Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
  1. #101
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    The problem with Inquisition, IMO, is the ability itself. Its a short duration self maintained used on CD buff of a type that is mirrorred by SnD, SR and so on. It is also a type of ability Blizzard ahs stated it wanted to remove because it wasn't seen as a fun or exciting mechanic. Too many people saw such mechanics as extra complexity designed to bring them up where everyone else was, a boost that required the sacrifice of "fun" to bring their performance up to what other classes considered normal.

    Blizzard saw it as a way to introduce complexity in the class rotation, a way to raise the skill cap. Both views are right, in their way. But this is a game. People need to enjoy it. Playing the class shouldn't be a chore and if a mechanic reduces the fun factor of a class for many, then it needs a very good reason to be there.

    There are other ways to increase the skillcap and this alone undermines much of Blizzard intent with the skill. There are other non-DPS finishers that the class can make use of, and that undermines Blizzards other reason to keep Inq around. The question then is do enough people find it "fun" that those complaining about how bad Inq is or feels can be "ignored". I think, at best they tolerate the ability but it simply isn't fun and it doesn't really add much to the class or the rotation.

    The Glyph itself....its poor. No doubt about that. Its a DPS loss...but fiugures can be changed. But if its to be DPS neutral, then the choice becomes increased convenience at the price of a simple Glyph slot. And if it isn't...if its a case of convenience for a DPS loss, then too many people will see it as a sign of noobiness. Players would be far better getting an addon such as CLCRet.

    I can't say I'm excited about this Glyph.

    EJL
    Actually I would like it if both choices, glyph and no glyph, were equal dps. This would mean that you could use the glyph for convenience and you could remove the glyph for fights were burst was needed/useful.
    Spine, Magmaw and Alysrazor are fights in Cataclysm where this burst damage could be useful (because of extra damage taken).
    Of course the glyph and no glyph could also tend to switch in power depending on encounter, uptime and other stuff.
    But this concept would only be possible if: No glyph = glyph in terms of damage on a complete dummy fight.

  2. #102
    The Patient Kanegasi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by ipoststuff View Post
    I dont know what they are thinking. I was expecting a little buff to glyph and they nerf to it to complete uselessness. Reducing the effect 50% and incresing duration 100%. Over 1min they give the same damage output if you inq just once.

    This glyph is now a damage loss at all times even for a bad player who cant keep 30sec inq up.
    It reduces the effect by 15% and increases by 100%.

  3. #103
    Bloodsail Admiral Elovan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In my chair (unless I'm on the floor...)
    Posts
    1,026
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanegasi View Post
    It reduces the effect by 15% and increases by 100%.
    What he means is since the unglyphed version is a 30% increase, it's a 50% reduction in the benefit, from 30% to 15%.

  4. #104
    GC already made a blue post about this:

    This glyph isn't supposed to be a no-brainer for DPS. Hopefully none of the glyphs are.

    At the risk of sounding more patronizing than I intend, a common mistake I see some players make is to look at maximum possible theoretical DPS and assume that is the DPS they can achieve. We have the numbers we think every class can achieve under ideal situations (meaning no movement or distractions, etc.). The best players in the world can deliver on these numbers while executing very complex boss fights. That's a little mind boggling for us, but it's true. Very few players are capable of such feats however.

    For the rest of us, our hope is that it works out like this:

    1) Expert player who foregoes the Glyph of Inquisition, executes Inquisition uptime perfectly, and delivers 99% of max possible DPS.

    2) Intermediate player who sometimes struggles with maintaining Inquisition, takes the glyph, and delivers 75% of max possible DPS.

    3) Player who thinks he is more expert than he is, skips the Glyph of Inquisition because that's what all the cool kids do, finds as a result that he struggles with Inquisition uptime, and delivers 60% of Mac possible DPS.

    Don't take my percentage numbers too seriously, but you get the idea. Many classes have similar glyphs. My advice is to measure your DPS (in an actual encounter or PvP) and see whether you benefit or not. The rotations that works for the best players (of any class) may not work for everyone.


    My opinion? His logic is total bullshit, and excuse my language. Almost all of the glyphs in MoP for all classes are double edged swords. You get something decent and lose something usually more worthwhile, leaving a lot of the glyphs useless. If I've learned one thing from video games, it's that making your players feel like they are being punished for wanting a certain ability to function a certain way is a really terrible concept. The old glyphs were far better. I like the minor glyphs as they are now, but the major glyphs are a total fail on the design team's part. And don't even get me started on the talent trees themselves.

    The BEST possible way to fix this would be:

    Increase the base duration of Inquisition to 60 seconds. This would be flat out and received as soon as you learn Inquisition.

    The glyph could then function as such:

    Glyph of Inquisition: Lowers the duration of Inquisition by 30 seconds, but increases the damage bonus it grants by 5%.

