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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Glyph of Flame Shock - no initial damage, but increased uptime, same type of tradeoff as the Inquisition glyph
    Glyph of Recklessness - Reduced damage boost, increased uptime.
    Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon - Reduced damage but increased threat generation


    There's probably more, I by no means did a thorough search, but your claim that no other class makes these kinds of tradeoffs in glyphs is simply not true.
    I assume what Req meant was that other classes don't really have training wheels incorporated into their glyphs and I don't think we need it for an ability that we get so late in the game. If you haven't learned how to play your class by then, the glyph isn't really going to make a difference. As for leveling, they design and balance the game for max level so why do we need a glyph for a very small portion of the expansion. Also using Inq while questing is not necessary at all so again, why do we need a glyph for it?

    Also, my shaman info may be out of date but doesn't FS do pretty pathetic damage per cast? Isn't it only used for it's augmentation of other skills? So wouldn't freeing up GCDs for better skills be a possible damage increase or even a wash in terms of damage but a quality of life improvement?
    Same idea with dancing rune weapon since it seems to be a positive change for DK tanks and burst threat. I'm not sure about the warrior one but the other two definitely seem like overall positive glyphs where our Inq glyph is, as previously stated, a slap in the face.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt66 View Post
    As for leveling, they design and balance the game for max level so why do we need a glyph for a very small portion of the expansion. Also using Inq while questing is not necessary at all so again, why do we need a glyph for it?
    exactly my point, but it's the only thing I can see this glyph has any use for...
    Last edited by Lustobject; 2012-05-19 at 12:20 AM.

  3. #43
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt66 View Post
    I assume what Req meant was that other classes don't really have training wheels incorporated into their glyphs and I don't think we need it for an ability that we get so late in the game. If you haven't learned how to play your class by then, the glyph isn't really going to make a difference. As for leveling, they design and balance the game for max level so why do we need a glyph for a very small portion of the expansion. Also using Inq while questing is not necessary at all so again, why do we need a glyph for it?
    I'm not saying it's an awesome glyph and totally a DPS increase. I'm saying other classes have glyphs with similar tradeoffs. If you don't like the tradeoff, just don't use the glyph; it's not like it's a forced change to the ability.

    It may be that only "bad" Rets who don't like managing uptime would take it, but they're still a group that can be catered to.

    Also, my shaman info may be out of date but doesn't FS do pretty pathetic damage per cast? Isn't it only used for it's augmentation of other skills? So wouldn't freeing up GCDs for better skills be a possible damage increase or even a wash in terms of damage but a quality of life improvement?
    Same idea with dancing rune weapon since it seems to be a positive change for DK tanks and burst threat. I'm not sure about the warrior one but the other two definitely seem like overall positive glyphs where our Inq glyph is, as previously stated, a slap in the face.
    FS's DPCT is pretty high, but it's a DoT; the glyph will translate into more damage per cast, but less DPS from Flame Shock directly. The idea behind it is that you make up that DPS loss with more Earth Shocks, for a net DPS gain.

    While I think 15% is going to be too high to see similar returns in this particular case, it's going to boil down to how much Holy damage you get out of Inquisition, compared to the extra TVs you can get off with the HP/GCDs you're saving on Inquisition. There's going to be a sweet spot where the percentage loss is low enough that the extra TVs are tempting. It'll probably always be DPS-neutral at best, because you're still gaining convenience, but it may be a viable option at least.

  4. #44
    for the last time... diseases arent comparable to the other 3

  5. #45
    inq glyph is a dps loss in every single case scenario; from players that barely use inq(brain-dead bads) to players that have 100% inq uptime(hardcore raiders).
    inq glyph will be only useful to spot and kick bads from pugs; any ret with inq glyph will be kicked.
    the glyph is just a bad design, they should just get rid of it.

    wtb usefull and cool glyphs like 'gag order' or 'icy touch'
    Last edited by ducklino; 2012-05-19 at 05:55 AM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Glyph of Flame Shock - no initial damage, but increased uptime, same type of tradeoff as the Inquisition glyph
    Glyph of Recklessness - Reduced damage boost, increased uptime.
    Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon - Reduced damage but increased threat generation


    There's probably more, I by no means did a thorough search, but your claim that no other class makes these kinds of tradeoffs in glyphs is simply not true.
    It's a bit different when it affects an ability that gives you 30% on your main damage source.
    Apart from Reck, which is a long cd the ones you list are nowhere near as important as Inquistion in a spec rotation..

