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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Green13 View Post
    Generally I agree with you,but you miss one point regarding paying to save time : on many MMOs,time is a matter of win or lose.Especially on MMOs,time spent defines what you're gonna do in that game.You can be the best player in the world,you'll never earn a world's 1st in WoW's PvE if you play 1 hour per day.I admit,few years ago,time was way more important than it is now,but it is still a basic requirement.
    Sure, but that is not different than the same time/money dichotomy.

    Someone, somewhere is capable of out spending you in time or money. Some players capable of both.

    To the end player experience, it's merely a matter of which you have in excess.

    I'd accept and even applaude if needed,a F2P game that is based on selling vanity or items of minor importance.Life i did with LoL.
    Yea,i leveled without a boost,i have my 3 pages full and even a few runes to swap,many many heroes bought,without spending a thing.I never felt dis-advantaged to skinned characters (usually it was the opposite :P).I did all this with a group of mates,none of us ever felt we lost a game cause of not enough runes.
    That is still a matter of time. You spent a lot of time gaining all that stuff without spending a cent in LOL. Which you can also gain in Runes of Magic [a game I am v. familiar with] via time. Albeit, on a more grueling scale of grind than LOL.

    League of Legends being inherently competitive game whereas MMOs are expressly not by design or intent.

    Time or money. That is all the argument ever comes down to regardless of how or when it is raised on countless forums.

    The trend to F2P will continue unabated as the model is more inclusive to gamers and profitable to publishers.

  2. #22
    The only reason I ever want to see a F2P model is to remove the whole idea in subscription games that they are entitled to see/do/earn the same things I am because they pay the same monthly, regardless of hours put in. Reward should be purely about hours put in.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Reward should be purely about hours put in.
    I'd prefer it if reward was based on skill & ability, not how often we log in or pay up. Just my own POV on that aspect of gaming.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I'd prefer it if reward was based on skill & ability, not how often we log in or pay up. Just my own POV on that aspect of gaming.
    Obviously those should play a role too, but I think that dumbing down content and making everything ridiculously accessible so that people who play one hour a week can participate in everything or catch up in a week after missing x number of months is absurd and limits what those who really want to invest in an MMO can do in some ways. But then I suppose we're always going to fall foul of the amount of content that can be pushed out, sooo... who knows.

  5. #25
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    What AAA/AA F2P game has an unfair cash shop? I haven't seen a quality cash shop that surpasses WoWs cash shop ridiculous price for anything. Not typing anything long here, I've done it in similar topics but F2P allows you to design your own experience instead of paying for features you'll never use. When I first started WoW many years ago it took me months to get to 60 because I was a casual player. The time I spent getting to 60 cast me 15/mth, which is justified Blizzard by there promise to add new things to the game. Problem was that in these months I spent in vanilla I didn't get to see anything my sub money was paying for. AQ, Naxx, PVP, whatever I don't remember. When I did get to 60 it was TBC time, well damn now everything I paid for is not obsolete.

    Fast forward to Wraith where I was in a progression guild. Same 15/mth. The problem this time was clearing content way to fast and spending 15/mth to run the same content over and over and over or pay 15/mth to level alts aka 15/mth to play content you already cleared. This is what made me loathe WoW and never play it again. What many P2P games do is stagger there content releases around when the most people have to resub to see the content. You end up paying $45-60 for the equivalency of $5-15 DLC in a singleplayer game. Fast forward again to Rift and its now apparent that Blizzard should be releasing content A LOT faster with the ridiculously larger budget they have compared to Trion. Other companies milk subs even more than Blizzard.

    Give me all the F2P games where I can choose to play when I want, not feeling like I have to play to get my money's worth. Where I can unlock content when I am ready. Where I only pay for what is important to me and not Joe the Plumber. Learn to control your spending habits and F2P games can come out a lot cheaper than P2P games. And if it does come out more expensive its because you were willing to pay more for something that brings you enjoyment.

    ---------- Post added 2012-05-20 at 07:43 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarien View Post
    Obviously those should play a role too, but I think that dumbing down content and making everything ridiculously accessible so that people who play one hour a week can participate in everything or catch up in a week after missing x number of months is absurd and limits what those who really want to invest in an MMO can do in some ways. But then I suppose we're always going to fall foul of the amount of content that can be pushed out, sooo... who knows.
    GW2 breaks this.

    Grinds are bad. One of the worst things in old school raiding was having to grind resistance gear because the only thing stopping you from killing a boss was the x amount of hours you didn't spending grinds something ridiculous. Removing useless grinds has nothing to with dumbing down content. The difficulty is still there, the busy work is gone though.

  6. #26
    Brewmaster Newbryn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    I'd prefer it if reward was based on skill & ability, not how often we log in or pay up. Just my own POV on that aspect of gaming.
    I could not agree with you more than I do now.

  7. #27
    I don't think I'll ever play any subscription model game again. Except WoW, of course, when MoP is released. I prefer the F2P model where you pay only for the content you want. Yes, I might end up paying more than what a monthly fee would be, but that's irrelevant. Being able to play at any time without worrying about fees is more important.

