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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Nirawen View Post
    I know what Roguelike games are, I was pointing out that the term has more than one meaning. Think 'Stealthlike mechanics' rather than the genre of games.
    Stealth like =/= roguelike in any form or definition. Something that is a rogue doesn't even need to be stealthy at all (Han Solo as example was extremely rogueish but sure as hell not stealthy as a person)

    When you toss around definitions of things around you should pay attention to what the general view of the said is at the very least is, instead of what you think.

    I could just as easily go and say that "World of Warcraft is real time strategy."

    Why?

    "Because there are real time strategy elements in the Uldum zone during the non-derpy questlines!"

    Tip for new players: With most steps its better to go crouched (x) and walk (shift)
    Double click on shift and it turns the run setup to what usual FPS games are like. As in you walk and when pressing shift you run.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  2. #22
    That's a pretty significant derail. It has similarities to roguelikes. Calling something a "game that is like a game that is like rogue" would be redundant so I said roguelike. It's entirely justified pointing similarities to roguelikes in the perma death, generally unforgiving nature, having to constantly find food/items that ensure your survival, etc. I'm sorry it upsets you so much but it's a little on the autistic side to be ranting so much or trying to give people history lessons about the use of a term as nebulous as "roguelike" to begin with.
    Last edited by hailey; 2012-05-28 at 01:55 PM.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by hailey View Post
    That's a pretty significant derail. It has similarities to roguelikes. Calling something a "game that is like a game that is like rogue" would be redundant so I said roguelike. It's entirely justified pointing similarities to roguelikes in the perma death, generally unforgiving nature, having to constantly find food/items that ensure your survival, etc.
    But you miss the very basic point which is survival =/= roguelike

    You don't seek food and shit in roguelike because of "survival", the game does not depend on them. If you play smart you never need to find things like food or water for survival. You use them like potions in battle situation for most parts, or regen of HP after. That alone is a silly "defense" here. As for items, it works as RPG with stat based measurements. DayZ does not do that to any extent. (Unless you suddenly claim that every single RPG is roguelike because you use items to come better)

    Also there are plenty of games with perma death that has nothing to do with roguelikes. While perma death is one of the defining elements of roguelike, it still has tens of more elements in it to be called such.

    I'm sorry it upsets you so much but it's a little on the autistic side to be ranting so much or trying to give people history lessons about the use of a term as nebulous as "roguelike" to begin with.
    It is not. The entire term "roguelike" spawned to represent the genre of games that are like the game Rogue is. That's the reason the term exist, that's the reason it was born and still continues to exist. What is silly is trying to fit whatever somewhat similiar (even when it's not) aspect you find of entirely different game in attempt of "broaden" the term to cover things it does not cover and is not meant to cover.
    Last edited by Wilian; 2012-05-28 at 02:06 PM.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  4. #24
    I played ArmA before Dayz - hipsterkitty.jpg

    Not tried it out yet, though I know the dozens of people I tried to convince into getting ArmA2 before now suddenly want to play it. Apparently the rising popularity is turning it into Call of ArmA with deathmatching here, there and everywhere. Might have to team up with the lads first and go on the prowl.
    Last edited by CHALET; 2012-05-28 at 02:43 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    But you miss the very basic point which is survival =/= roguelike

    You don't seek food and shit in roguelike because of "survival", the game does not depend on them. If you play smart you never need to find things like food or water for survival. You use them like potions in battle situation for most parts, or regen of HP after. That alone is a silly "defense" here. As for items, it works as RPG with stat based measurements. DayZ does not do that to any extent. (Unless you suddenly claim that every single RPG is roguelike because you use items to come better)

    Also there are plenty of games with perma death that has nothing to do with roguelikes. While perma death is one of the defining elements of roguelike, it still has tens of more elements in it to be called such.



    It is not. The entire term "roguelike" spawned to represent the genre of games that are like the game Rogue is. That's the reason the term exist, that's the reason it was born and still continues to exist. What is silly is trying to fit whatever somewhat similiar (even when it's not) aspect you find of entirely different game in attempt of "broaden" the term to cover things it does not cover and is not meant to cover.
    I think what you're missing here is people don't really care, I will still refer to it as a roguelike to succinctly describe the unforgiving nature. Misusing the name of a sub genre of RPGs is like the last thing on my list of worries in life, especially when it so far has successfully portrayed what to expect in the game. Not trying to be a jerk but no one has ever questioned calling it that, because it describes the experience relatively well. It's still an FPS game, it will never be a sprite based, turn based RPG but no one would ever make the mistake of thinking it is by a screenshot.

    http://forums.somethingawful.com/sho...readid=3481582

    There's another thread on the game referring it to roguelikes. I don't ant to be a jerk about it, I mean if you want to talk about roguelikes that is fine and cool but if you want to sway opinions I don't think you will succeed because I don't think people care that much about preserving the sanctity of the term roguelike (or the implication that using it anywhere near Day Z is as big an affront as you think)

  6. #26
    Stood in the Fire
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    I'm pretty tempted to buy this game. Right now my wallet is split between this game, or Max payne 3 (with a free copy of L.A noire)

  7. #27
    This is a fantastic game, if you want to see how it is I'll be livestreaming it on my channel today. I'll also be giving away a few copies of ArmA II Combined Operations if you guys want to try to win that.