  7. #47
    Brewmaster Fredzilla's Avatar
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    It's also kind of hard to compare tank cooldowns to dps abilities.

    I'm just annoyed because it's a waste of a glyph available to us because they want to facilitate lazy people who can't be bothered to learn the mechanic (one blizz had already stated they don't like before giving it to us) when other classes don't waste glyph slots for similar things as req pointed out. Just imagine how much more useful some other, unspecified glyph could be compared to this junk.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ducklino View Post
    inq glyph is a dps loss in every single case scenario
    Its probably meant to be. A trade off for the increased "convenience".

    EJL

  9. #49
    Dreadlord ipoststuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Its probably meant to be. A trade off for the increased "convenience".

    EJL
    Nope. They want it to be a dps increase for players who strugle with uptime and dps loss for good players.

    But they ended up with dps loss no matter what.

    The glyph will be the equivalent of retri aura. Reserved for noobs.

  10. #50
    What if Blizzard changed it to where you lose the bonus damage by 15% (or whatever balancing number) but every time the paladin uses Judgement the Inquisition counter is increased by 6 to 8 seconds that can't extend past the maximum. After the initial inquisition that would force the glyphed paladin to hit Judgement on cooldown, if its 6 seconds its a steady loss but it would take atleast 2 minutes for another reapply of Inquisition but if its time neutral 8 seconds then it would force the paladin to hit Judgement on cooldown. Looking at how ret will work hitting judgement on cooldown could still be a dps loss over the long run vs an unglyphed player. Personally I like maitenence buffs but there needs to be a UI improvement that will help those players who need it.

  11. #51
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kath01 View Post
    It's a bit different when it affects an ability that gives you 30% on your main damage source.
    Elemental Shaman here.

    Lightning Bolt and Lava Burst, both are VERY high portion of our damage I am sure you won't argue?

    Our convinence gylphs:

    LB - can cast while moving but cast takes 5% longer.
    LvB - can crit without DoT but lose 10% power.

    The quality of life comes with a direct dps lost, which you have to weight up to see if it is worth while, take it if it suits you, and don't if you don't like it. As far as I know most of the gylph out there that gives you a quality of life changes comes with a dps loss to compensate.

  12. #52
    Mechagnome Vuagnon's Avatar
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    Holy Power was a horrid idea at the first place. I'm now glad to have quit long ago. This game lacks the staff quality.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonuts View Post
    Pretty sad when being deathgripped is my most reliable gap closer! THAT is some BS too.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Vuagnon View Post
    Holy Power was a horrid idea at the first place. I'm now glad to have quit long ago. This game lacks the staff quality.
    Disagree. The class needed something like Holy Power. And, as a resource, Combo point systems tend to work very well.

    The problem isn't the mechanic per se. Its the way its integrated into the class.

    The baseline toolkit is still anaemic in MoP. This limits what can be done, and results on overloading abilities with secondary effects.
    Far too few finishers to make things interesting or involved. Its OK to have jsut one or two main finishers, not so to have one or two total.
    There is no primary resource for the system to work off of. No analogue to a rogues energy. Mana could work, but would still be second rate.

    Blizzard needs to simply let go of its "vision" for the class and take a look at what is needed.

    The class needs a decent, baseline toolkit. That means making tools such as DS and TV baseline. Perhaps even LoD and HR.
    The class needs a decent primary resource to separate melee from healing and permit the removal of various poor mechanics.
    The class needs a role differentiation mechanic of some description to simplify balance concerns

    As for Inquisition...the problem, IMO, isn't the glyph. Its that it is there. Blizzard moved against short duration buffs of this sort for a reason. The mechanic needs to be removed or repurposed.

    EJL

  14. #54
    Stood in the Fire
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    Just remove Inq, give us 15% dmg or some other fair number baseline and retune us slightly so we're on pace with other classes.
    I use "fair" as a relative term as I don't know what percentage of dmg would be good as to not make us overpowered.
    I don't hate holy power, and making it go to 5 makes alot more sense - but Inquisition is just pointless and the fact they have to make a glyph to make it easier to manage should be self evident.

