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  1. #1

    Why would anyone take Dark Bargain and Soul Link over Sacrificial Pact?

    Sacrificial Pact's absorption barrier, with enough HP scaling, can easily get up to 150000 HP of absorption for a poorly geared Warlock, and possibly 250000 or more for a well-geared one. Considering that a non-discipline priest's Power Word: Shield, with decent gear, gives around 20000 HP absorption, this is an incredible amount of damage absorption. Though it only lasts for 10 secs, it has a 1 min CD.

    Compare this to Dark Bargain, which grants 10 secs of immunity, and have 50% of the damage dealt over another 10 seconds with a 3 min CD. 250000 HP absorption from Sacrificial Pact, unless targeted by 3 players, will easily last the 10 secs that it is given against any 1 or 2 players. Undispellable too. In short, it serves the same function as Dark Bargain in a sense, with no after-damage DoT, or a CD 3 times as long.

    Now let's see Soul Link. For a 250000 HP Warlock, that would grant around 62500 HP only, and it also reduces our self-healing by dispersing it with our pets.

    There is just no reason to pick anything else over Sacrificial Pact unless Sacrificial Pact is nerfed (it already got nerfed from 300 -> 200%), or if Dark Bargain and Soul Link both get buffed.

    Make Dark Bargain's CD be reduced to 2 mins, and extend the DoT to twice as long, and maybe it's worth getting.

    Make Soul Link no longer split healing with pet, and increase its damage mitigation by another 5%, and perhaps it is worth taking.

    But to be honest, Soul Link really, really deserves to a baseline ability. Even with all the regen we get, our damage mitigation is horrible compared to Shadow Priests and Frost and Arcane Mages.

  2. #2
    Dark Bargain is much better for the predictable burst damage in PvE, and lets you cheese boss mechanics that would usually kill you outright (although your healers might hate you).
    Don't think only in terms of PvP!

  3. #3
    (short post, don't have time to develop)
    Soul Link is not a 20% or 25% damage and healing split. The damage ratio is based on your current health and your pet health.
    It also means that summoning a new pet will heal you. So if you're at 10% health and summon a new pet, you'll take barely no damage.
    Sacrificial Pact is 100% of your pet health as an absorb shield, but it only lasts 10s. Summoning a new pet at 10% health is like healing yourself for 90% your pet health. So unless the shield of SP is fully used, Soul Link will be better in that case.
    Wanna see how powerful Soul Link can be?


    Soul Link also doubles the self-healing you get with Dark Regeneration or Soul Leech.
    In a raid situation you'll get more healing through aoe heals (and pets barely take any damage in pve).
    Last edited by Ysen; 2012-05-13 at 09:08 PM.
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysen View Post
    (short post, don't have time to develop)
    Soul Link is not a 20% or 25% damage and healing split. The damage ratio is based on your current health and your pet health.
    It also means that summoning a new pet will heal you. So if you're at 10% health and summon a new pet, you'll take barely no damage.
    Sacrificial Pact is 100% of your pet health as an absorb shield, but it only lasts 10s. Summoning a new pet at 10% health is like healing yourself for 90% your pet health. So unless the shield of SP is fully used, Soul Link will be better in that case.
    Wanna see how powerful Soul Link can be?


    Soul Link also doubles the self-healing you get with Dark Regeneration or Soul Leech.
    In a raid situation you'll get more healing through aoe heals (and pets barely take any damage in pve).
    HOLY CRAP!

    I presumed Soul Link to be just the same old -20% damage split to pet as it is in Cataclysm. Are you sure it's not a bug?

    This means that if you are at 1% HP, your pet is at 100%, all damage flows to the pet, and if it is about to die, Soul Burn: Revive Pet, Flames of whatever (destruction), and Demonic Rebirth can instantly summon another one.

    Holy jesus, are you serious? That is very powerful indeed. Holy crap.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by creamie123 View Post
    HOLY CRAP!

    I presumed Soul Link to be just the same old -20% damage split to pet as it is in Cataclysm. Are you sure it's not a bug?

    This means that if you are at 1% HP, your pet is at 100%, all damage flows to the pet, and if it is about to die, Soul Burn: Revive Pet, Flames of whatever (destruction), and Demonic Rebirth can instantly summon another one.

    Holy jesus, are you serious? That is very powerful indeed. Holy crap.
    Omg I know. I just watched that video and was kinda freaking out. Basically, your pet becomes a clutch mechanic. The only spec I see having a problem with is demo because you can't force your pet back to life. With Destruction you can burn it for an ember and then resummon it with the same ember, giving it 100% health (basically saving your life if you're at -10%) with affliction you can just soulburn it out but with demo it has to die first which kinda sucks.
    Soulburn: Unstable Affliction. A boy can dream.

