So, is 120 stamina worse than 80 mastery?

[fateswarm]

I read most conventional wisdom assumes mastery > stamina (unless mastery related mitigation is capped) but I'm not sure what's going on with the bonuses Blizzard gave to stamina. Is that 50% bonus on some professions for example worth using stamina over -50% mastery?

[Tryana]

Stamina's cost on the stat-budget is lower.

Each primary/rating is worth 1.0
Stamina gets 1.5 for the budget

[Mehman]

gemming mastery is still better (just assuming this is the question), also most enchanting mastery is better, in all general mastery is just better than stam, even with stams higher stat points

[Tyrven]

There are plenty of fights that you want a set amount of life to tank. There aren't many times your mastery has to be a set number to do the fight. You also never hit a stam cap but you can and will hit a mastery cap.

[fateswarm]

gemming mastery is still better (just assuming this is the question)

Most of the info I found from respectable sources - mainly Elitist Jerks - talks about the base, i.e. 1 point of mastery > 1 point of stamina. But, while I have heard the phrase "gem mastery", I wonder if it's universally accepted and not just a misunderstanding of the "1 point" rule I just mentioned. I'm not convinced yet those huge bonuses of 50% more stamina than mastery on some profession properties are still keeping stamina worse for most situations.

I'm of course not convinced about that either [and I haven't read too much about it] and the tank I'm talking about is just an alt so I'm not in any way proficient in those things in this expansion.

---------- Post added 2012-05-25 at 03:09 PM ----------

There are plenty of fights that you want a set amount of life to tank. There aren't many times your mastery has to be a set number to do the fight. You also never hit a stam cap but you can and will hit a mastery cap.

Do you imply that you always choose 120 stamina over 80 mastery?

[Palaplu]

mastery is better as long as you're not CTC capped

[Malthanis]

The issue with mastery is that, point for point, it is the most effective stat in getting us to the CTC cap (and encounters are currently tooled based on our ability to get CTC capped). But, since we have no secondary mechanic on our mastery, as soon as we hit CTC cap the value of mastery drops to 0. The value of stamina is constant, because there's nothing that stops or reduces the benefit it gives you.

So, short answer: If you're not at CTC cap, mastery is better than stamina. Otherwise, stamina is greater than mastery.

[fateswarm]

as soon as we hit CTC cap the value of mastery drops to 0

Just to be a bit pedantic, as with most caps that reach total effectiveness there is the rare scenario of a debuf or other mechanic reducing another stat and hence making the value more than 0.

[Tyrven]

Do you imply that you always choose 120 stamina over 80 mastery?

No I don't and didn't. It isn't always one or the other all the time though. While ppl should and might already know that, there are plenty that hear or see one thing and that becomes the one and only way to do it in there mind. What stats you want on all toons is somewhat fluid based on the fight you are doing this is most true with tanks. What is best for them changes fight to fight sometimes. Is mastery better then stam, many times it is, but it isn't always.

[Raugnaut]

The main reason that Stamina is worse then Mastery is because stamina does not reduce the amount of damage we take in any form- CtC cap, on the other hand, grants us a constant 30% physical damage reduction, with whats essentailly 50% physical with Holy Shield up.

On certain fights, such as Morchok and Madness, yes, having a high stamina set would be the better choice. For others, such as Zon'ozz and Warmaster, Mastery is the best choice as it allows us to mitigate those high-damage blows, granting us a long time to live then gemming mastery (I.E 120 stamina gives you an extra 2k or so HP, while the 80 mastery gets you CtC capped, on Zon'ozz, the stamina wont do a thing if RNG fails and you take that single unmitigated hit for 30% more then what it should be).

The only 2 exceptions to Mastery in DS are Yorsajh and Madness, in which case you want Stamina. Yor is mostly magical damage, while Madness is mostly unmitagatable damage.

Stamina does have a higher point-per item, but the usefulness of Stamina pales in comparision to CtC capping.If you have a choice between CtC cap and Stamina, go with the CtC cap. As for avoidance, thats more up to you, as healer mana doesnt matter as much anymore.

