Interesting Observation

[Merendel]

In order for people to stay long term there needs to be some kind of long term progression. As you can see in games like WoW, at the end of an xpack when there are no more carrots to be had, relationships alone are not enough to keep people coming back, with no more progression populations slowly dwindle until you have a ghost town.

The real question is though is that a symptom of the end of progression or a symptom of the rest of the game just not being compelling enough to hold interest at max level without that progression? At the end of an expansion cycle there's very little in wow left to do for a fully progressed character and most of those have probably been farmed to death over the previous year. By the time the last patch of the cycle roles around there are many who only log on just for the raids because they are bored silly of everything else thats even remotely challenging. With downscaleing more of the content stays relevant so it should in theory take much longer to run all the available content till the thought of running it again makes you want to puke. we also dont know what the GW2 expansion cycle will be. If they match pace with GW1's till they stoped expanding were looking at expansions at least twice as fast as wow. only time well tell how it works out.

---------- Post added 2012-05-24 at 11:19 PM ----------

Bit of the opposite and anecdotal as I only heard about it but... Druid named Cat with a guild name like "somehuntername's pet" hanging out with a hunter(no pet summoned) in BGs, people ignoring "pet" as they get reamed from behind. Not sure how much truth in the story but I laughed when I heard it.

there was a team on my server that actualy did that. Not the cat name because it was taken but the druid pulled that stunt with the guild tag.

[jbombard]

The real question is though is that a symptom of the end of progression or a symptom of the rest of the game just not being compelling enough to hold interest at max level without that progression? At the end of an expansion cycle there's very little in wow left to do for a fully progressed character and most of those have probably been farmed to death over the previous year. By the time the last patch of the cycle roles around there are many who only log on just for the raids because they are bored silly of everything else thats even remotely challenging. With downscaleing more of the content stays relevant so it should in theory take much longer to run all the available content till the thought of running it again makes you want to puke. we also dont know what the GW2 expansion cycle will be. If they match pace with GW1's till they stoped expanding were looking at expansions at least twice as fast as wow. only time well tell how it works out.

---------- Post added 2012-05-24 at 11:19 PM ----------



there was a team on my server that actualy did that. Not the cat name because it was taken but the druid pulled that stunt with the guild tag.

I think it is a pretty interesting question really. I honestly think even with an awesome community with out some kind of sense of progress coming back isn't super compelling and you will see some people leave. People generally keep coming back for 2 reasons, 1) they are attached to the character(progression based), or they are attached to their friends(community based). Also I think they are somewhat interdependent. What I mean that is progression alone won't keep everyone there, but without progression many players leave frequently and that can have a negative effect on the community as well. Looking forward to playing either way though.

[Merendel]

Its probably my own experience talking here but I lean more to the lack of anything to do side. I stayed with wow through cata because of the comunity and the bunch of friends I raided with. when the raid left for TOR I had nothing left to tie me to wow. Outside of the raids I felt there was nothing to do dispite the fact that there was still content horde side I'd never played through. Couldnt bring myself to level another alt to go see it and even if I did the chance of anything chalangeing me was nill. Couldnt bring myself to run any more heroics I'd farmed them too much, dailys likewise. Basicly what content I could do was either trivial and boring or had already been forced on me through constent need to grind to keep up that none of it was fun anymore.

I honestly think if Anet can strike a balance in keeping content fun as well as releasing new content often enough they wont nessicaraly need the progression draw to keep people engaged. I dont mind repeating content every once in a while. Its when you get to the point of queuing for the same pack of dungeons every day, week after week, month after month because you'll fall behind if you dont that repeating content moves from a fun deversion to "Shoot me now"

[brickerz]

Was in the middle of a discussion of video games in general and I heard an interesting comment on the whole "Carrot on a stick.", subtly aimed at Guild Wars 2

The comment was: "Any game without a definitive end is essentially a carrot on a stick."

Thoughts? I tended to disagree, but the statement could be true depending on what the "carrot" is.

Wow, what an incredibly useful and exciting observation that's never been said before about an MMORPG! Has your friend considered running for president? I mean, if he can casually observe such an in-depth concept in one of the most complicated forums of intellectual challenge then I would like to have him as president. I'm just saying, those observations? Gold. Not even gold. Platinum encrusted with diamonds, alexandrite, and the sperm of John Lennon and Jesus Christ.

The mere suggestion you find this new or revolutionary makes me want to vomit up a kitten and throw it into a fire.

Please be respectful of other posters. Infracted. -Edge

[Galahan89]

I like a definitive end to story in an mmo, but I like to have endless gameplay.

[Merendel]

I like a definitive end to story in an mmo, but I like to have endless gameplay.

So sort of like skyrim? you can complete the main quest, credits roll and then you are left with an infinite sandbox and any repeatable quests or sidequests you didnt finish? I guess it works to look at it that way but thats prety much any MMO for you. you reach the end of the story/content but you can keep doing whatever you like till they add more.

[Toroc]

A carrot on a stick is essentially a goal which can never be reached.



It is used incorrectly so much. Having an incentive or some form of progression is not a carrot on a stick.

Pretty much this.

MMO games aren't the games you played on your playstations or else they wouldn't even attempt to have a subscription fee. MMOs are perfect for this because there are so many obstacles in the way of the goal your trying to reach that by the time you think you've reached something, boom, that old goal doesn't mean as nearly as much as the new one. Also how the company funnels your money into their pockets.

GW2 is not a carrot on a stick game imo. I doubt it will have an expac and without an expac, there is only so much you can do which is why the don't charge a sub fee because think about it, would you really want to play for something thats been the same since you got it?

[Fencers]

GW2 will likely have many expansion packs. Just as the first game.





Cancelled 4th: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Utopia

[Merendel]

GW2 will likely have many expansion packs. Just as the first game.

Cancelled 4th: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_Utopia

Technically utopia was the canceled 3rd campaign. It was in development when they decided to shift focus to GW2 so they ended up reuseing some of the work already done to create EOTN. Still thats nitpicking and I agree there is a high probability of full blown expansions in GW2's future.

[DrakeWurrum]

I doubt it will have an expac and without an expac

It will definitely have expansions. It's been said they plan to release one approximately once a year. Remember: Diablo 2 and Starcraft 1 had expansions, and Starcraft 2 will have an expansion this year (and there should be a second one beyond that for the Protoss). Subscription fees are not a prerequisite for expansions.

[MKing]

My carrot on the stick will be acheived the second i enter the game, having fun playing with my friends.

[iCandy]

The carrot on the stick never gets eaten, that way you stay hungry. If you put a definitive end to an MMO then it begins to get boring. I dont want to have the feeling of completion in an MMO. A good MMO should never feel like it has been completed.

This x10000000000000000000000000000000000000

I stopped playing D3 halfway through the Nightmare setting because it was essentially just me hitting things over and over and getting minimal upgrades and gold..*twirls finger*

The same thing goes for an MMO. If I beat the game, every dungeon, quest and raid then why the hell would I log back in? I want there to always be a new place to explore, a new boss to defeat or a new dungeon to conquer. Can GW2 supply all of this? Maybe, if content is released at the right time.