LFR Vote-to-kick Madness

[Sykol]

A whole different reason why LFR is for the birds when going for upgrades. Cunning of the Cruel going to enhancement shamans. Wrath of Unchaining going to elemental shamans. Gurthalk going to protection paladins. Souldrinker going to a ret paladin. etc. etc.

Sometimes you'll wish you'd been kicked so you don't have to witness this.

Yeah, a terribad arcane mage that came in for Madness after we kicked other fails ending up pulling a whopping 8k and snagged both the staff and dagger. I wish I'd have been able to vote kick myself, in retrospect.

[Grym]

fresh 372 is usually 14k dps, specially if it's their first class to 85. And 14k dps is pretty acceptable. And it will land you bottom place of the recount.

First, ignore the "first class to 85".

Back in T11, you are expected to do 15k dps at Cho'Gall, in 359 at best gear, average ilvl would be lower as you wouldn't have all the 359 pieces yet. So a ilvl 372 doing 14k dps IS rather bad.

Then add back the second point of "first class to 85", OK so you can let that slip a bit, but still 14k dps IS still bad even for freshly 1st timer ilvl 372, especially it si someone that supposedly have been "trying hard" and "learning fast".

[JuicedawgYO]

So my step-son dinged 85 on his rogue a few days ago. We were both pretty stoked because he's been watching me play and raid and all that fun stuff. We spent a few days gearing him up... finally got him to ilvl required to Q for LFR. Some pieces of PvP gear, but fully enchanted and gemmed. The kid is still learning how to play his toon, but he's cerebral as hell and really getting into the fine points (much faster than I did).

So we Q'd up for the first 4. We cleared it. No problems. Was he at the top of the DPS charts? No... but he was learning the fights and trying for some upgrades.

We Q'd for the last 4, finished through Spine with no issues...
Then a couple healers and dps leave the group. The tank pulls DW anyway. 2 healers and 2 dps short, we wipe on the final platform.

Certain people in the group see that my step-son's rogue is at the bottom of the recount meter... they call him "useless" in raid chat, and of course he is VTK'd shortly after.

The kid didn't say anything to anybody. He wasn't AFK. He was trying his ass off. He wasn't even close to being the cause of the only wipe the group suffered, but people needed someone to blame. You should have seen the baffled look on his face.. and mine. I did NOT think he deserved the kick, and was quite upset about it. And I'm usually very good about letting videogame drama roll off my back.

Isn't LFR made for noobs to get a look at some easymodes of Dragon Soul? Maybe get some gear upgrades to improve your dps? I would love to hear interested minds weigh in.

That's unfortunatly how it goes in lfr atm. However, it is mostly the bad players who somehow have "something to prove" in lfr, who acts like douchebags (even though they are usually nothing special themselfs).
I get flamed and kicked sometimes in lfr aswell, even though I got full bis hc gear on my character. Some people are just too bored (cuz bad and mad ) with the game that they appaerently need to be A-holes to others while playing.
And for the dps in there, as soon as your son gets just a little experience (on how to abuse certain mechanics in the encounters in there and positioning and stuff) and some gear, his dps will go up fast and people will not act like dicks to him mostly, hopefully. Sucks that it is like that though... The internet sucks >.> zzzzzzz

[Deleted]

First, ignore the "first class to 85".

Back in T11, you are expected to do 15k dps at Cho'Gall, in 359 at best gear, average ilvl would be lower as you wouldn't have all the 359 pieces yet. So a ilvl 372 doing 14k dps IS rather bad.

Then add back the second point of "first class to 85", OK so you can let that slip a bit, but still 14k dps IS still bad even for freshly 1st timer ilvl 372, especially it si someone that supposedly have been "trying hard" and "learning fast".

Back in T11, to even get close to Cho'Gall, you had to be a raider. You had to be, not a competent player, but a great player surrounded by great players. One such player could deal 12k dps at 346, 20k at 359, 35k at 372.

In comparison with that, yes, 14k dps at 372 is rather bad. It is also irrelevant.

