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  1. #21
    They've never innovated much. They make polished versions of concepts that work. D3 and SC2 both work.

  2. #22
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    See but their is a certain degree of innovation. It's a marginal thing clearly but I feel d3 was even more marginal than usual.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Vinney View Post
    What did you expect D3 and SC2 to be? They are sequels to a mass popular game. Its like complaining that Halo 2 is just like Halo 1 but with updates. Thats all that sequels are. Its a winning formula, why change it?
    Halo 2 was the most horrible game ive ever played in term of s sequel it was also the worst. It kill the entire franchise for me and have never picked up another game since thats what the company delivers now. The first Halo still remains one of the best games ive ever played. Your statement is a fallacy because not EVERYONE liked the second game. Just like not everyone likes the concept of MoP just like not everyone likes how short D3 is. Blizz can showcase some of the most beautiful CGI movies ive ever seen but wow is still an unpolished turd catered to the masses so those who play on moms computer can still play without problems.
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  4. #24
    Blizzard has a very specific way of doing things. If you don't like it, it's fine. But there's a horde of people who do and thus they keep doing it.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    They've never innovated much. They make polished versions of concepts that work. D3 and SC2 both work.
    That's what innovation is, improving on something established. That's what Blizzard has always done, until recently where they basically just copy their own games again in worse ways (SC2, while much better than D3, is just as guilty. You could say Cata brings no new innovation)

    Diablo series was an innovation because it took action in RPGs to a whole new level, WoW innovated the MMORPG formula made by games like EQ. Their early RTS games improved upon the earlier RTS games like Dune 2, etc.

    It just doesn't seem to work as well when they take their own games and try to improve them
    Last edited by hailey; 2012-05-21 at 05:01 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by hailey View Post
    That's what innovation is
    No, that's what high levels of polish and great development are. Innovation is creating NEW concepts, new mechanics, new THINGS.

  7. #27
    Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are accepted by markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a new idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by hailey View Post
    Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are accepted by markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a new idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.
    Interesting distinction. Never heard it referenced like that before, I'll have to think about that one. Question is do we see "invention" in gaming then?

  9. #29
    Blizzard didn't invent anything in SC2 and D3 because that will change the game. Sure, they can add a certain new features but they have to stay true to genre. For Blizzard to invent, they need to make a whole new game (lore/engine/concepts/play style/etc). They cannot invent in their already existing titles. It won't work. They can only innovate in their existing titles. Sure, they can invent a few things in WoW, but WoW has a specific engine design and they have to work within the limits of that engine.

    TITAN looks to be a new invention. Or maybe it's not. Maybe it's just an innovation of an already existing game. But will it be enjoyable? If yes, it's a success and they don't need to invent anything new.

    If it works, why change it? Is the real question here. New inventions don't always guarantee success and don't mean they will be enjoyed by the player base or enjoyed in the long term. If the "old" genre has some innovations that improve the genre and makes it more successful, they will do it. It is far more safe and will bring in success even if some of the innovations are not enjoyed by everyone. D3 now being ORPG is a good example, you can play with friends or solo, but you have to be online, some like, some don't.

    Inventions happen when someone have a brilliant idea or the existing model has become extremely outdated, does not sell and is no longer feasible. You can say that the entire gaming market is lacking invention not just Blizzard. There are hardly any new concepts besides just a couple innovations in few games. There is no new game types being invented. The entire market is stagnant. But it's working. So why try to change it?
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Stop playing single player so much and play with friends, the games become much more enjoyable.
    It's still as archaic, rigid and stale as ever, it's just that you lose focus on how antiquated the gameplay, systems and mechanics of the game are when you're talking about gossip in school or at work over Ventrilo.

    I stopped playing WoW shortly after the release of Cataclysm, simply because I was growing sick and tired of the same old gear treadmill, where you grind dungeons/battlegrounds -> grind raids/arenas -> rinse and repeat, forever...

    It shouldn't come as a shock to anyone that Blizzard has grown tired and complacent with regards to WoW, as a result of a severe lack of competition and a monopolistic hold over the market. The MMO-Market at the moment is like being forced to choose between AIDS and terminal cancer; either way, you're screwed, so, naturally, most players stick to the least toxic and dangerous condition out there, which is WoW.

  11. #31
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  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by hailey View Post
    Innovation is the creation of better or more effective products, processes, services, technologies, or ideas that are accepted by markets, governments, and society. Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a new idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.
    I think you are mixing innovation with evolution. Blizzard have always played it safe in that way. They take a working concept and heap polish on it untill it sparkles. Thats why they make such successful games.
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  13. #33


    proof there is innervation in a blizzard game.

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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tru View Post
    Halo 2 was the most horrible game ive ever played in term of s sequel it was also the worst. It kill the entire franchise for me and have never picked up another game since thats what the company delivers now. The first Halo still remains one of the best games ive ever played. Your statement is a fallacy because not EVERYONE liked the second game. Just like not everyone likes the concept of MoP just like not everyone likes how short D3 is. Blizz can showcase some of the most beautiful CGI movies ive ever seen but wow is still an unpolished turd catered to the masses so those who play on moms computer can still play without problems.
    D2 without LoD was just as short, so I must admit that I find people claiming that D3 is too short a notch silly really.
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  15. #35
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    If they changed SC2 or D3 too much from the original lots of people would leave because it no longer feels right, not part of the series.

    If they do it as they did (smaller and 'quality of life' changes, no big overhauling) others will leave because it feels the same.

    You can't win.


  16. #36
    Wait until you see what Titan is before you talk about lack of innovation
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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiada View Post
    They've never innovated much. They make polished versions of concepts that work. D3 and SC2 both work.
    Wrong. Since there's two innovation threads and this is more Blizzard related that my OP in the other thread was about, I'll just copy paste it here too. No reason to write the same with different wording twice!

    ---

    Ah, Blizzad innovation. Discussion I've always loved. I really feel like that they've dropped the ball of this game long ago as a company that shows the way (as they used to) to a company that takes from others and improves over it.

    Now don't take me wrong, the very basic Blizzard doctrine has always been, take from something and improve upon it. But in the past improving upon something in Blizzard's terms meant expanding to a territory that wasn't there yet, while nowdays it's more about just making that what exists "better". Better being in ""'s because it is relative to one's viewpoint. To bring examples

    Warcraft I, the first RTS game to bring a robust unit based skill system that could change the tide of battle if used right for the populace (And ability to select more than 1 unit at the time if I remember right, Dune lacked this feature)

    Warcraft 2, the first RTS that let you drag over the units with mouse to select multiple units at once, also including improvements to their previous system of unit abilities and controllability of them

    Diablo, originally intended as roguelike turn based item hunting game but at later stages developed into a an action hack'n'slash that would create entire genre of new games that to the date still spreads further

    Starcraft/Brood Wars, the first RTS to really introduce heavily tied in narrative to a RTS games with well developed world shared along 3 faction that went through a progressive story one by one

    Warcraft 3, the final stage of Warcraft "evolution" of unit abilities with controllable heroes being able to level up and improve skills on the way (Did you know Warcraft 3 was originally planned to be an RPG?)

    World of Warcraft, the first MMO to introduce huge open world MMO without loading screen (Yah yah, continental differences), downplayed by EQ devs saying it was impossible for hardware demands, yet pulling it off. Also the pioneers of the modern instancing system we have in every MMO. It was really in it's child's steps at the time WoW was released. Some of the MMO's of the time tried to copy it while WoW was in beta due to their immense succees.

    And now?

    Starcraft 2 that plays exactly like SC, but with a bit more variation to the single player missions and new units
    WoW expansions, adding new content but hardly anything new and innovative in the terms of gaming scene that wouldn't been done before, just iterating
    Diablo 3, the same hack'n'slash as before with remade skill trees that has yet to show that they can sustain the game for as long as Diablo 2's replayability through leveling for different specs did.

    From my point of view, it looks really grim and for last 8 or so years, Blizzard has done nothing more but trying to play it sure to keep sales, instead of pushing things forward that really gave them the reputation they have and what us who grew with Blizzard games have known to learn to expect from them. Sad times from my PoV.

    (And for personal opinion remark, can't even start to comprehend how low their storytelling capabilities has gone with all these retcons, saturday morning cartoon enemies and Indiana Jones spoofs)
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  18. #38
    What companys need to stop doing is trying to Innovate new things and look on past success and emulate it.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Warcraft 2, the first RTS that let you drag over the units with mouse to select multiple units at once, also including improvements to their previous system of unit abilities and controllability of them
    I think you will find it was Westwood's Command and Conquer that allowed you to do multiple unit selection by dragging the mouse and it was released 31st August 1995, Warcraft 2 was released December 9 1995.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by wynnyelle View Post
    What exactly did you expect out of Diablo 3? The game certainly isn't a reskinned D2, but the core mechanics are more or less the same. But, if Blizzard were to change those, then it wouldn't really be Diablo, would it?
    This one. It has to feel like Diablo to be Daiblo. It has to be Starcraft to be Starcraft. Blizzard could do awful, repetitive Multiplayer Online FPS games until the end of time, but that wouldn't be Blizzard. Their games are unique and pull you in to something different than just the game itself. The universe of that game.

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