1. #1

    People complaining about JC competition

    Not sure why we get all this whining about JC? It is still by far the most profitable profession out there. Demand is always lower at the end of an expansion.

    People seem to be annoyed because there might be competition and they get undercut. As long as it remains highly lucrative, then ofc you will be undercut. What people are saying is they get to use all the addons and shuffle more so all their items sell to the exclusion of others.

    Because there is an unlimited supply of cheap ore from bots, then the game can support unlimited shufflers who only need a few recipes to simply shuffle red gems.

    Blizzard might think about:

    1. Getting rid of bots and more careful regulation of large ore sellers. Would mean people were required to actually go and mine stuff or that ore which appeared on the ah was done by a gatherer and not some automated program.

    2. Putting a bigger deposit down on the ah for sales i.e 20% of listed price, which would then discourage constant relisting, although there are ways round this.

    3. Rebalancing gem desirability so reds were not so dominant and other colours so useless.

    4. More recipes as the cut from 80 to 40 was too easy street and previousy there was much more variety in trying to sell different cuts.

    Unfortunately selling stuff on the ah is dull and even duller now with all the undercutting addons. It is simply a war of attrition.

  2. #2
    High Overlord Sillvir's Avatar
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    Just people venting about the shuffle losing its touch since its the end of the x-pac.

    Nothing needs to really be fixed except banning botters.

    If you add more recipes it will not matter. There are always going to be those select maybe 10 that will be necessary and the rest will be useless because that stat is useless.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sillvir View Post
    Just people venting about the shuffle losing its touch since its the end of the x-pac.

    Nothing needs to really be fixed except banning botters.

    If you add more recipes it will not matter. There are always going to be those select maybe 10 that will be necessary and the rest will be useless because that stat is useless.
    I agree with you, bots are the only real problem. This applies to all bots, not just gathering ones. When people are forced to actually farm their own ore/herbs/skins or find other real people who do it for them there will be less competition as supply won't be through the roof like it is now. And for those of us who actually enjoyed farming at some point, maybe we will go back to it if we don't have to try to fight automated programs who hack terrain, move underground, and are able to gather 24/7. I haven't farmed in at least a year due to the prevalence of bots in pretty much every zone, especially current content. And I really loved farming back in the day.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanotech View Post
    I agree with you, bots are the only real problem. This applies to all bots, not just gathering ones. When people are forced to actually farm their own ore/herbs/skins or find other real people who do it for them there will be less competition as supply won't be through the roof like it is now. And for those of us who actually enjoyed farming at some point, maybe we will go back to it if we don't have to try to fight automated programs who hack terrain, move underground, and are able to gather 24/7. I haven't farmed in at least a year due to the prevalence of bots in pretty much every zone, especially current content. And I really loved farming back in the day.
    Really bots are going to risk getting banned by hacking terrain and moving underground? I know a few bots and none of them do anything like that, it's counterproductive. The bot needs to appear like an actual farmer.

    As for the banning bots sure nothing against that, but get ready for double or triple the price for gems, enchants and other materials that all come from the ore shuffle. I'm not saying everyone should use bots or even saying they're great, but you can't deny they keep prices down.

  5. #5
    While bots are a huge problem, having 1 red gem worth more than 2 of all other colors COMBINED, is silly. Spreading out the primary stats to yellow and blue would be a very welcome change.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    While bots are a huge problem, having 1 red gem worth more than 2 of all other colors COMBINED, is silly. Spreading out the primary stats to yellow and blue would be a very welcome change.
    People can shuffle all they like as far as I care if they have farmed or someone else has genuinely farmed the mats themselves. That's where a big proportion of the profit ought to be. I agree that the overpowering nature of red gems leaves it all pretty unbalanced, because the real scorched earth people sell the reds and dump the other colours, which in turn destroys all those markets.

    AH trade is nowhere near as much fun as it used to be, which is a shame. It used to be cool farming rare recipes or finding a niche, but now its simply the daily.

    I do hope they have a look at it to make it more challenging, but I fear it will continue to be dumbed down. JC is a gift to make easy money undercutting or not, but I am saying the AH is a bit dull and has moved backwards in the eight years since its launch.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Glordif View Post
    Really bots are going to risk getting banned by hacking terrain and moving underground? I know a few bots and none of them do anything like that, it's counterproductive. The bot needs to appear like an actual farmer.

    As for the banning bots sure nothing against that, but get ready for double or triple the price for gems, enchants and other materials that all come from the ore shuffle. I'm not saying everyone should use bots or even saying they're great, but you can't deny they keep prices down.
    You've never seen terrain hacking bots? Really? I couldn't count how many of those I've run into during my years of playing WoW, especially in Wrath/Cata. It is not counterproductive, if it was they wouldn't do it.