  6. #6
    It's sort of amusing that the pet spec is the only one without an easy means of in-combat pet summoning

  7. #7
    You have an instant summon in Demon Form (1min cd, 250 Fury).
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brauhm View Post
    The only spec I see having a problem with is demo because you can't force your pet back to life.
    You got a free pet-resummon every 2 minutes if your pet dies. Also you can instant summon a pet for 250(?) fury every minute

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Valyna View Post
    You got a free pet-resummon every 2 minutes if your pet dies. Also you can instant summon a pet for 250(?) fury every minute
    Oooh I did not know that. This makes Soul Link very very interesting.
    Soulburn: Unstable Affliction. A boy can dream.

  10. #10
    I woulr rather take Dark Bargain for most fights then Soul Link or the shield.

    Allot of bosses have ability's that can 1-shot players or leave a huge debuff but if you can reduce the damage to 50% over 10 secs then you may actually survive it.

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Each of the abilities have its own plus- For instance, with Sacrificial Pact, you can easily take Hour of Twilights for Ultraxion- Soul Link is probably the better choice for fights like Zon'ozz, Yor, ect that have constant AoE pulses- It effectively increases your health by the amount of your pet, for all intents and purposes, and a smart warlock can probably go an entire fight around 10% health on themselves, and just resummon thier minion repeatedly. However, both Soul Link and Sacrificial Pact would not allow you to take an impale- The impale damage would kill both you and your pet, and your absorb would be easily destroy your shield. Dark Bargain, on the other hand, reduces that 800k to 400k, and then you take the 400k over 10 seconds, or a 40k damage per second DoT, which, I believe, you can use absorbs and other abilities to help reduce that amount.

    Consistant raid damage, Soul Link. Single instances of burst, Sacrificial Pact. Huge incoming damage mechanic, Dark Bargain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  12. #12
    Wow, so this means that the baseline Soul Link that we have was not 'nerfed' in becoming a non-baseline ability.

    The revamp is so totally cool, and I must agree that it's way amazing for PvP. An almost absolute must-have for PvP. Now the problem lies the other way round: Sacrificial Pact could use a slight bit of a buff.

    I'm pretty sure they will remove the summon pet issue that makes Soul Link so powerful, but even right now as it stands, the more damage you take, the higher the damage mitigation is still much much much better than the normal -20% HP.

    Now THAT also explains why I see videos of MoP Warlock duels with Soul Link where the Warlock just couldn't die at 5% HP even after lots of burst onto them. It's a very good way to drain life and recharge using this powerful ability. And yea, Dark Regeneration (heals both Pet and Warlock) plus Soul Link = PWN.

  13. #13
    Not that I'm complaining, but this is absolutely overpowered in PvP. I mean, going through 2 Health Pools for one kill? Isn't that like too much?

    I'm thinking this is a glitch. There is NO way that's the new soul link.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugarfree View Post
    Not that I'm complaining, but this is absolutely overpowered in PvP. I mean, going through 2 Health Pools for one kill? Isn't that like too much?

    I'm thinking this is a glitch. There is NO way that's the new soul link.
    If you take a look around at the other classes, there is a TON of healing/mitigation out there now. Mages have, I think, a 30% health bubble on a 30 sec CD, which restores mana, 20% health heal every 10 seconds, as well as a choice between Cauterize, which has been changed to 60% health restore, 45% health damaged, Ice Barrier,and Temporal Shield, which takes damage done in a 4 second period and undoes it over 6 seconds, 30 sec CD.

    There are similar things for nearly all other classes. I feel that pvp, dps vs dps, will easily last 5 minutes, and arenas will commonly take 10+ minutes (Whittling down HP instead of bursting it down)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by sugarfree View Post
    Not that I'm complaining, but this is absolutely overpowered in PvP. I mean, going through 2 Health Pools for one kill? Isn't that like too much?

    I'm thinking this is a glitch. There is NO way that's the new soul link.
    It's terrible for PvP because all you have to do is focus the Warlock's pet (who doesn't scale with resilience [that I know of]) until the Warlock dies.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by creamie123 View Post
    I'm pretty sure they will remove the summon pet issue that makes Soul Link so powerful, but even right now as it stands, the more damage you take, the higher the damage mitigation is still much much much better than the normal -20% HP.
    Soul Link is no real mitigation. Consider it as a health increase that allows you to receive healing (and damage) through your pet.
    Let's say you have 200,000hp and your pet 100,000hp.
    Something hits you for 250k. with Soul Link on you'll still fully take the 250k damage, it's just that you'll get 166,667dmg and your pet 83 333. The damage ratio is 67/33.
    Also it doesn't matter who's hit. If your pet were the target, the split dmg would be the same (Although your pet might have more or less mitigation -armor/resilience- but that's not the point).
    Now you're at 33,333hp, and your pet at 16,667hp. You summon a new pet, he goes to 100k hp, it's like healing him (or you so) for 83,333.
    Something hits you for 100k. You take 25,000dmg, and your pet 75,000. The damage ratio is now 25/75, but you still fully take the 100k.

