DKs vs Ret Pallys?

[Leopraecordia]

I play an unholy DK with 5266 resil (seems a bit overkill?) and I just never got competitive enough in PvP in Cataclysm like I did in the previous expansions. I am having a lot of trouble dueling Ret Pallys. Often I'm able to burst them down pretty quick, but they fear-spam the heck out of my ghoul/abomination repetitively, HoF, and then Divine Shield to heal all the way back up... how are we supposed to beat them? I have tried kiting, keeping desecrate up as much as possible, preserving my AMS for after Divine Shield wears off, using my ghoul stun and strangulate one after another, but they just continue to catch up with me and turn the tide of a match from me being at 80% and him at 20% to the total opposite. Now I'm not saying it's impossible and that I've done it perfectly, but what are your suggestions? I have found the best strategy is to take the offensive initiative from the get-go but it doesn't help me quite enough. Are DPS DKs just doomed for dueling in Cataclysm?

*Edit - I am spamming necrotic strike as often as I can.

[bot v2.38beta]

I didn't see Necro in there...

O and pray they don't get many Divine Purpose procs.

Edit:

BTW: My UH arena partner (we're 2k) gets me 50% of times we duel. Just keep practicing.

[Leopraecordia]

I didn't see Necro in there...

O and pray they don't get many Divine Purpose procs.

Yeah I left out the necrotic strikes, should have mentioned it but I assumed it was self-explanatory. That is spammed probably more than anything. Since my ghoul gets feared continuously, wasting my death coils on empowering him is kind of irrelevant, right?

[Deleted]

Last time i checked pvp wasnt balanced at all ..
oops i mean balanced around 1V1 ofc (did i ?)

anyway
from personal experience (have full cata dk en full cata ret myself)
I think a dk can only beat a ret 1V1 is the dk has more skillz ...
if its +- equal thn its kinda gg, with the right spec the ret will outheal you
while killing you.

but if you think thats bad,
try duelling a decent rogue

locks can also post this thread about duelling dks ...

nvm 1V1 mate, play 3s

[Senathor]

I play an unholy DK with 5266 resil (seems a bit overkill?) and I just never got competitive enough in PvP in Cataclysm like I did in the previous expansions. I am having a lot of trouble dueling Ret Pallys. Often I'm able to burst them down pretty quick, but they fear-spam the heck out of my ghoul/abomination repetitively, HoF, and then Divine Shield to heal all the way back up... how are we supposed to beat them? I have tried kiting, keeping desecrate up as much as possible, preserving my AMS for after Divine Shield wears off, using my ghoul stun and strangulate one after another, but they just continue to catch up with me and turn the tide of a match from me being at 80% and him at 20% to the total opposite. Now I'm not saying it's impossible and that I've done it perfectly, but what are your suggestions? I have found the best strategy is to take the offensive initiative from the get-go but it doesn't help me quite enough. Are DPS DKs just doomed for dueling in Cataclysm?

*Edit - I am spamming necrotic strike as often as I can.

Retribution Paladins are superior in duels due to their undead fears and Word of Glory healing being really high, especially when they've got their CD's up. In fact, I'm currently beating most T2 rogues but I have yet to actually beat a T2 Paladin. They're much harder in duels.

When I attempt to kill them I spam Necrotic Strikes to absorb as much of their first Word of Glory heal as I possibly can. Depending on the Paladin's health I might use Strangulate and/or Gnaw to prevent them from healing. I save my Shell to combine it with Lichborne to heal full HP. If I'm lucky enough at this stage the Paladin will bubble and then I don't have any major CD's left so it's GG.

Oh and if we're doomed in duels? Well, as you probably already know we're certainly not among the best classes this expansion. But I mean we're still fine in duels, I win a lot of them, just not against Paladins.

Btw you shouldn't gem and enchant Resilience. Even for an RBG tank Resilience is useless past 4,9.

[Leopraecordia]

I appreciate all your feedback. So good to get away from the normal forum trolls on the WoW forums. You're right about 1 vs 1 being unbalanced and I think it always has been, but not to the extent of as of late. Hell, 2 vs 2 is pretty bad as well... but that's another story.

Retribution Paladins are superior in duels due to their undead fears and Word of Glory healing being really high, especially when they've got their CD's up. In fact, I'm currently beating most T2 rogues but I have yet to actually beat a T2 Paladin. They're much harder in duels.

