Well done Blizzard!

[Shiny212]

Please tell me,what are these "true gamers" you speak of? How are they different from normal gamers.

True gamers value challenge, don't ask for nerfs; and most importantly they do not wish to be rewarded unless they also get the feeling of having earned it.

[Chickat]

True gamers value challenge, don't ask for nerfs; and most importantly they do not wish to be rewarded unless they also get the feeling of having earned it.

You are thinking of elitist gamers my friend. Why does it matter if i beat what you beat 3 months later with a 20% nerf? In the next expansion anyone would be able to get the achievements anyways, so its not like keeping it un nerfed really does anything.

[Deleted]

Hah, classic, thats not a true gamer thats just a dedicated gamer, your attitude is that of an elitest gamer. True gamers is as pointless a saying as fake gamers it doesnt exist there is no true gamers certainly not in the ridiculous sense that they have some kind of superiority over other gamers, total nonsense. Agree wto disagree i suppose, Im happy to have owned every console going and consider myself a gamer, I dont consider myself superior to other people purely because I managed to down emerald weapon on FF7.

A true gamer can be perfectly content clearing normal if that is his max because he lacks dedication. Nothing elitist by beating normal. Yes true gamers can be elitists and they pretty much deserve the right to do so because they are better than other people in this specific aspect. Saying otherwise is like saying I am an equal footbal player to Arjen Robben, even tho he is better.

WoW simply caters to alot of people that are unwilling or unable to accept that some stuff is too hard for them, Diablo does not. Diablo is extremely hard in the high end and will remain so.

[Gande]

You are thinking of elitist gamers my friend. Why does it matter if i beat what you beat 3 months later with a 20% nerf? In the next expansion anyone would be able to get the achievements anyways, so its not like keeping it un nerfed really does anything.

Disagreed. Through many guild setbacks we were late on the train in Firelands. We ended up with our actual roster and killed normal rag 3 weeks before the nerfs. We went 5/7, and were close to beating the wall of baleroc (had we had more time). Then the nerfs came and we roflstomped it. Did it feel earned? Hell naw. Some of us actually raid for the challenge, not to sit in a city showing off our gear and mounts.

To refine, true gamers are the ones whom asked for challenge modes.

[Deleted]

You are thinking of elitist gamers my friend. Why does it matter if i beat what you beat 3 months later with a 20% nerf? In the next expansion anyone would be able to get the achievements anyways, so its not like keeping it un nerfed really does anything.

Elitist is the wrong word, elitist gamers are narcissistic look down on others and refer to people with less skill than them as inferior, elite gamers are the people shiny 212 is describing.

My view of true gamers would of course be people who want to game, doesn't really matter how they do it. I thought that was simple

[Deeply-Fried Orange]

You are thinking of elitist gamers my friend. Why does it matter if i beat what you beat 3 months later with a 20% nerf? In the next expansion anyone would be able to get the achievements anyways, so its not like keeping it un nerfed really does anything.

Having beaten that content becomes a devalued feat. The quality of players required to beat content decreases rapidly.

For example, one of the guilds where I used to have an alt. They are a 25man guild. Awful RL, terrible healers (my alt was a healer and it was the only reason they got H Magmaw down in 10man mode, didn't get him down in 25man) and overall low quality of raiders.

T11: 3/13H
T12: 1/7H pre-nerf
T12: 6/7H post-nerf
T13: 1/8H pre-nerf
T13: 8/8H post-nerf. World #4100ish

No, they didn't get better, not a little bit, but mama Blizzard says they are biiiiiiiiiiig and stroooooooong.

[draykorinee]

My view of true gamers would of course be people who want to game, doesn't really matter how they do it. I thought that was simple

It is that simple, its very simple indeed. Unfortunately people decide its something that makes you superior to everyone else, if your going to use the term true gamer the only real use should be for someone who enjoys gaming as a past time. I have never 'called' for a nerf but because I can only defeat bosses post nerfs im not a true gamer im supposedly a fake gamer.

[Raphtheone]

It is an RPG. The actual term is Action-RPG. You Role Play such as I play a Barb, I can't customise anything about how he looks or speaks so I role play the Barb in the Diablo world. And as you go about questing you see the story unfolding in front of your eyes. Me and my friends agreed to being completely immersed in this game unlike other so called RPG's.

This would make every game ever made an RPG. Crysis was an RPG. Sonic the Hedgehog was an RPG. Starcraft was an RPG. Even interactive DVD's would be an RPG by your definition.

You are thinking of elitist gamers my friend. Why does it matter if i beat what you beat 3 months later with a 20% nerf? In the next expansion anyone would be able to get the achievements anyways, so its not like keeping it un nerfed really does anything.

You're confusing people who sits on their high horses looking down on people, and making sure the people they look down on feel like they are worth less, with people who own large horses and sit on them. There is nothing wrong with doing something (long) after someone else, and even at a severely reduced difficulty, you can still be a true gamer. Claiming to be good at something doesn't make you arrogant or elitist when you are, but making sure that the people around you feel they're worth less in the process is. It's apples and oranges. A true gamer can be humble. He can also be the biggest, baddest, most arrogant person you've ever met. It doesn't alter the fact that he is (or isn't) a true gamer.

There are artists, and there are (true) artists. Mona Lisa is just a piece of cloth and some paint. Experience, or even time investment doesn't make you a true artist, but when your end result is larger than the sum of its parts, you're well on your way. It's the same with gaming. Some gamers make gaming look like art. Heaton sure did during his prime. Or the warrior who seemingly dances on the battlefield. Or the guy that can make any non-believer believe. Or the pilot that can make any landing in any weather. Those are artists, and true to their form.

[Deleted]

Having beaten that content becomes a devalued feat. The quality of players required to beat content decreases rapidly.

For example, one of the guilds where I used to have an alt. They are a 25man guild. Awful RL, terrible healers (my alt was a healer and it was the only reason they got H Magmaw down in 10man mode, didn't get him down in 25man) and overall low quality of raiders.

T11: 3/13H
T12: 1/7H pre-nerf
T12: 6/7H post-nerf
T13: 1/8H pre-nerf
T13: 8/8H post-nerf. World #4100ish

No, they didn't get better, not a little bit, but mama Blizzard says they are biiiiiiiiiiig and stroooooooong.

And them being able to down content takes away from people.....how?
I don't understand the attitude "OMG Scrubs killing stuff too, fuck you Blizzard!!½!½!"
So you killed it already and now someone else did too? Gratz to you i suppose, but the nerfs were needed so that other people could kill it too. It doesn't take anything away from anyone unless you have RL inferiority complex and need a 1337 E-Peen to show off in cities...

[Upptagen]

Yep. Some are better than others at something. When you aren't as good at something as somebody, you do not deserve things the somebody deserves. Heroic content stopped being a challenge and became a tool for keeping the players busy. 1100 guilds killed Sinestra in T11, 1700 guilds killed H Ragnaros in T12, 4600 guilds killed H Deathwing by now. And my expectations for MoP difficulty are rather dim.

Let's imagine that current tier is a 1000 yards sprint.

Runner A finishes it in 30 seconds and get a shiny "WINNER" medal. This guy is from a top guild. They've put a lot of time and effort and achieved the kill very fast, mostly in previous tier's gear.

Runner B finishes it in 45 seconds and gets a shiny "WINNER" medal. This guy is from a good guild. They've put a lot of time and effort and achieved the kill, even though that took them more time and gear.

Runner C finishes it in 7 minutes 54 seconds and gets a shiny "WINNER" medal. This guy is from a mediocre guild. The content was nerfed multiple times and they had enough time to get full heroic gear from current tier to achieve the kill.

Can A and B feel proud about having the medal that C also has? Can C feel proud about having the medal which he got so much easier than A and B?