    We don't get inquisition untill level 81. Thats 4 levels below current cap, and 9 below max cap when Pandatime drops. If people don't/can't learn how to use it the right way right away out of the gate it sounds like the ability in itself is flawed or puts unnecessary pressure on someone to keep up a buff. If they want to make a helper glyph for Inquisition then inquisition needs to drop down to a level 15-25 ability so people can learn as they want the whole ride to 85-90. Oh btw if thats the route they do take, I'd like a new lvl 81 skill thats not a hiderance =)

    I wish I had beta access so I could speak to GC, apparently this has been taken to the Blizzard forums where it did incite a response from him but I don't feel the OP conveyed all the feelings and valid points in this thread. If anyone has beta access by all means do something <3 http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/5235704810

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  15. #55
    Warchief Sett's Avatar
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    Oh god, they made it worse?

    I foresee this glyph being changed. Hopefully.
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
    Let's look fabulous~. A Paladin transmogrifier item list.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by fears View Post
    Just remove Inq, give us 15% dmg or some other fair number baseline and retune us slightly so we're on pace with other classes.
    Remove Inq and place the damage in a new buff - Righteous Vengeance. Righteous Vengeance cannot be active at the same time as Righteous Fury.
    Increase skill cap by providing more tools for the class.

    EJL

  17. #57
    Mechagnome ayashi's Avatar
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    This Glyph implementation is ... lacking. The "-%dmg, +%time" is for baddies (or lazy lol). That's how the spell should work base-line, and have an avaliable glyph to INCREASE your overall damage. reasons:
    a) corrently the glyph assumes you are "good enough" to know of the glyph, to know how that would improve your personnal performance and obviously have access to said glyph.
    A: That's a lot of knowledge assumed from baddies. Better assume they do not know anything, and have the "goodies" make take the extra step instead
    b) you use a precious glyph slot to DECREASE your potential.
    B: A glyphe, like anything else character-wise should always be about increased potential. If i have 3 slots a what to use those three to have something extra, not to remove anything.

    (note:btw, same reasoning with glyphs that remove knokback effect from spells. They should be inversed too)
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    the average wow player is only a step above eating glue and a step below doing basic addition. Right about being able to operate scissors fairly properly is the sweet spot.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Remove Inq and place the damage in a new buff - Righteous Vengeance. Righteous Vengeance cannot be active at the same time as Righteous Fury.
    Increase skill cap by providing more tools for the class.

    EJL
    That does in no way shape or form increase skill cap

  19. #59
    What they should do is nerf everything everywhere across the board because you can't figure out if a glyph works for you.

  20. #60
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Glyph of Flame Shock - no initial damage, but increased uptime, same type of tradeoff as the Inquisition glyph
    Glyph of Recklessness - Reduced damage boost, increased uptime.
    Glyph of Dancing Rune Weapon - Reduced damage but increased threat generation


    There's probably more, I by no means did a thorough search, but your claim that no other class makes these kinds of tradeoffs in glyphs is simply not true.
    First off Glyph of Flameshock is not, It's only on the initial application of the flamehshock not the ticks after. So it's not even close it might be if the 15% reduction only lasted for 5 seconds.

    Reckless with a -20% crit chance isn't the same as a flat damage reduction so while close it's not the same now if it said the duration was extended by 100% and the damage was reduced by 30% then it would be the same.

    The last is a tanking glyph so no brainer of course you are exchanging damage for threat on purpose.

    So by no means does anyone give up flat damage increase for the convenience of duration.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-20 at 08:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    Elemental Shaman here.

    Lightning Bolt and Lava Burst, both are VERY high portion of our damage I am sure you won't argue?

    Our convinence gylphs:

    LB - can cast while moving but cast takes 5% longer.
    LvB - can crit without DoT but lose 10% power.

    The quality of life comes with a direct dps lost, which you have to weight up to see if it is worth while, take it if it suits you, and don't if you don't like it. As far as I know most of the gylph out there that gives you a quality of life changes comes with a dps loss to compensate.
    Are you playing on a Private server? Those Glyphs don't even exist.

    Glyph of Unleashed Lightning
    Allows Lightning Bolt to be cast while moving.

    Glyph of Lava Burst
    Your Lava Burst spell deals 10% more damage.

    Glyph of Lightning Bolt
    Increases the damage dealt by Lightning Bolt by 4%.

    All of those are prime glyphs and none are a trade for convenience for damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

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