That's not the kind of players that LFR is aimed to. LFR is aimed at players who can't or won't find a spot in a raiding guild. LFR can be completed with an average dps of 16k per dpser, which is a very low dps requirement respect to what a raider can perform.

[Deleted]

That's not the kind of players that LFR is aimed to. LFR is aimed at players who can't or won't find a spot in a raiding guild. LFR can be completed with an average dps of 16k per dpser, which is a very low dps requirement respect to what a raider can perform.

You realize it's not just all about dps right? If you have 6 healers that do similar low hps compared to dps for whatever reason, then those dps requirements go up by quite a bit. Ultrax needs just under 17k for hard enrage per person (counting 2 tanks as 1 dps) but I can assure you if healers do similarly bad then you're not gonna last long into the last minute putting dps at 20k or so required on average. No way you'll make it to 2nd phase madness either for example, 4th platform gonna kill you for sure.
You can't just count "minimum required dps" and count it up to "minimum required hps" if the latter requires a lot more input/gear/skill imo. Especially not when the minimum required dps would turn the minimum required hps into quite a hell in more than 1 encounter.

[tigojones]

Im sorry for you, but if somebody is kicked on madness because of recount, it means he is just too bad for this encounter. It stands out. And after a wipe people try to do anything to prevent it from happening once again. Removing a bad dps and hoping for a good one is an option.

And just from my point of view: don't ever. join. LFR. in incomplete pve gear. Have patience to farm a few more hcs or something. Having pvp gear on does show that you don't know your class yet (people see he dung a few days ago and does not have enough items for pve). And after having sufficient pve gear, stay on dummy for a couple of minutes to test your rotation.

Bunch of crap. Ran LFR on my hunter for the first time with a few pieces of blue BOE pvp stuff, a couple epic pvp pieces and some epics from 5-mans/points (and I'm using the strength bow from the Hour Of Twilight dungeon quest line). Wasn't top of the charts but did a lot better than several full-epic pve gear. Sometimes the upgrade just doesn't drop, and you need to stick with a sub-par piece of gear. Believe me, even the blue PVP gear is better than a green 308 quest reward. Yeah, it's got resilience, but it will have a hell of a lot more of your primary stat which should more than make up for it. Knowing the fights and knowing your class can count for a lot more than having the right gear but being completely clueless on what buttons to hit.


As far as removing bad dps for a good one being an option, in some cases, yes. When you have a wipe due to starting short a few players, and still manage to get to the last platform, there are other options to take first. Yeah, he might not have been performing all that well, but if the raid was full, those players would've made enough of a difference to get the kill, and then no one would really have cared. Simply waiting for the raid to fill would have been the smart thing to do. However, I think that someone pulled it early so they wouldn't risk getting kicked (since you can't kick in combat). That's happened to me several times.

[Cedimedi]

Well thats why i won't go LFR/LFD anymore.

LFR = Looking for retar*s

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

I find it ridiculous that people get the choice to kick people, i mean your guaranteed to get some idiots that will look for even the smallest reason to rage and boot people from the group, its one of the reason i barely play WoW anymore just because of 90% of the players being awful people with terrible attitudes and not giving anyone a chance to learn.

Chance to learn?

How often and what degree should people have to spend their time and gold on repairs so people can learn and be given a chance?

Before you step into LFR, you have 85 levels to figure out how to play, plus gearing up your character to reach the ilevel needed to enter.

There is also in game help available to new players such as the tips given as to what are the best stats for your character, in addition there are training dummies for dps, and also Dungeon Journals.

Not to mention the enormous amount of data available on the web such as min/max guides for your class and spec, videos of the encounter, and raid add-ons available like DBM.

You can also join a guild that is set up for new players so you can spend your own time figuring out how to play with other people who are in the same category.

People who know how to play, or at least enough to down the bosses in LFR shouldn't have to teach, coach, and train every new person that comes in.

I play Warcraft for my own reasons, and one of them isn't to be a "raid-tutor" to new players.