When I attempt to kill them I spam Necrotic Strikes to absorb as much of their first Word of Glory heal as I possibly can. Depending on the Paladin's health I might use Strangulate and/or Gnaw to prevent them from healing. I save my Shell to combine it with Lichborne to heal full HP. If I'm lucky enough at this stage the Paladin will bubble and then I don't have any major CD's left so it's GG.

Oh and if we're doomed in duels? Well, as you probably already know we're certainly not among the best classes this expansion. But I mean we're still fine in duels, I win a lot of them, just not against Paladins.

Btw you shouldn't gem and enchant Resilience. Even for an RBG tank Resilience is useless past 4,9.

And when you've casted Lichborne, you can get feared away yourself too then, right? It's nuts. And I looked at all the highest rated 2 vs 2 DKs the other night and I did notice no one was past 4.9k resil as well. You just set it in stone for me, much appreciated man.

[Deleted]

Unholy dks can actually beat ret palas really easily, just do a dps rotation with necro in it, poping cds early on and saving AMZ and AMS for his wings.

Also you should try to strang him when you lichborne heal so that you dont get feared and stun him on sacred shield so he cant get a huge heal off.

[Vereesa]

Unholy dks can actually beat ret palas really easily, just do a dps rotation with necro in it, poping cds early on and saving AMZ and AMS for his wings.

Also you should try to strang him when you lichborne heal so that you dont get feared and stun him on sacred shield so he cant get a huge heal off.

I'd advise using AMS really early on and saving AMZ for their Wings. You should last until a second AMS, which you should utilize to supercharge your RP for full health through Lichborne.

[count dante]

I cant help much as I am not a good UH player, but even as F, I have to be a bit patient sometimes. I am thinking that is what UH would need to do, more so because UH takes much longer to ramp up. The AMS early with AMZ for wings is good advice. Once the wings is survived, at least in my experience, Ret Pally is not hard to handle anymore.

[Deleted]

Palas are pretty much a DKs counter. So it is close to impossible to beat him if he knows what he's doing. (2,3k uh here)

[Kharli]

uhm.. from a Ret paladins perspective.. i got stomped by UH, mostly cause i can't do anything when AMS/AMZ is up since ALL my attacks are Magical..(Yes Holy Magic v.v)
so yeh but i see where your coming from.
mind you i rarely play PvP so it might have to do with that.

[Deleted]

Unholy dks can actually beat ret palas really easily, just do a dps rotation with necro in it, poping cds early on and saving AMZ and AMS for his wings.

Also you should try to strang him when you lichborne heal so that you dont get feared and stun him on sacred shield so he cant get a huge heal off.

He's gonna trinket the strang, and you're not gonna break sacred shield during pet stun, its on 60k+. you'd best have AMS during his cd's at the same time as you need to heal, and strang him + petstun when he needs to heal to force that trinket.

[bandet]

I would think necrotic strike would be counter-productive.

The damage you do with another attack, in this case scourge strike, would do more damage than the necrotic strike would end up absorbing, yes?

Either that or eat up opportunities to death strike.

[Baphomette]

The damage you do with another attack, in this case scourge strike, would do more damage than the necrotic strike would end up absorbing, yes?

If that were true, NS would be absolutely worthless. Why would you ever use an ability that did less damage up front AND less damage total?

[Deleted]

I would think necrotic strike would be counter-productive.

The damage you do with another attack, in this case scourge strike, would do more damage than the necrotic strike would end up absorbing, yes?

Either that or eat up opportunities to death strike.

Your the reason people think we are noobs ;(

Use necro to stack up any WoG heals... if he doesn't burn all his CD's at the start he will most likely pop them after bubble, use DS then get wings and burn him down again.

Try and save LB aslong as u can this will save ur life big time with a AMS

[Bsod]

you expect to win as a dk in 1on1 against skilled/geared classes?
ret pala is maybe not the worst enemy for us but still he should always win
i have a low ret pala(honor gear) and im beating all dks ive seen so far
if you get his wings you have a good chance but that would mean he isnt skilled

[Vereesa]

I would think necrotic strike would be counter-productive.

The damage you do with another attack, in this case scourge strike, would do more damage than the necrotic strike would end up absorbing, yes?

Either that or eat up opportunities to death strike.

Necrotic Strike does far more "damage" than Scourge Strike.

The only case where Scourge Strike would theoretically be superior is when Attack Power and weapon damage are disproportionate, in this case in weapon damage's favor.

I would, however, not advise blindly spamming Necrotic Strike to high heavens, because you run the risk of the Pally simply bubbling off your 100k+ (or however much you've managed to accumulate) stack. I generally keep NS at about 30-40k and Scourge Strike the rest of the time.

[arksun]

ret pally ftw