Another example? There is a mathematical problem. The person who solves it correctly gets an A. The person who solves it incorrectly gets an A. The person who draws a pony gets an A. Does having an A for that problem stand for anything?

This is the reason why I'm not playing WoW anymore.

[Raphtheone]

And them being able to down content takes away from people.....how?
I don't understand the attitude "OMG Scrubs killing stuff too, fuck you Blizzard!!½!½!"
So you killed it already and now someone else did too? Gratz to you i suppose, but the nerfs were needed so that other people could kill it too. It doesn't take anything away from anyone unless you have RL inferiority complex and need a 1337 E-Peen to show off in cities...

Those that cleared it pre-nerfs are doing that content too. It's easy to forget that nerfing content so more people can do it means it becomes mind-blowingly easy for those that did it without the nerfs. I think this is the base of the complaints, I only think there's a small part complaining that others (less skilled) players are doing the same stuff as them. What you do doesn't affect me, for instance, but if my content is being nerfed so you can do it too, my enjoyment of the game has to suffer. That isn't fair.

Turning it around, why should I feel entitled to having more fun at your expense? Doesn't that make me elitist, even if you play on a level above my own?

[Aberration]

lol - in 12 month it will be like d3 neva existed this game is so dead in 2 month
(apart from the chinese farmers and botters who have a new way of income by then)

Not sure if trolling or just ignorant to how Diablo 2 servers are still full of people 11 years later.

[Darsithis]

I'm loving it myself. Totally fits in the same theme of the previous games and I like some of the QoL enhancements...like picking up gold by walking over it

[Maelle]

Those that cleared it pre-nerfs are doing that content too. It's easy to forget that nerfing content so more people can do it means it becomes mind-blowingly easy for those that did it without the nerfs. I think this is the base of the complaints, I only think there's a small part complaining that others (less skilled) players are doing the same stuff as them. What you do doesn't affect me, for instance, but if my content is being nerfed so you can do it too, my enjoyment of the game has to suffer. That isn't fair.

Turning it around, why should I feel entitled to having more fun at your expense? Doesn't that make me elitist, even if you play on a level above my own?

Yeah it's a tough break for guilds farming the same content every week, that over the course of a few months, their easy farm night becomes easier to enable others to catch up... really, I shed a tear.

[Prag]

Sorry to be a dick but D3 isn't an rpg. It's a hack n slash with a storyline :/



Agree.

Sorry to be a dick but your definitions of gaming genres are off.

Even a popular magazine recognizes it as an RPG.


OT: Having never been really "into" Diablo I (I played for a few weeks, had no clue what I was doing) I'm really enjoying myself. The story is a blast, and I've had a pretty enjoyable experience with the Witch Doctor - one of the more interesting classes I've ever played.

[Venziir]

lol - in 12 month it will be like d3 neva existed this game is so dead in 2 month
(apart from the chinese farmers and botters who have a new way of income by then)

Because Diablo 2 died after a few months and until a day ago still wasn't a huge succes played by a lot of people... O WAIT!

[dd614]

lol - in 12 month it will be like d3 neva existed this game is so dead in 2 month
(apart from the chinese farmers and botters who have a new way of income by then)

People still play Diablo 2 10 years later, so I'd say you'll be incorrect.

[lsi1ver]

Yep. Some are better than others at something. When you aren't as good at something as somebody, you do not deserve things the somebody deserves. Heroic content stopped being a challenge and became a tool for keeping the players busy. 1100 guilds killed Sinestra in T11, 1700 guilds killed H Ragnaros in T12, 4600 guilds killed H Deathwing by now. And my expectations for MoP difficulty are rather dim.

Let's imagine that current tier is a 1000 yards sprint.


Runner A finishes it in 30 seconds and get a shiny "WINNER" medal. This guy is from a top guild. They've put a lot of time and effort and achieved the kill very fast, mostly in previous tier's gear.

Runner B finishes it in 45 seconds and gets a shiny "WINNER" medal. This guy is from a good guild. They've put a lot of time and effort and achieved the kill, even though that took them more time and gear.

Runner C finishes it in 7 minutes 54 seconds and gets a shiny "WINNER" medal. This guy is from a mediocre guild. The content was nerfed multiple times and they had enough time to get full heroic gear from current tier to achieve the kill.

Can A and B feel proud about having the medal that C also has? Can C feel proud about having the medal which he got so much easier than A and B?

Another example? There is a mathematical problem. The person who solves it correctly gets an A. The person who solves it incorrectly gets an A. The person who draws a pony gets an A. Does having an A for that problem stand for anything?

So your not proud of your achievement because someone else has it too? and they had it easier? people are to busy crying about what someone else has and can't be proud of thier own work. If you kicked ass be proud of it. doesn't matter what anyone else did. blizz nerfs the content so the people can actually see it unlike in vanilla and bc where like only 10% seen all the endgame content. get off your elitist opinion and let other people see the damn game. btw its not so much of a race as it is a challenge to get to the end, unless you're going for world firsts it doesn't really matter.

[draykorinee]

Another example? There is a mathematical problem. The person who solves it correctly gets an A. The person who solves it incorrectly gets an A. The person who draws a pony gets an A. Does having an A for that problem stand for anything?

Children A,B,C,D are in there first maths lesson, whoever finishes there sums gets a cookie, the teacher does not let them use a calculator.
In the first lesson child A, who loves maths and spends lots of time doing maths, finishes his sums and gets a cookie, child B almost gets a cookie but cant manage few, child C isnt even close and person D is too busy daydreaming about kissing jenny on the lips in the cloakroom so doesnt get a cookie.
By the 4th lesson only person A has gotten a cookie in the lessons, hes so happy and he gets to gloat at the others, yay!, so in fairness the teacher gets the calculators out child B finally gets all his sums done and gets a cookie, yummy! so now child a+b each get a cookie every week, lucky children, but child C still struggles and child D has only managed one or two because mary keeps giving him love notes under the desk.
Near the end of term, the teacher decides to give extra help to child c+d, child a+b are happily eating cookies when finally child c finishes all the sums and gets a cookie, nice one kid! Child D finally decides he wants one but as hes not really paid attention he only manages the majority of the sums, the teachers kind and gives him LFR...i mean half a cookie.
So child A,B + C all have a cookie each week and child D whos getting all the girls anyway,gets half a cookie, everyone is happy....or so youd think but child A is now throwing a tantrum in the corner because everyone has a cookie even though hes the cleverest and maybe only he should get a cookie, the teacher says no everyone should get one, but next term you wont have calculators again, child A is still super mad and runs out of the class and never returns. What a spoilt kid...

The end.

PS if you changed your ego inflating 'WINNERS' medal to a 'congratulations on finishing' medal like you get when you actually do a marathon it reads entirely different. Having run marathons with my family, believe me I couldn't give a monkies when my brothers finished im just happy I finished, and they are the same. Its a shame people need this 'WINNERS' medal at all.

My story above is why I love and will continue to play wow.

[Pua]

Hah, classic, thats not a true gamer thats just a dedicated gamer, your attitude is that of an elitest gamer. True gamers is as pointless a saying as fake gamers it doesnt exist there is no true gamers certainly not in the ridiculous sense that they have some kind of superiority over other gamers, total nonsense. Agree wto disagree i suppose, Im happy to have owned every console going and consider myself a gamer, I dont consider myself superior to other people purely because I managed to down emerald weapon on FF7.

It's absolutely astonishing what people will get upset by nowadays.

Incidentally, props to Blizzard - they've stuck with the nuts and bolts of what made Diablo great (as far as I'm concerned), and showed a remarkable level of class by redeeming GAME Australia customers who'd pre-ordered.