If you are a feminist and really believe feminisim is about equality

[Kasierith]

because i highly doubt the current crop of women in the workforce are willing to wait 30-50 years for the feministly-educated babies to grow up and take managerial positions before they begin to see any of their *own* working conditions and opportunities begin to improve.

The people who are limiting those managerial positions are typically those who have been in businesses for a long time, and are from the age before women could even vote. They are being cycled out now by retirements and other events, opening up opportunities not previously available. Medicine in particular is growing rapidly, specifically in terms of physicians and pharmacists. And yes, I admit, some affirmative action plans would benefit... but once equality is reached, what will happen? Will the laws stay and become unjust, or will they be removed which would invoke a response in itself? And is the point of affirmative action to cause equality in opportunity, or equality in numbers? I refer again to my Navy SEAL argument.... do you believe that it is right that there are far more men in the SEALs than there are women?

[Confirm Deny]

Really...

And what is your definition of feminism? And what is wrong about educating people about problems in society? I suppose by your point of view, teaching people about the history of African Americans in society and their progress through the years and various civil rights movements is racist against white men,

I don't think he's degrading your position, he's just being obtuse in general because he thinks this thread is stupid and that kind of is takin a dig at why anybody would be involved here anyway.

[semaphore]

How about we restructure education, then? More women succeed at every level of education all the way up to Doctorate degrees. I don't have sauce, but heard this on NPR about 2 years ago.

Before we resort to a fundamental restructuring, we should first determine why this is. It is not necessarily a flaw of the education system.

[Laize]

Why not stop calling it feminism if it's really about equality? Shouldn't it simply be called egalitarianism? That's what we're REALLY going for isn't it? Freedom for both men AND women.

[semaphore]

But, what the fuck, I'm not Wells. I think this thread is stupid, too, considering the post history that shows why it was made. (Maybe another day)

It is an incredibly stupid thread
I wish I can stop procrastinating in it...

---------- Post added 2012-05-25 at 12:02 AM ----------

Why not stop calling it feminism if it's really about equality? Shouldn't it simply be called egalitarianism? That's what we're REALLY going for isn't it? Freedom for both men AND women.

You could.

[BananaInsane]

Feminism began as an attempt to break away from certain traditions in society that were very damaging to women. For example, men gaining 100% of the divorce property while being the sole decider of whether they could divorce, in some areas not being allowed to hold assemblies, later on the right to vote.. it developed then into a system to try to analyze the social structures between men and women. It was focused at that point on diagnosing the problems and finding out what made men and women different, why there are differences in communication and social life, things like that. Then after that point it was taken up into the more active political spectrum across the globe, attempting to establish equality and rights according to the government and businesses. Affirmative action and the concept of feminism as anti-masculinity is really the last of a long line of developments

That makes sense. Masculinitism wouldn't be very popular probably because most of the things that will be brought up is man assault and stuff like that. (like slapping a man is socially acceptable.) So I don't really know what they would work towards in terms of equality and rights.

[Wiredmana]

I support Masculism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism
That everyone is equal and opinions are unbiased against sexes. Feminists have turned from what they used to be to obtaining higher powers over men. Making the social norm much more relaxed for female actions, yet so much more strict for male's.

[semaphore]

That makes sense. Masculinitism wouldn't be very popular probably because most of the things that will be brought up is man assault and stuff like that. (like slapping a man is socially acceptable.) So I don't really know what they will work towards in terms of equality and rights.

Also the origins of the term is a little iffy. But a light slap may be acceptable, but actual assault is not. At least I hope not, uncalled for violence should be abhorred.

[Wells]

Before we resort to a fundamental restructuring, we should first determine why this is. It is not necessarily a flaw of the education system.

Personally I'm inclined to believe its a social problem, and not one with feminism.

Why not stop calling it feminism if it's really about equality? Shouldn't it simply be called egalitarianism? That's what we're REALLY going for isn't it? Freedom for both men AND women.

Because feminism seeks to specifically address the fact that women are discriminated against?

[Kasierith]

Why not stop calling it feminism if it's really about equality? Shouldn't it simply be called egalitarianism? That's what we're REALLY going for isn't it? Freedom for both men AND women.

You could call it anything you want. I am female, so it makes sense for me to attempt to understand the sociological interactions between the genders from the perspective of a woman, even if I do sometimes study it from the other side to attempt to remain free from bias. Ultimately, it started as focusing only on women, and then developed... so it may be about equality now, but its roots were about obtaining freedom

[Grizzly Willy]

Why not stop calling it feminism if it's really about equality? Shouldn't it simply be called egalitarianism? That's what we're REALLY going for isn't it? Freedom for both men AND women.

I like that. It's really what we are, or at least should be, striving for. An egalitarian society.

[semaphore]

Personally I'm inclined to believe its a social problem, and not one with feminism.

I would think so too. I don't really see why people think it's due to feminism.

[Laize]

Personally I'm inclined to believe its a social problem, and not one with feminism.



Because feminism seeks to specifically address the fact that women are discriminated against?

And in doing so its not truly about equality. It's about women's issues. If you want to fight for women's issues, do it. But call a spade a spade.

[semaphore]

I like that. It's really what we are, or at least should be, striving for. An egalitarian society.

Egalitarianism already exists. Feminism etc are probably considered sub-movements. Better off to just call it gender equality like racial equality, but then people like having one word names.

[Wells]

And in doing so its not truly about equality. It's about women's issues. If you want to fight for women's issues, do it. But call a spade a spade.

Its about equality so far as they pertain to women's issues. If your biggest criticism of feminism is that its something that isn't by definition feminist then I don't know what to tell you besides lol.

Your entire argument assumes that women aren't discriminated against to even border of rational.

[Grizzly Willy]

Egalitarianism already exists. Feminism etc are probably considered sub-movements. Better off to just call it gender equality like racial equality, but then people like having one word names.

To be fair, I'm not opposed to feminism, either. I am a bit miffed that our wonderful governor Scott Walker repealed the Equal Pay for Equal Work law, saying that "money is more important to men."

[Kasierith]

And in doing so its not truly about equality. It's about women's issues. If you want to fight for women's issues, do it. But call a spade a spade.

If there is inequality present that is caused by women's issues, wouldn't addressing those issues also help with the inequality?

[Confirm Deny]

Egalitarianism already exists. Feminism etc are probably considered sub-movements. Better off to just call it gender equality like racial equality, but then people like having one word names.

Hey, who are you stereotyping!

I love two word names!... leaving thread. <_< >_>

[BananaInsane]

Also the origins of the term is a little iffy. But a light slap may be acceptable, but actual assault is not. At least I hope not, uncalled for violence should be abhorred.

Maybe assault was the wrong word, but have you seen the staged video of a couple fighting in the park, and they change from the woman assaulting the man to the other way around and the walk byers react alot differently. The man assault was like nothing and the woman assault was very dramatic.

[Rukh]

So if you have a scale, and on one side you have an elephant, and the other a feather. Do you scream bloody murder and inequality blah blah fart fart fart if someone adds a second feather to the first feather? Because that's what you are doing, and I hope people see how stupid it looks.