[Deleted]

Theres an vague line between being a noob who wants to see some easy mode dungeons and being carried through the raid. Yes LFR is for the newbies and gearing up etc but I don't sympathise with you here sorry. If you get kicked from a group for doing minimal heals or minimal damage its your own fault, there is a baseline of damage that you should be doing with ilvl 372 (i think) gear, even if some if it is pvp gear.

As you may have noticed or will begin to notice that people will just about only be kicked if a, there is a wipe, this gets everyone a little on edge, its super annoying it just takes up more time when really it shouldnt, or b, someone is afk or just plain bad.

It sucks but nobody wants to carry someone who isn't their friend along so it's just what happens, basically if there is a possibility i could get someone better than the person who is doing 25k dps on madness i will vote to kick them because they are doing something wrong with that dps at that ilvl on a fight like madness, however ill only do that if we wipe or they are afk or just plain bad

I have to agree with this. I think it's cool that your stepson tried his best and wasn't just afk and yes, LFR is about learning and seeing content. But it's not there for you to learn the basics of your class mind you, you had 85 levels to do that and the time it took you to grind dungeons and get the gear. So if you still haven't learned to play your class at a decent level, then yes, people will kick you from LFR the second they get the chance - regardless if it was his fault that you wiped or not.

And about not letting people vote to kick in LFR at all - seriously just no. The amount of retards who only queue to troll or grief is amazing and so is the amount of baddies who stand in fire and die, just to need roll and win. And when you make LFR reward 500 VP in total, that's a really easy way to cap VP on an alt. And therefore you get the "elitists" who don't want to carry people new to the game or to their class. They just want to get in and get out as fast as possible and if you can't carry your weight, be it cause you cheated with your ilvl, are new to the game or your class or if you're just plain bad, I will vote to kick in a heart beat sorry.

[FloridaElement]

If someone is getting the mechanics, not being an A-hole and visibly trying . There is no reason to kick them. Its not a Heroic DS pug run, but like someone had said above me the people in LFR think they are the best thing in the world because they've killed the LFR version of DS. Just explain to him while he isn't an idiot or bad at what he does, most people in LFR are not so lucky. Good luck on the loot rolls! also having the correct gems and enchants/reforging but just a low item level is an immediate sign , to me at least, that the person being inspected knows his class but just dinged recently.

[ipaq]

If someone is getting the mechanics, not being an A-hole and visibly trying . There is no reason to kick them. Its not a Heroic DS pug run, but like someone had said above me the people in LFR think they are the best thing in the world because they've killed the LFR version of DS. Just explain to him while he isn't an idiot or bad at what he does, most people in LFR are not so lucky. Good luck on the loot rolls! also having the correct gems and enchants/reforging but just a low item level is an immediate sign , to me at least, that the person being inspected knows his class but just dinged recently.

Oh well...

I'm running 7 out of 10 alts thru RF every week.

And I'm having a ball with the window lickers in there.

Its simple... They can VK you, you'll be gone, but they'll be left alone being dbags for the rest of their lives =D

PS: A cute thing to do if they VK you (and you know they are short healers/tanks) is to re-queue asap as a Healer/Tank on an alt =D Man they go ballistic =D

[volescue]

They might as well have ganged up on him, pushed him down, and stole his bicycle.

If he feels that strongly about it, he shouldn't be playing a game like this. It sucks and isn't right, but it happens and there isn't really a good way to fix it.

[Deleted]

You realize it's not just all about dps right?

That was exactly my point. Remember how the OP said there were 2 missing healers.

[Ryve]

I hate to break it to you, but you're playing a game with a group of random people over the internet. To you, your son might have been doing "well", but to them he was obviously performing poorly.

Given the training dummies sit there all day, not doing a lot with themselves, it's not hard to take the time to learn your rotation so that you aren't going to get kicked for being the lowest DPS in a group with most of the players being bad at DPS...

[jbombard]

I think the best advice is to tell your son not to take it personally and keep on trying.