    It really is a fantastic mod despite all the bugs and hard to enter servers. If you have patience it is extremely rewarding.

    http://www.twitch.tv/talutha

  8. #28
    I think this mod is awesome, well from what I've seen and read of it so far. I'm not sure that it's worth buying Arma II CO just to play Day Z (I really have no interest to play Arma II, I've played the demo and I was a fan of OFP back in the day, but its not really my 'cup of tea' anymore).

    I'd love for Day Z to become as successful as say Counter Strike and become a stand alone game. Then I would definitely buy it. But unfortunately there's too many other games out or coming out that I'd buy before buying Arma II just to play a mod.

    OT: About Day Z and regarding roguelikes..
    There is not much in the way of character progression (from what I've seen) other than gathering items, and there aren't any real stats or leveling and the combat is not turn based (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this). To me though, the standout feature and what really sets a roguelike apart from other RPGs is that it forces you into playing a permanent death scenario where you are forced to start over when you die. So in that one aspect it is similar.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Olivegamer View Post
    There is not much in the way of character progression (from what I've seen) other than gathering items, and there aren't any real stats or leveling and the combat is not turn based (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about any of this). To me though, the standout feature and what really sets a roguelike apart from other RPGs is that it forces you into playing a permanent death scenario where you are forced to start over when you die. So in that one aspect it is similar.
    Similiar =/= same though (And I'll have to ask, is ONE aspect of something enough to make it called similiar). If we go and start naming genres because of artificial similiarity (or having one aspect of something) we should just call every single post 90's RPG an adventure game instead of RPG because they happen to have dialogue tree and choices in them. (Invented by adventure games, NOT RPGs).

    Or we could call games like Transport Tycoon (business management) an RPG because you happen to "make" a character and the choices you make throghout the game affects the "end".

    Picking out one aspect of a game and then trying to fit entire genre to suit it is outright ridiculous as is trying to bend the term to mean something that it is not intended to mean (as the past posters have done) just to get a "point" through. The only reason word "roguelike" exists in modern dictionary is because it was made to represent games that are like Rogue.

    Hell, this whole thing reminds me of the "FPS also means third person shooters because you shoot in both gametypes" shit that was going on few months ago here.

    And by this point it starts to remind me a situation of "Well I said it's roguelike!!! but that's my opinion and it's correct because I said so and make my own definitions of shit" aswell. Just one giant pile of facepalm after another.

    And as for that SA link. I don't know which is more silly, you trying to sound smart when being wrong or you trying to back your opinion by another person who's at loss of what the definition is.


    And finally, since some are thick I shall present you "dictionary" level of roguelike definition:

    The roguelike is a sub-genre of role-playing video games, characterized by level randomization, permanent death, and turn-based movement. Most roguelikes feature ASCII graphics, with newer ones increasingly offering tile-based graphics. Games are typically dungeon crawls, with many monsters, items, and environmental features. Computer roguelikes usually employ the majority of the keyboard to facilitate interaction with items and the environment. The name of the genre comes from the 1980 game Rogue.

    And as an ending note for this discussion overall about roguelike shit:

    Last edited by Wilian; 2012-05-29 at 08:44 AM.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  10. #30
    My exact words were "in that one aspect it is similar" ...in your other post you asked how it was even "remotely" similar to a roguelike, well that is your answer.

    You seem to be taking it rather personally, which I find weird, but you also go out of your way to be rude so this will be my last post regarding this side argument within the thread.
    Last edited by Olivegamer; 2012-05-29 at 09:51 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Olivegamer View Post
    My exact words were "in that one aspect it is similar" ...in your other post you asked how it was even "remotely" similar to a roguelike, well that is your answer.
    Well, in greater context of things my post was about the overall discussion of the subject, not what you posted. I didn't even conflict your statement, just said in broader respect that it's silly to define a genre based on one thing instead of looking what else it contains. And perma death is not something that is "roguelike" exclucivity so bringing it up as example remains silly. (The first paraghraph was what was really about your post and the rest was about the other stuff)

    You seem to be taking it rather personally, which I find weird, but you also go out of your way to be rude so this will be my last post regarding this side argument within the thread.
    I don't take it "personally" per say, I just don't like when people come out and say something that isn't true at all (Until they themselves start making definitions out of it to justify being wrong) That same goes with being "rude". People nowdays seem to think that when they are wrong, they can justify it by building new meanings to the definitions of certain words just to be right instead of admitting that they were at fault. I can come out strongly while I'm trying to make a point across over these silly subjects though, because the people claiming A is Ä are equally strong in their bull-skullness.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  12. #32
    Good job at derailing the thread about the term "roguelike" when no one really gives a shit. People have different opinions and use words differently. No one cares what the dictionary definition of a term is. If I read roguelike I would automatically think about the rogue class from wow and think I'd have to be stealthy and shit. Seriously, it actually hurts my eyes to read all the crap you just wrote about a silly term that actually refers to an old game that no one could care less about. Talk about taking things personally.

