Cooldown idea for MOP (Working with shrooms)

[Thorim]

Glyph of Wild Mushrooms Bloom; When your Wild Mushrooms are triggered, you spawn a Fungal Growth at its wake covering the area within 8 yards reducing all damage taken by 15% but they no longer heal nearby allies - 3 minute CD

You could probably even change it to 10%, keep it less than barrier, am etc, but obviously you have the utility of being able to place 3 patches.

You could choose to keep the regular healy shrooms for certain fights, or put the glyph in and increasing the cd by a lot, but giving an okay cooldown, plus, Druids are getting some really nice glyphs come MOP so choosing it you WOULD have to give something up.

I just thought it would be a cool idea.

[Deleted]

I like this idea with a few additions:
1. The Fungal Growth should have a different animation than the one spawned by every boomkin's mushrooms
2. The effect should stack if more than one patch is in the same place
3. The X% should be changed considering the possibility to stack the effect to keep it in line with other CDs
4. The effect should stack with only your own mushrooms and the greater absorb should be chosen if more than a druid placed the shrooms in the same place. (if a druid places 3 and another places 2 then the 30% effect is chosen)
5. the cooldown should be proportional to the number of shrooms detonated 1 shroom = 1 min 2 = 2 min 3 = 3 min

[Keiyra]

Although yes it is a cool idea - healers are balanced around having 1 raid type 3 min CD, of which for druids is Tranquility. If they were to add another one through a glyph like this (even a rather anemic one at 10%) it would throw off the balance between the healers and they'd either have to nerf tranq, nerf druid output, or buff the other healers in some measure.

That's far too much work for rather little gain. So yeah its a cool idea, but not gonna happen. A better idea would be to glyph tranquility - it no long heals but places a sacred meadow/grove on the ground - all players within take 25% reduced damage or some such.

That way you aren't gaining an extra raid CD, just exchanging one that heals for one that reduces damage...but even then I doubt blizz would want to push further into homogenizing the healers.

[Thorim]

Although yes it is a cool idea - healers are balanced around having 1 raid type 3 min CD, of which for druids is Tranquility. If they were to add another one through a glyph like this (even a rather anemic one at 10%) it would throw off the balance between the healers and they'd either have to nerf tranq, nerf druid output, or buff the other healers in some measure.

That's far too much work for rather little gain. So yeah its a cool idea, but not gonna happen. A better idea would be to glyph tranquility - it no long heals but places a sacred meadow/grove on the ground - all players within take 25% reduced damage or some such.

That way you aren't gaining an extra raid CD, just exchanging one that heals for one that reduces damage...but even then I doubt blizz would want to push further into homogenizing the healers.

I wouldn't say they are balanced around having one 3 min CD each particularly, even maxing tranq usage, throughput of a Resto druid is only about on-par with the other healers, and they have their 3 min CDs on TOP of that throughput, as well as any other utility they may have.

Your tranq glyph is a pretty cool idea though actually.

[Deleted]

Although yes it is a cool idea - healers are balanced around having 1 raid type 3 min CD

Discipline Priests have both Barrier and Divine Hym

[Keiyra]

Discipline Priests have both Barrier and Divine Hym

1) Disc Hmyn is not a 3 min cd, its 8 mins. (which is precisely why i worded my post that way )

2) Disc Preist Hymn is the only outlier of the bunch as a legacy hold over. If i recall correctly, casting it is actually a HPS loss compared to PoH Spam during the duration of the channel, so its mostly a HPM gain and the buff gain for other healers and themselves after the channel - though i admit that may be from when it was only hitting 3 targets at a time and not its current incarnation; been a while since i ran the numbers. Regardless its pretty clear Barrier is disc's "raid CD".

3) My point still stands that healers are balanced with their whole kit in mind, ADDING another raid CD as the OP suggested would require either subtracting something from druids (output, longevity, whatever) or buffing the other healers to keep the 6 specs more or less balanced, which while doable is a lot more numbers work for blizzard. - Or the new CD would have to be so weak as to have a very small effect on overall performance (10% is pretty close to that weak point btw)

Now a glyph that turned the shroom heal into say an shroom absorb could certainly be useful.
Glyph of Resilliant Shrooms, Wild mushroom: Bloom now places an absorb for 90% of the heal on each target within range instead of healing them directly. This absorb lasts for 10 secs.

That kind of glyph doesn't shift overall balance but gives you some options for when absorbs would help more than heals (say popping them just before barrage on blackthorn or something) - or my example above for a tranq glyph. Either would give options without just adding more raw power.

[Thorim]

1) Disc Hmyn is not a 3 min cd, its 8 mins. (which is precisely why i worded my post that way )

2) Disc Preist Hymn is the only outlier of the bunch as a legacy hold over. If i recall correctly, casting it is actually a HPS loss compared to PoH Spam during the duration of the channel, so its mostly a HPM gain and the buff gain for other healers and themselves after the channel - though i admit that may be from when it was only hitting 3 targets at a time and not its current incarnation; been a while since i ran the numbers. Regardless its pretty clear Barrier is disc's "raid CD".

3) My point still stands that healers are balanced with their whole kit in mind, ADDING another raid CD as the OP suggested would require either subtracting something from druids (output, longevity, whatever) or buffing the other healers to keep the 6 specs more or less balanced, which while doable is a lot more numbers work for blizzard. - Or the new CD would have to be so weak as to have a very small effect on overall performance (10% is pretty close to that weak point btw)

Now a glyph that turned the shroom heal into say an shroom absorb could certainly be useful.
Glyph of Resilliant Shrooms, Wild mushroom: Bloom now places an absorb for 90% of the heal on each target within range instead of healing them directly. This absorb lasts for 10 secs.