[underdogba]

Just to be a bit pedantic, as with most caps that reach total effectiveness there is the rare scenario of a debuf or other mechanic reducing another stat and hence making the value more than 0.

There is no such scenario in the entirety of Cata endgame boss fights.

---------- Post added 2012-05-27 at 05:43 AM ----------

The main reason that Stamina is worse then Mastery is because stamina does not reduce the amount of damage we take in any form- CtC cap, on the other hand, grants us a constant 30% physical damage reduction, with whats essentailly 50% physical with Holy Shield up.

The idea that one or the other is worse is totally meaningless without looking at the specific characteristics of the fights in question. It just happens that the mechanics of Cata tended to favor stacking Mastery up to CTC, but this is not true simply on the basis of flimsy general principles.

The notion that Stamina is worse because it does not produce a damage reduction is complete nonsense when it comes to practical play. The overarching goal of tanking is to survive, and survival in the context of WoW mechanics can be generalized as being the most easily-healable target possible. Stamina and Mastery both contribute to this goal, just in ways that are not exactly the same.

[fateswarm]

There is no such scenario in the entirety of Cata endgame boss fights.

It was theoretical. I do not know if it's true Cataclysm has no mechanic that reduces dodge, parry or mastery but it can fundamentally happen in the game in the future, past or present..

---------- Post added 2012-05-27 at 04:05 PM ----------

No I don't and didn't. It isn't always one or the other all the time though. While ppl should and might already know that, there are plenty that hear or see one thing and that becomes the one and only way to do it in there mind. What stats you want on all toons is somewhat fluid based on the fight you are doing this is most true with tanks. What is best for them changes fight to fight sometimes. Is mastery better then stam, many times it is, but it isn't always.

The main reason that I wonder about your comment is that it can be very practical and clear according to some people: mastery can be reforged back to dodge or parry (whichever is lower). Hence one gets mastery always because I heard it has no diminishing returns (correct me if that's wrong nowadays) and then use that excessive mastery - if any - to increase the more powerful dodge or parry mechanics.

edit: I suppose they can't claim that's true 100% because there is a theoretical - unlikely - scenario of 100% dodge+parry or their diminishing returns may be too high to be important as stats. I do not have maths for those.

---------- Post added 2012-05-27 at 04:10 PM ----------

The notion that Stamina is worse because it does not produce a damage reduction is complete nonsense when it comes to practical play.

I believe there might be some difference in opinion stemming from 10mans in comparison to 25mans. For example when I played the epitome of a "Sponge Tank", a dk tank in Ulduar/ToC on blood spec, the stamina was huge and the mitigation tiny. In that case 10mans felt like "40% HP - 100% HP - 40% HP - 100% HP". This was quite unstable in some cases. Then when I entered a 25man guild it felt more like "80% HP - 100% HP".

Merely because there were more healers on it and more plethora of spells acting simultaneously.

[Téuntjûh]

There is no such scenario in the entirety of Cata endgame boss fights.

Dying in a bossfight and getting ressed leaves you without food buff !

[Aceshigh]

Dying in a bossfight and getting ressed leaves you without food buff !

Which is why I never factor in food buff for my ctc, and I always just eat the feast and don't bother with master food haha

[Keiyra]

It was theoretical. I do not know if it's true Cataclysm has no mechanic that reduces dodge, parry or mastery but it can fundamentally happen in the game in the future, past or present..

So can randomly appearing magical flying unicorns that poop gold and leave epic drops directly into your stash. That's theoretical too, and equally as pointless. You want do deal with the game as it is, not as it could be an any infinite number of theoretical futures.

[fateswarm]

So can randomly appearing magical flying unicorns that poop gold and leave epic drops directly into your stash. That's theoretical too, and equally as pointless. You want do deal with the game as it is, not as it could be an any infinite number of theoretical futures.

Look I made a theoretical note and I warned explicitly it was pedantic. I don't understand the point of your post. Look up the word pedantic.