    Anyway, back on topic. I've played the game, not a big fan myself but it's a hella fun when playing with friends. Playing in a group and murdering everyone or just sitting back with a sniper. You can practically do anything you want.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Wamler View Post
    Good job at derailing the thread about the term "roguelike" when no one really gives a shit. People have different opinions and use words differently. No one cares what the dictionary definition of a term is. If I read roguelike I would automatically think about the rogue class from wow and think I'd have to be stealthy and shit. Seriously, it actually hurts my eyes to read all the crap you just wrote about a silly term that actually refers to an old game that no one could care less about. Talk about taking things personally.
    WoW is FPS.

    Besides, obviously someone cares since it's not a monologue for two pages.
    Modern gaming apologist: I once tasted diarrhea so shit is fine.

    "People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an excercise of power, are barbarians" - George Lucas 1988

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    WoW is FPS.

    Besides, obviously someone cares since it's not a monologue for two pages.
    Nope, no one cares...

  15. #35
    Reporting back after a Memorial Day weekend full of zombie survival. Random thoughts, so sorry if it's a little disorganized.

    The mod is fun. Buggy, of course, but fun. There are certainly some things they need to improve upon, like the delay in zeds going down after killing them, and -maybe- some sort of melee or at least booby traps (I know ArmA II doesn't have melee, but I've seen some vids on Youtube where people added in melee) but I would worry about melee being OP, unless melee weapons had some sort of durability. The reason I'd like to see melee is, as it is right now, I never kill zeds unless I'm in a position to pull just one or two outside town and into the woods. I usually sneak around them because it's way too easy to aggro a whole town with gun fire. I guess that adds to the overall danger of the game though.

    Basically I avoid towns, and the coast as a whole, unless I absolutely need something, and when I get into a town I try to do my best Sam Fisher impersonation. I've been doing my best to get a lay of the land so it's easier to join up with friends. I'm pretty comfortable with the southwestern layout of the map, but still working on recon of the rest of it. The map is huge and it's not so easy to move across the terrain. Night is intense. But also seems impossible to do anything and stay alive for long.

    I didn't have many problems with other players, but maybe that was the server I was on (Dallas 22). The admins generally encouraged players to not be dicks to others. I still had to defend myself a couple of times, though.
    Last edited by nbm02ss; 2012-05-29 at 05:42 PM.

  16. #36
    Pandaren Monk Nirawen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nbm02ss View Post
    The map is huge and it's not so easy to move across the terrain. Night is intense. But also seems impossible to do anything and stay alive for long.

    I didn't have many problems with other players, but maybe that was the server I was on (Dallas 22). The admins generally encouraged players to not be dicks to others. I still had to defend myself a couple of times, though.
    If you use a map you soon get used to long distance travelling, get a good feel for how much distance ingame matches the map so you can run for 15-20 minutes without using roads or towns as landmarks and still end up where you wanted.

    My current character is 4 days old, been playing as a group of 2 with a friend. We've been sniped about 6 times so far, only getting away with a small amount of blood, took my friend about 20 minutes to cover a mile as he kept falling unconcious every 10 steps :P. Had quite a fun fire fight in the supermarket in Stary Sobor, just as we were leaving a group of bandits opened fire on us so we had to hide inside, luckily our shots combined with all the zombie aggro took them all down.
    Her hall is called Eljudnir,
    her dish is Hunger,
    her knife is Famine,
    her slave is Lazy,
    and Slothful is her woman servant.

  17. #37
    My current character is about a day old now. Nearly died a few times. About two hours ago I aggro'd a whole town of zombies and finished off the last one with my last bullet. DO NOT FIRE RIFLES NEAR TOWNS! Thought the Lee Enfield was quieter than that >.>

  18. #38
    Pandaren Monk Nirawen's Avatar
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    Finally died, got shot at so ducked down behind a tree, found where I was being shot from and fired off a few m16 rounds before being shot once which took me down 9k blood and knocked me unconcious instantly so I had to lay there bleeding out til I died hehe. Only annoying part was that he didnt even have a sniper rifle, had a standard m4a1 and got "lucky shot" as he described it from about 300m.
    Her hall is called Eljudnir,
    her dish is Hunger,
    her knife is Famine,
    her slave is Lazy,
    and Slothful is her woman servant.

  19. #39
    For a mod currently on ALPHA, is the most well made mod i have seen so far

  20. #40
    Trying to put together a kit for self sustainability out in the woods. Just need matches, knife, tent, and hatchet. I would have thought you could grab an axe that you often see outsides houses, but guess not. I generally don't linger out on the coast. Too many asshats there and in Cherno and Elektro. Having much better luck surviving by heading inland after scouring for some supplies in barns. I'm generally on the Dallas 20 server under the name Nihilist, if anyone wants a friendly to watch their back.

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