When there is a wipe, regardless of the reason, people are going to start looking at the meters. People who are low heals/dps will get kicked. He can do HoT heroics to get better gear(and is probably a better place for it), but honestly if it was just before weekly reset I would run LFR too even if I was barely eligible. First time in is a bit overwhelming with all the stuff going on, he will probably do a little better once he gets used to it. Honestly though they probably saved him from an hour long madness wipeathon, better to get out of those groups anyway.

[Deleted]

funiest thing is that overall dps on Madness is not important at all, it's all the 'elite' players that totally ignore the blisterings on the 4th platform that causes the wipes in LFR each and every damn time and in this case with 2 missing healers , that is what without a doubt caused the wipe ....
next time , dps them and link the blistering dps and vote to kick the slackers on that ^^

[jbombard]

funiest thing is that overall dps on Madness is not important at all, it's all the 'elite' players that totally ignore the blisterings on the 4th platform that causes the wipes in LFR each and every damn time and in this case with 2 missing healers , that is what without a doubt caused the wipe ....
next time , dps them and link the blistering dps and vote to kick the slackers on that ^^

If everyone dies before deathwing finishes casting, then generally failing to single target blisters.
If everyone dies because deathwing finishes casting and everyone was alive before he finished then it's definitely DPS.
If everyone dies because deathwing finishes casting but several people were dead when starting on that platform then it is likely a combination of things from not DPSing the shard, not killing the bloods, not singletargeting the blistering tents, poor healing, poor tanking and/or low DPS.

But yes more often than not it is stupid people not targeting blistering tentacles.

[Deleted]

If everyone dies before deathwing finishes casting, then generally failing to single target blisters.
If everyone dies because deathwing finishes casting and everyone was alive before he finished then it's definitely DPS.
If everyone dies because deathwing finishes casting but several people were dead when starting on that platform then it is likely a combination of things from not DPSing the shard, not killing the bloods, not singletargeting the blistering tents, poor healing, poor tanking and/or low DPS.

But yes more often than not it is stupid people not targeting blistering tentacles.

Tbh , I run lfr on 4 toons and I have never seen that deadwing managed to finish cataclysm in lfr even with the worst dps possible , it's allways the blisterings on platform 4 , occasionally i wiped due to the tanks falling down bug/shit healers letting them die during impale/shit tanks that never heared of aggro but never due to too low dps.

[Hoddie]

LFR might be made for noobs, but it does nonetheless have some very basic DPS requirements. I read that you got through Spine with no issues, but Spine rarely has any issues unless the entire raid is dumb enough to make DW roll. Madness however is a bit of a step-up however, and even on LFR, people need to actually put some effort in.

Too ridiculous for words. LFR is intended for those who are learning their class and gearing up. This means those people may not have an optimal talent spread, the right rotation, etc. I dragged a mage through LFR the other week with only 5 hours /played at 85, and the comments I saw directed at my DPS was just bloody silly. Someone on Spine who had 40k DPS telling the group the reason we wiped on that boss was because a few of us were doing ~15k DPS. I feared being kicked until someone else in the group pointed out that the fight was all about control not numbers, and that usually the highest DPS are the ones to blame for a wipe. The guy was kicked and 3-4 of his mates left, and we killed it easily with 4-5 empty spots.

LFR is sadly not a very nice place to be. It's full of people who think they're "God's Gift" to raiding when actually those people probably spend most of their time farming level 80 titles so they can at least pretend to be half decent. The only time they get to top the meters is in LFR and they think it gives them the right to judge everyone else.

[jbombard]

Tbh , I run lfr on 4 toons and I have never seen that deadwing managed to finish cataclysm in lfr even with the worst dps possible , it's allways the blisterings on platform 4 , occasionally i wiped due to the tanks falling down bug/shit healers letting them die during impale/shit tanks that never heared of aggro but never due to too low dps.

Well, all I can say is I have maybe twice. But yes it is very rare. But regardless when there is a wipe, regardless of what caused people will go straight to the meters.