That kind of glyph doesn't shift overall balance but gives you some options for when absorbs would help more than heals (say popping them just before barrage on blackthorn or something) - or my example above for a tranq glyph. Either would give options without just adding more raw power.

My original point was, things aren't balanced.

Raw throughput wise, the other healers are on par, and in a lot of cases pushing more, and that includes the healing from us using out Tranq, it isn't taking into account Barrier, AM, Totem, Sac etc being used, if these could be converted to 'healing' we would be massively behind.

Our throughput wouldn't need to be decreased to compensate, because a damage reduction wouldn't add to our healing done. A druid does 10 million heals, including tranq, a Disc priest also does 10 million heals, but then ON TOP OF THAT also has the damage reduced on top of that by using Barrier. Turning Tranq into a damage reduction would remove say, 1.5 million heals from that 10 million example, so there, we are dong 8.5million, the Disc priest is doing 10 million PLUS HIS barrier on top.............

Although I'm not against an absorb idea for Druid =D

[Keiyra]

My original point was, things aren't balanced.

Raw throughput wise, the other healers are on par, and in a lot of cases pushing more, and that includes the healing from us using out Tranq, it isn't taking into account Barrier, AM, Totem, Sac etc being used, if these could be converted to 'healing' we would be massively behind.

Our throughput wouldn't need to be decreased to compensate, because a damage reduction wouldn't add to our healing done. A druid does 10 million heals, including tranq, a Disc priest also does 10 million heals, but then ON TOP OF THAT also has the damage reduced on top of that by using Barrier. Turning Tranq into a damage reduction would remove say, 1.5 million heals from that 10 million example, so there, we are dong 8.5million, the Disc priest is doing 10 million PLUS HIS barrier on top.............

Although I'm not against an absorb idea for Druid =D

And do you have any non-anecdotal evidence of this? Because looking at raidbots compilation from world of logs across all parses - which only tracks healing and not damage reductions, druid output is within the top 3 with holy priests and holy paladins. http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...fault/#1u00000

In fact on every setting, 25h, 25n, 10h, 10n, druids are out healing your example of disc priests, by anywhere from 4.6%-11.7%

Now its true that this tier has some healing gimick fights (like ultraxion) - but if you look at fights without healing bonuses or that don't strongly favor a gimmick like beacon on Yorsaj - fights like Hagara and Blackthorn, you'll see that the trend more or less matches the overall performance.

If anything you could say Holy pallys are overpowered in that they have the highest output most of the time, in addition to having AM and Hand of Sanc which do not show on the meters/logs; but to say that we are "massively behind" if you counted the DR effects doesn't hold up. We are ahead of those specs...with the exception of H Pallys but this was their tier to be OP apparently.

[Thorim]

And do you have any non-anecdotal evidence of this? Because looking at raidbots compilation from world of logs across all parses - which only tracks healing and not damage reductions, druid output is within the top 3 with holy priests and holy paladins. http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...fault/#1u00000

In fact on every setting, 25h, 25n, 10h, 10n, druids are out healing your example of disc priests, by anywhere from 4.6%-11.7%

Now its true that this tier has some healing gimick fights (like ultraxion) - but if you look at fights without healing bonuses or that don't strongly favor a gimmick like beacon on Yorsaj - fights like Hagara and Blackthorn, you'll see that the trend more or less matches the overall performance.

If anything you could say Holy pallys are overpowered in that they have the highest output most of the time, in addition to having AM and Hand of Sanc which do not show on the meters/logs; but to say that we are "massively behind" if you counted the DR effects doesn't hold up. We are ahead of those specs...with the exception of H Pallys but this was their tier to be OP apparently.

Well, looking at Madness as an example, top 50 there are 3 resto druids. What I was trying to say though, was that for Resto to be appealing, their throughput has to not just be on par with Holy Paladins/Holy Priests like Raidbots shows, but to SURPASS them.

Saying 'It's ok because were in the top 3 healing with palys and priests' proves my point, Resto is doing the same amount of healing as the other healers, but then on top of that, they have other things. Warmaster has 5 druids in the top 50. Blackhorn we are around the same throughput as Holy Priests, way below Holy Paladins and only about 1-2k hps above Disc. I would say that Barrier/pain sup/the fact that Disc is shielding and not healing UP the roar damage massively outweighs our few k HPS increase. Perhaps its just me, but i don't think it is, as you saw from DS progression, Resto was far and away the least liked healer to take, even for fights like hagara and warmaster.

[Keiyra]

You can't look at the just top 50 as those fights have the potential to be heavily skewed one way or the other (who knows what gimmicks they went through to rank - standing in fire, etc, whatever).

As to where we should be, is on par with holy priests, not surpass them - because like us they don't have major DR abilities (inspiration is minor at best) - and i'm not saying that the class balance is perfect, there's always room for improvement. But I don't think its bad enough to justify another raid CD tacked onto the class, unless its rather weak.

If there were less restos taken earlier in progression, it's likely in part because we did not benefit from raid design as much as other healers (stacking helps the other aoe heals a lot more than it does for efflo/WG) One of our major benefits, mobile healing was also far less useful this tier (compared to how good it was in tier 12) as was spread out healing. Lets see how raid design works out for MoP before we jump the gun and say we need a 2nd raid CD to be on par.

Holly pallies were just godly this tier with HR and the primarily stacked raid design. They are the true outlier out of the bunch, since with AM and HoS one would think shouldn't be out healing holy priests or resto druids of equal skill/gear on fights that don't give them a gimmick or bonus above that of others, but alas, balance is a work in progress and they got to be OP this tier.