Fury), which is OK because after all, classes only really need one PvP-viable dps (or healing, for priests) spec.

Do you really think having a stance that offers improved survivability wont have an impact on PvP?
If they're moving away from a model that trades off DPS for utility/survivability, do you think that added survivability can be as strong as a true tank's?

It's not designed in a vacuum, and it's abundantly clear that DPS is not going to have to give in order to allow for this.

[Inactivity]

Do you really think having a stance that offers improved survivability wont have an impact on PvP?

All classes seem to have some sort of "improved survivability stance" except the warlock in live. Case in point: Cloak/Combat Readiness, Shield Wall, Frost Armor/Mage Armor (which can be swapped). Seems like as a class, until we even get a stance we're already at the shit end of things... oh wait, duh, 1v1 we're pretty much cannon food.

But I guess that's where you like to be... oh wait, your toon doesn't PvP... I wonder why.

If they're moving away from a model that trades off DPS for utility/survivability, do you think that added survivability can be as strong as a true tank's?

You can talk about vacuums so much that you can clean all 11 specs, but at the end of the day, even for PvP, there's nothing wrong with swapping out damage for suvivability on-demand. If anything, it makes PvP better, albeit harder. Obviously, even a frost DK in blood presence isn't going to have as much survivability as a blood DK in blood presence, and that's accounted for via blood-only talents.

Similarly, mastery will lower damage down in DA form, out of caster/meta form. But I guess that part's escaped a "vacuum" in your brain...

[Jessicka]

All classes seem to have some sort of "improved survivability stance" except the warlock in live. Case in point: Cloak/Combat Readiness, Shield Wall, Frost Armor/Mage Armor (which can be swapped). Seems like as a class, until we even get a stance we're already at the shit end of things... oh wait, duh, 1v1 we're pretty much cannon food.

But I guess that's where you like to be... oh wait, your toon doesn't PvP... I wonder why.

Uh what? How about Demon Armor, Soulburn: Healthstone... those fall into the same catagory as Cloak, Shield Wall, Frost Armor etc. Our major defensive cooldowns aren't as powerful as the likes of Shield Wall because we have 20-25% straight up mitigation. We're not meant to need them, and so outside of 1v1 or 2v2 we're actually amongst the most powerful PvP classes.

Moving into MoP, we wont need to Armor dance, we get a baseline defensive cooldown, Siphon Life is open to all specs through a Glyph, and Soul Link is arguably even more powerful than it is now.

You can talk about vacuums so much that you can clean all 11 specs, but at the end of the day, even for PvP, there's nothing wrong with swapping out damage for suvivability on-demand. If anything, it makes PvP better, albeit harder. Obviously, even a frost DK in blood presence isn't going to have as much survivability as a blood DK in blood presence, and that's accounted for via blood-only talents.

Similarly, mastery will lower damage down in DA form, out of caster/meta form. But I guess that part's escaped a "vacuum" in your brain...

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, are you disagreeing with me that DA's survivability should be nerfed ahead of DPS should it cause problems? That you think Blizzard would allow us to retain the survivability but trade off some DPS to 'compensate', even though I just posted GC's own comments that they felt that model was 'tired and old'?

Or are you saying that being able to switch stances wont have any impact at all, and therefore whatever it offers isn't worth considering?

[lockattack]

It's clearly the Direction they take. I will blame all locks and demo haters who did lobby against lock off-tanking (not as MT or queing as a tank) at the start of beta. If we are here today with this broken glyph, it's thanks to you guys. Grats

ps: he was fun to win against those frost mages spamming my instants, oh well. I guess next patchnote it will be bye bye Demon Hunting

ps2: I trully believe this glyph was the savior of warlock pvp

Regards, ex-glad SL/SL

don't worry so much. full time meta (for dps) will be here soon. that is the only solution at this point.


think about it:

if they make demo form just a small cd then people will want to go affliction or destro.

if they make demo form a huge cd then people will have to save it for certain phases of fights. this will cause overall dps for demo locks to be lower, even though they play an important role in burn phases. this will not appeal to the average raider who sees that the demo lock is always lowest on dps, so they lean more towards bringing say a mage to the raid. blizz won't have this happen.

the demo spec must have less volatile dps. solution: full time demon form.

[Keldion]

I cannot admit to being impressed with the constant revisions to Dark Apotheosis. The removal of the 10% flat DR was a good choice for the sake of consistency, but the present scaling (half Mastery as effective health) is weak.

[Jtree]

I cannot admit to being impressed with the constant revisions to Dark Apotheosis. The removal of the 10% flat DR was a good choice for the sake of consistency, but the present scaling (half Mastery as effective health) is weak.

What, wait? Mastery as EH? Where'd I miss that info?

[Keldion]

What, wait? Mastery as EH? Where'd I miss that info?

Dark Apotheosis calculates its damage reduction on the premise of linear scaling. The scalar in question is effective health.
The old DR granted is equal to 1 - (100 / (100 + (Mastery% / 2))).

EDIT: Changed in 15699, the formula now appears to grant twice your mastery bonus to EH.

1 - (100 / (100 + (Mastery% * 2)))

[Jtree]

Dark Apotheosis calculates its damage reduction on the premise of linear scaling. The scalar in question is effective health.
The DR granted is equal to 1 - (100 / (100 + (Mastery% / 2))).

Gotcha, thanks. That does sound clumsy.

[Xelnath]

Clumsy only when you look at the math. Logical in terms of stat scaling.