    So it's no mitigation. Summoning a pet when you're low hp and someone focusing you is not that much powerful than using Sacrificial Pact. The former gives you a self-heal for (100%-yourhp%) of your pet health, the latter a shield for 100% of your pet current health.
    I'd still prefer Soul Link (for pve) because it doesn't last 10s though. For pvp as others point out, using an ability that ables you to be damaged through your pet is probably a bad idea.
    Last edited by Ysen; 2012-05-14 at 07:30 AM.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Ysen View Post
    Soul Link is no real mitigation. Consider it as a health increase that allows you to receive healing (and damage) through your pet.
    Let's say you have 200,000hp and your pet 100,000hp.
    Something hits you for 250k. with Soul Link on you'll still fully take the 250k damage, it's just that you'll get 166,667dmg and your pet 83 333. The damage ratio is 67/33.
    Also it doesn't matter who's hit. If your pet were the target, the split dmg would be the same (Although your pet might have more or less mitigation -armor/resilience- but that's not the point).
    Now you're at 33,333hp, and your pet at 16,667hp. You summon a new pet, he goes to 100k hp, it's like healing him (or you so) for 83,333.
    Something hits you for 100k. You take 25,000dmg, and your pet 75,000. The damage ratio is now 25/75, but you still fully take the 100k.

    So it's no mitigation. Summoning a pet when you're low hp and someone focusing you is not that much powerful than using Sacrificial Pact. The former gives you a self-heal for (100%-yourhp%) of your pet health, the latter a shield for 100% of your pet current health.
    I'd still prefer Soul Link (for pve) because it doesn't last 10s though. For pvp as others point out, using an ability that ables you to be damaged through your pet is probably a bad idea.
    Well, regardless, it sure trumps the old Soul Link. Even if the starting mitigation is -33%, it is still way higher than the original -20%. As the battle progresses, and if you using a Felhunter or a Voidwalker, the Felhunter can heal itself a bit, while the Voidwalker has a 25% HP self-heal. This will bring the mitigation slightly higher to maybe -40% during mid-battles. Still very potent.

    I can honestly imagine the looks of someone who is about to kill you, then you resummon a pet for a -90% mitigation, or if you are demonology, you get a 2nd Summon (kill the pet using Grimoire of Sacrifice and resummon). It's like a second life if you did ask me.

    The only question that remains is this: how would Soul Link affect life drains and heals? If you use Soul Burn: Harvest Life to drain 8% HP per sec, does it become mitigated to only 5%? Or 1% as the damage mitigation hits -90%? What of other heals like Dark Regeneration, Healthstone and Mortal Coil?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by creamie123 View Post
    The only question that remains is this: how would Soul Link affect life drains and heals? If you use Soul Burn: Harvest Life to drain 8% HP per sec, does it become mitigated to only 5%? Or 1% as the damage mitigation hits -90%? What of other heals like Dark Regeneration, Healthstone and Mortal Coil?
    The healing ratio is the same as the damage one.
    If you're at 33,333hp and your pet is at 16,667 (67/33), you get 67% of the healing and your pet 33%.
    If your pet is at full health, obviously you get 100% of the healing.

    For Soul Leech it's a bit different. You get twice the healing because you both your and your pet healing are split. Example from a combatlog:
    Ysen's Demonic Slash hits Boss for 13245 Shadow - So you're supposed to get 1324 heal from that
    Ysen's Soul Leech heals Ysen for 784 (673 Absorbed) - The 1324 is split as 712/613, but there's the 10% buff from Fel Armor, so it's 784/673
    Ysen's Soul Leech heals Mypet for 613 (712 Absorbed) - Normal split
    Ysen's Soul Link heals Ysen for 784 - This is the 712 from my pet, with the 10% buff from Fel Armor.
    My pet does get the 673 heal, but it doesn't show in the log.
    Last edited by Ysen; 2012-05-14 at 08:49 AM.
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  19. #19
    Epic! Nyxxi's Avatar
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    Soul link is very easy to overcome in PVP, burst the lock down to 5% until he starts taking almost no damage, then smack the demon and the lock dies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crym View Post
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyxxi View Post
    Soul link is very easy to overcome in PVP, burst the lock down to 5% until he starts taking almost no damage, then smack the demon and the lock dies.
    That's not how it works in MoP.
    If the lock has Soul Link since the beginning, bursting him to 5% means the pet will be also at 5% at that point.
    If I have 200k hp and my pet 100k, you need to do 285k damage to get me to 5%. It doesn't matter who takes the damage, the split will be the same (although the pet doesn't benefit from resilience I guess, so he'll be an easier target).
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