    And I'm okay with mats being more expensive, it is normal that if you put in the time to farm you want a return on it. Right now having a gathering profession is not lucrative at all because mats are dirt cheap. It makes no sense to go out and gather any more if you want to make gold, I make all of my gold from buying mats at rock bottom prices and reselling crafted goods but believe it or not some of us ENJOYed farming when it was honest competition for nodes with real people. They need to ban bots to make gathering lucrative again.

  8. #8
    It's a dog eat world and unless willing to constantly check and re-list your auctions, don't expect to make nearly as much gold as the other guy. I probably check my auctions at least fifty times a day plus selling off my phone to increase sales. By doubling my re-listing efforts, I was able to nearly double my sales. I don't have to spend a lot of time either because I live WoW running and just check every half hour while I'm home.

  9. #9
    JC is fine...though anything can be improved.

    IMO pt #3 is the best. Primary stats should either be shuffled to not just reds or improve the socket bonuses to encourage the usage of hybrid gems. I'd prefer the latter.
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  10. #10
    I wish some of you gathers would come to my server, ore have been priced crazy high for months now, 50-100g a stack for elementium Where are the botters?

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire
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    Here is the major problem with looking at WoW as an economic game.. Realms and the AH are not economies of scale.. the AH game and accumulating gold is a player choice not an integral part of game mechanics.. so the issue ends up being it is always and the end of a tier/season/patch/xpac diminishing returns.. the next shiny purps come along.. new recipes, epic patterns/gems, next ilvl in BoE drops and BoE VP and then everyone has them and the market dries up.. financial planners tell you all about accumulating wealth and diversifying assets in that accumulation process but the very best have you plan on decumulation... meaning once you hit 500K gold now what.. Black MArket AH?? Maybe but what makes BoTing the choice of the lazy and the hackers is that wealth is never removed from the economy so Blizzard needs to develop a system that removes wealth without altering game balance..and without the diminishing returns of gear/crafting coming with the end of tiers and xpacs..
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by shokter View Post
    JC is fine...though anything can be improved.

    IMO pt #3 is the best. Primary stats should either be shuffled to not just reds or improve the socket bonuses to encourage the usage of hybrid gems. I'd prefer the latter.
    That idea + bots will crash the JC market due to oversupply.

    Not only that, but when bots leave the market for some time, then you end up with dramatic fluxuating prices when people are undercutting expensive prices and the rich are buying up low prices and reselling for 6x.

    It sounds like a great idea, but it devalues red gems so much that JC'ers wont make a profit from turning around ores unless a botter comes around.


    To kind of better describe this:

    More ore supply = More gem supply

    When all gems are equal value, there's A LOT of them posted in hope of profiting. Also bots will have a static price for ore because gems are equally profitable, so theres no incentive to sell low. You just sell Low/Avg Gem price minus 10 to 20% then divide that by 4 for prospecting and JC's will buy it up like crazy.

    Then comes the undercutting fiasco by everyone.

    Rich buys all low and resells extremely high.

    Do you want to ride that rollercoaster? Imagine the market being worse than it is now because theres no RNG on valuables in a profession. Everything is good.

    Also, how come other professions dont always get a valuable result from other gathering professions.

    It mostly just equalizes the rollercoaster for an even more controlled and unfair market across all colors.
    Last edited by Eein; 2012-05-23 at 10:13 PM.

  13. #13
    If bots are removed the gatherers moved in and at least people know some player has genuinely put some effort into gathering mats. The idea that you need bots is ridiculous.

    Eein you misunderstand abiut stat distrivution amongst gems. Reds are too powerful meaning most of the other gems irrespective of socket bonus can be ignored. In ICC there were twice as many recipes along with blue gems being okish for stamina and yellow for hit as well as purple and orange having a few useful cuts. Nobody said gems should be equal. You just invented that.

    WOW did manage without bots before.

    Back to the point though, its not about end of expansion or falling sales as they are just a predictable consequence. It is about the fact that ah is just a war of attrition now requiring very little thought and hence less fun.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Daedelus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 999tigger View Post
    3. Rebalancing gem desirability so reds were not so dominant and other colours so useless.
    This would be a good start. Also, how often do you get gear these days that don't have red sockets? Just about every spellcaster item is just red sockets (same with warrior strength gear) so getting the socket bonus is a no-brainer. Back in TBC they would mix the colours up so you had to choose whether to just stack red gems and miss out on the socket bonus or get the socket bonus and use different colour gems (e.g. orange)

    tl;dr There is no decision making to be made when socketing gear these days - using red gems gives you the socket bonus 95% of the time.

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