  8. #28
    I hate "free to play". It's ruining the industry imo.

    Free to play, in 90% of cases means, Free to try. These games are not designed to give you an engaging, long term and fun gaming environment. They're designed to make money. Offering free to try removes the entry barrier to (let's be honest) kids that can't con their parents into buying a $60 game, but every other day can con them into "it's only $2.99 mom!!!".

    Everything in Free to try games revolves around the cash shop. A lot of development time and money is spent on creating things for the cash shop that do nothing to enhance/fix/change/add to the game play at all, either leaving the games half finished, broken, unbalanced or buggy as hell, and it's gullible consumers that allowed it to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zillionhz View Post
    By fiber be purged

  9. #29
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    I'd prefer to play a game with a good, well thought out f2p model, over a subscription method.

    I'd only really find paying a monthly fee justifiable if content was coming out of my ears. Such as Rift. I find myself feeling heavily ripped off when WoW, charges a subscription fee, but then doesn't offer a more restricted, but free version of real transfers. Name changes etc.

    But then, a game with a bad F2P model can ruin a game completely.

    TL;DR Bad f2p models are ruining many games.

  10. #30
    Pit Lord Protoman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lagwin View Post
    Being unemployed atm free to play games have been a good source of entertainment but the p2w ones suck balls i'll list the ones that i would consider totaly free(no advantage given to paying customers)

    ATM Path of Exile

    Drakensang, browser mmo...the paid currency drops from monsters occasionally giving you the chance to farm it.
    Both diablo style games and both pretty fun. PoE is prob more of a f2p game. Drakensang is actually pretty good for a browser game, but when I last played it the p2w aspect crept up after like 10 lvls.....you have to pay for these resources that charge up some of your regular abilities and also pay for scrolls if you want to identify rare or epic loots.



    Oh yea, and I forgot to add that yea I think cash shops in games are kinda dumb and have ruined alot of games or just make them feel pointless after a while since what you take time to get someone can buy and like dominate AH or easy leveling and stuff.

    Only good free games are just totally free, or pay a small onetime fee like some steam stuff. I'd even be happy with a free demo that gives you full content but only part of the game.....like if Diablo 3 had a demo with only first difficutly avialable that would be sick.
    Last edited by Protoman; 2012-05-21 at 02:12 AM.

  11. #31
    Mechagnome Window's Avatar
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    How did you get Drakensang to load ?? lol
    If everything I do is wrong then by god ill do it right

  12. #32
    Immortal Clockwork Pinkie's Avatar
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    Not at all, it's the F2P models with a cash shop that can buy gear that ruins many f2p games.

  13. #33
    Legendary! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naidia View Post
    Not at all, it's the F2P models with a cash shop that can buy gear that ruins many f2p games.
    Exactly. Nexon games tend to be the worst offenders of this. They turned MapleStory into a P2W abomination.
    Enstraynomic - League of Legends
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    Exactly. Nexon games tend to be the worst offenders of this. They turned MapleStory into a P2W abomination.
    True, but they've done a MUCH better job with the cash shop in Vindictus.

  15. #35
    Dragon Nest is pretty excellent too. Love that game-- played the hell out of it.

  16. #36
    I think F2P has been an important step in the popularisation of MMO gaming lots of people are cheapskates , but it's also reducing development budgets and creating a lot of copycat games, diluting overall quality. It's definitely not the case for every game, but typically, you get what you pay for something...

  17. #37
    Scarab Lord Hraklea's Avatar
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    Before I start I would like to say this doesnt apply to all f2p games. For example I think League of legends handles f2p very well, you are never at a disadvantage (perhaps a little versatility right at the start but that is all) yet spending money is tempting enough to support the game.
    League of Legends is an example as good as we could want of how free to play competitive games are problematic. It is kinda curious that you realize free to play models have problems, but support League of Legends.

    League of Legends is ridiculously expensive if you buy all champions with cash, and ridiculously unbalanced if you'll try to get everything with IP. If you do both, RP and IP, then you have an expensive and unbalanced game. Not something I would support...

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hraklea View Post
    League of Legends is ridiculously expensive if you buy all champions with cash, and ridiculously unbalanced if you'll try to get everything with IP. If you do both, RP and IP, then you have an expensive and unbalanced game. Not something I would support...
    How is it unbalanced? Champion balance is relatively good (save for when new champs are released and they're OP), and getting enough IP to pick up either a few champs of your chosen role (ranged carry, tank, support ect.) or a few for each role doesn't take too long. You don't NEED to own a ton of champions to do well, only a few. And considering you can only buy IP/XP boosts, skins and champions with money I don't see any issues. All runes are bought only with IP, so you need to invest the time.

  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Pancaspe's Avatar
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    I will not play a F2P game, I hate the model. The only thing that would make me quit a Sub Game I like is if it converted to F2P.
    @Ghostcrawler:Some advice: [My pet issue] is why there were sub losses is one of the weaker arguments players use. Players don't have that data.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    I will not play a F2P game, I hate the model.
    Any particular reason why? Just curious.

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