    This way, the idea Blizzard was going for with the glyph could still be in play. People who aren't super comfortable with the 30 second inq rotation could be happy not taking the glyph and missing out on 5% "bonus" damage. People who want the extra damage can choose to take the glyph and have a harder rotation. This way, no one feels like they being nerfed, and those who are slightly "more hardcore" can have a bonus to their dps.

    As I said before, the problem with Blizzard, is they are big on the "punish the player" system, which is completely unsupported by logic. It's all about perspective. Don't make your players feel like they are being punished.
    Last edited by Servasus; 2012-05-29 at 12:46 AM.

  5. #105
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    116
    Quote Originally Posted by Servasus View Post
    The BEST possible way to fix this would be:

    Increase the base duration of Inquisition to 60 seconds. This would be flat out and received as soon as you learn Inquisition.

    The glyph could then function as such:

    Glyph of Inquisition: Lowers the duration of Inquisition by 30 seconds, but increases the damage bonus it grants by 5%.

    This way, the idea Blizzard was going for with the glyph could still be in play. People who aren't super comfortable with the 30 second inq rotation could be happy not taking the glyph and missing out on 5% "bonus" damage. People who want the extra damage can choose to take the glyph and have a harder rotation. This way, no one feels like they being nerfed, and those who are slightly "more hardcore" can have a bonus to their dps.

    As I said before, the problem with Blizzard, is they are big on the "punish the player" system, which is completely unsupported by logic. It's all about perspective. Don't make your players feel like they are being punished.
    The problem with it this way, is that the gylph once again becomes 'Mandatory' for players, and anyone not capable of maintaining it at the 30sec level will be marked as unworthy and a bad player, just like they are now. Blizzard want to move away from the current "This is required, or you must have this" model, and the more hardcore players getting a bonus on this, is exactly something like that.
    What blizzard want from this glyph, and what they are going to get, is never going to be the same thing. They want something that will make things a convenience for some players, and will be over looked by the rest, but what they are gonna get is a situation where it's never going to be just right, because the ones the Blizzard expect to over look this glyph, are going to be asking "Why isn't this done so it's good for all?". So you just end up with what we have here, where people are saying that the glyph is poor, and that it should do this, or have x and y effect instead.

    The simplest way to make this all go away is to remove the glyph completely, and just either give us something else to fill the gap, or they just admit they have no real way of making Inquisition 'fun'.
    Last edited by Jakerel; 2012-05-29 at 08:15 PM. Reason: added a few extra comments

    Nothing ventured, nothing gained

  6. #106
    Why not have glyphs do something a bit more drastic than say tweak numbers, but rather change how they function?

    Diablo 3 did this pretty well with character's skills, but I had a thought to make inquisition change from being a passive % boost to damage to being a damage skill of its own?

  7. #107
    The Lightbringer Requital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    But-hurt much? Appears so!
    Posts
    3,880
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    To summarize:
    I'll give you that halving the damage bonus is probably too much, but numbers can change again. However, the concept of the glyph is sound.
    We've said what we will and I'll let you have your opinion on it, I don't agree with it and I don't agree the Glyph idea is even sound. But I'll agree to disagree and we'll see how much use this glyph gets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    Can you imagine if someone insulted you in a thread, you reported it, and I told you "sorry, wrong thread to be butthurt"?

  8. #108
    Why not keep glyph as 15% reduction but be applied and reapplied by TV?
    Welcome to New Blizzard where everything ages backwards, dead servers are left gasping for breath, homogenization is disguised as uniqueness, leveling mirrors the progression of travel in the last 150 years, and gold is just a nuisance.

  9. #109
    I wonder if we will be able to ignore inq during mop o_O

  10. #110
    Increase the base duration of Inquisition to 60 seconds. This would be flat out and received as soon as you learn Inquisition.

    i have no understanding why i refuse to do this ... judgement of the wise should be 30 seconds and inq should be a 1 min buff ... come on what paladin spec doesnt judge pretty much on cd

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Divineknight13 View Post
    Increase the base duration of Inquisition to 60 seconds. This would be flat out and received as soon as you learn Inquisition.

    i have no understanding why i refuse to do this ... judgement of the wise should be 30 seconds and inq should be a 1 min buff ... come on what paladin spec doesnt judge pretty much on cd
    Holy Paladin.

  12. #112
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    551
    Quote Originally Posted by STUpitittie View Post
    I wonder if we will be able to ignore inq during mop o_O
    Not going to happen unless they change our mastery and make templar's verdict hit for like waaaaaaaaay more than it already does.

  13. #113
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    350
    I wish it was just like horn of winter, and if it being a 3m buff (4 glyphed) is too op, then halve it to 1.5m(2m glyphed) even 45s(1m glyphed) would be fine. If we're going to be focused around inquisition forever I hope they improve it or at least give us a talent like Rogue's Cut to the Chase where we can keep it up via abilities.

    Armory : Fear@Cho'Gall UI Screen : Elv UI Wow Progress : Vindictive
    Cpu : Intel I7-2600k Mem : 16gb Corsair Vengeance Psu : Corsair HX1050 Gfx : EVGA GTX 770

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •