Garrosh's fate.

[Snowraven]

I prefer option three... or actually, I have an even better idea, have him lose an arm and a leg and as such be rendered helpless for the rest of his life. For an orc this would be even worse then death! He'd be like a madman yelling around how the Horde should do this and that with kids telling him "you can't even fight!" and throwing with apples at him, and at the end he bends and takes an apple to eat it because of the hunger. Forgiven for his crimes, but now forgatten by the Horde.

Personally I love his character, I understand why he does what he does. Attacking ashinvale to feed the horde. Showing the orc who bombed stonetalon thats not how they roll, bein a respectful fighting on the battlefield. He is tough and brutal, but its best for the horde, during times where the horde arnt sure where their next meal will come from, garrosh gives them that meal.

And the horde will not simply forget that fact during the battle in org.

Yes... except that if he would have actually pushed more negociations, the night elves didn't mind trading with the Horde, as stated in the Shattering book, but Garrosh didn't like trading, he wanted that his orcs rip the benefits. Plus, the orcs weren't starving before. And it's good that now they have what to eat but not what to drink. In case you forgat, Garrosh ordered the goblins to make a quarry behind Org, thus polluting the only water source of Orgrimmar, then he comes with his demands of water to the tauren...

---------- Post added 2012-05-26 at 09:45 AM ----------

As much as I HATE Garrosh.. yeh this z<,<



Evidence 1. Garrosh DID NOT MURDER Cairne.
Evidence 2. Margattha poisened Garroshe's weapon, tell him it was a "blessing"
Evidence 3. Margattha wanted help from Garrosh afterwards, garrosh sent her a big NOOOOOOOOOOOO you witch you made so I did not win the duel-by honour
Evidence 4. it Was CAIRNE who challanged GARROSH not the other way around ;PD

Oh here we go again...
1. Is Cairne dead? Did Cairne die because of the blow applied by Garrosh? Yes to both, so Garrosh killed Cairne, not murdered.
2. True.
3. Yes, he said "I wanted to KILL Cairne honorably"
4. But it was Garrosh who turned the duel into one to the death, was it not? And Cairne had a legitimate reason for challenging Garrosh, some orcs attacking his tauren and Hamuul telling him it was Horde orcs, what reason did Garrosh have for turning it into a duel to the death? His pride.

[Cannis866]

dont explain lore to people who want to ignore it honestly, people like to ignore that cairne challenged garrosh

Truth!

i would rather see #2 or #4.
seem like kinda lame they would kill off one of the few last "named" untainted orcs, but then again i am not sure on how many untainted orcs are left.

[GeordieMagpie]

Eiither die or..well..Die like Grom , with dignity. But there might be a redemption story..knowing Blizz..still, I wonder how allies will treat this, I'm sure they want to destroy Orgrimmar..so..<.<

[Cannis866]

---------- Post added 2012-05-26 at 09:45 AM ----------

[/COLOR]
Oh here we go again...
1. Is Cairne dead? Did Cairne die because of the blow applied by Garrosh? Yes to both, so Garrosh killed Cairne, not murdered.
2. True.
3. Yes, he said "I wanted to KILL Cairne honorably"
4. But it was Garrosh who turned the duel into one to the death, was it not? And Cairne had a legitimate reason for challenging Garrosh, some orcs attacking his tauren and Hamuul telling him it was Horde orcs, what reason did Garrosh have for turning it into a duel to the death? His pride.

He only up the fight to try to get him to back down, he did not want to fight him. Cause he knew if he did kill him, all this pointing the fingers would happen. He just wanted to try to get him to back down.

[Snowraven]

Garrosh Hellscream is that character you have to hate. You’re drawn in to hate him over his actions and attitude, though deep down inside you kind of enjoy him. You enjoy him in the since that when something major happens you want to know how will he react. What will he say, what will he do and you know no matter what shits about to go down. I personally think Garrosh Hellscream will meet his end but I feel he’ll take down another famous character with him, ending the expansion in kind of a sad tragedy.

No, I'm sorry, I don't really enjoy him. And the only reason that I want to know what he does when something major happens is because the other leaders of the Horde (except Sylvannas in her land) seem to be asleep, and so do all leaders of the Alliance except Varian. So by this extension, what Garrosh does = what the Horde does. If Bob was the leader of the Horde and he'd also be the same only leader getting stuff, I'd want to know what Bob does, even if Bob is an angel and a saint wanting peace and rainbows.

---------- Post added 2012-05-26 at 09:55 AM ----------

He only up the fight to try to get him to back down, he did not want to fight him. Cause he knew if he did kill him, all this pointing the fingers would happen. He just wanted to try to get him to back down.

And Cairne didn't back down because Cairne thought(because one of his best friends had told him so) that orcs of Garrosh attacked a peace summit and killed night elves and tauren. What reason did Garrosh have for not backing down after Cairne accepted his death match? Pride. That's all there is, a true good leader would stop and think "hey, come on, I know this guy doesn't particularly love me, but to actually accept my challenge to the death means that something is horribly wrong, I should investigate before I go on with this" but no, Garrosh was like "what? he dares not stand down in the face of my might after I gave him this chance? I shall not have this, I'll kill him Rawr!"

[Dreknar20]

I

Yes... except that if he would have actually pushed more negociations, the night elves didn't mind trading with the Horde, as stated in the Shattering book, but Garrosh didn't like trading, he wanted that his orcs rip the benefits. Plus, the orcs weren't starving before. And it's good that now they have what to eat but not what to drink. In case you forgat, Garrosh ordered the goblins to make a quarry behind Org, thus polluting the only water source of Orgrimmar, then he comes with his demands of water to the tauren...

---------- Post added 2012-05-26 at 09:45 AM ----------


Oh here we go again...
1. Is Cairne dead? Did Cairne die because of the blow applied by Garrosh? Yes to both, so Garrosh killed Cairne, not murdered.
2. True.
3. Yes, he said "I wanted to KILL Cairne honorably"
4. But it was Garrosh who turned the duel into one to the death, was it not? And Cairne had a legitimate reason for challenging Garrosh, some orcs attacking his tauren and Hamuul telling him it was Horde orcs, what reason did Garrosh have for turning it into a duel to the death? His pride.

The Night Elves were not willing to trade with the Horde, they were very reluctant to even meet with Hamial for negotiations

And once the Iwilight Cultists fucked that up, they Night Elves would not open trade with the orcs for a very long time
and the orcs were starving at that very second, so negotions were out of the question

And i dont understand why people keep bringing up the Baine Bloodhoof story
Garrosh did not contribute to any shortage
There was plenty of water for everyone, just that it was in the wrong place

Garrosh was not contributing to supply shortages

and honestly, shutting down production when fightinjg a very powerful enemy for the sake of nature is a pretty crap reason

And as painful as it is to say, Cairne was in the wrong in his duel against Garrosh
He accused Garrosh of shit he didnt even do, Cairne thought, but did not have a legitimate reason

And Garrosh did not intend to kill Cairne, the reason he changed the duel to the death, so that Cairne would have to say "sorry" to him
and when Cairne did not back down, well we all know Garrosh was one to never back down either
And if u read the Shattering, you can see that GArrosh was troubled before, and after the duel with Cairne

[Snowraven]

The Night Elves were not willing to trade with the Horde, they were very reluctant to even meet with Hamial for negotiations

And once the Iwilight Cultists fucked that up, they Night Elves would not open trade with the orcs for a very long time
and the orcs were starving at that very second, so negotions were out of the question

And i dont understand why people keep bringing up the Baine Bloodhoof story
Garrosh did not contribute to any shortage
There was plenty of water for everyone, just that it was in the wrong place

Garrosh was not contributing to supply shortages

and honestly, shutting down production when fightinjg a very powerful enemy for the sake of nature is a pretty crap reason

And as painful as it is to say, Cairne was in the wrong in his duel against Garrosh
He accused Garrosh of shit he didnt even do, Cairne thought, but did not have a legitimate reason

And Garrosh did not intend to kill Cairne, the reason he changed the duel to the death, so that Cairne would have to say "sorry" to him
and when Cairne did not back down, well we all know Garrosh was one to never back down either
And if u read the Shattering, you can see that GArrosh was troubled before, and after the duel with Cairne

Tirisfal Glades looks like a nice place, and undead don't eat do they? And there's quite a few nice farms there... in Horde land. Also, I failed to see any farms in Ashenvale, what did they eat, the corpses of the dead night elves? I can even see those still! The leaves of the trees they cut?

Garrosh ordered the goblins to make the quarry, it polluted the only water supply of Orgrimmar so they asked the tauren for part of their water. The orcs had water, they polluted theirs. Also, this begs the question, with Mulgore now isolated behind a wall, where do orcs get their water from now? Nowhere? Why? Because of Garrosh, so, well done, they're no longer starving since they're eating leaves, but now they're dieing of thirst.
And yup, it sure is a crap reason, better have your people die of thirst then put a quarry somewhere else or ask some tauren druids for help. I mean, that's a stupid thing, who'd care about non-polluted water?

And actually, at that time, Cairne did have a legitimate reason. In face, if he'd challenge him now, he'd still do. You know why? Because Garrosh never conducted an investigation and the Horde doesn't even know even now that it was Twilight Cultists at the start.
And yes, he changed the duel so Cairne would say "sorry"... but hold on... so Garrosh just wanted Cairne to say he(Garrosh) is right. Why? Because he couldn't prove it? No, he could have proven it, but he wanted to humiliate Cairne and have him know who's the boss.
And yes, I did read it "oh, I killed him... dishonourably, I wish I would have killed him honourably, damn Maghda""Oh, he accepted my challenge, I'm about to kill another leader of the Horde, we had our differences, but I can't back down because I'm too proud and I can't admit even to myself the Horde might have some problems and give the old bull a thoughtful investigation and prove he's wrong as such, thus strenghtening the belief of the tauren in my leadership, nah, I'll just kill him and be over with it then have a hamburger" - this obviously aren't direct quotes, but are exact compatible with Garrosh's way of thinking.

[Tezra1520]

Just my personal opinion, but I see Garrosh going back to demon blood in some way or form. The following are my reasons;

1. It would tie into a burning legion xpac, if not the very next one.

2. I can see us and the alliance coming together to end Garrosh on this premise. It has to be something both sides believes is for the common good.

3. It would lead to Saurfang returning from Nagrand to take over the horde. Saurfang states to Garrosh in Borean Tundra that if he ever messed with the demon blood, he would kill Garrosh himself. This fits with Blizzard stating Thrall will not be returning as warchief.

4. To a lesser extent, Ragefire Chasm. The orcs in the dungeon look an awefully lot like fel orcs, I forget their names off hand.

5. This would better explain why some horde stay with Garrosh while the rest leave, because his followers have tasted the blood. Otherwise if what Garrosh does is so terrible, I can't see so many people staying at his side for the raid.

[Dreknar20]

Tirisfal Glades looks like a nice place, and undead don't eat do they? And there's quite a few nice farms there... in Horde land. Also, I failed to see any farms in Ashenvale, what did they eat, the corpses of the dead night elves? I can even see those still! The leaves of the trees they cut?

Garrosh ordered the goblins to make the quarry, it polluted the only water supply of Orgrimmar so they asked the tauren for part of their water. The orcs had water, they polluted theirs. Also, this begs the question, with Mulgore now isolated behind a wall, where do orcs get their water from now? Nowhere? Why? Because of Garrosh, so, well done, they're no longer starving since they're eating leaves, but now they're dieing of thirst.
And yup, it sure is a crap reason, better have your people die of thirst then put a quarry somewhere else or ask some tauren druids for help. I mean, that's a stupid thing, who'd care about non-polluted water?

And actually, at that time, Cairne did have a legitimate reason. In face, if he'd challenge him now, he'd still do. You know why? Because Garrosh never conducted an investigation and the Horde doesn't even know even now that it was Twilight Cultists at the start.
And yes, he changed the duel so Cairne would say "sorry"... but hold on... so Garrosh just wanted Cairne to say he(Garrosh) is right. Why? Because he couldn't prove it? No, he could have proven it, but he wanted to humiliate Cairne and have him know who's the boss.
And yes, I did read it "oh, I killed him... dishonourably, I wish I would have killed him honourably, damn Maghda""Oh, he accepted my challenge, I'm about to kill another leader of the Horde, we had our differences, but I can't back down because I'm too proud and I can't admit even to myself the Horde might have some problems and give the old bull a thoughtful investigation and prove he's wrong as such, thus strenghtening the belief of the tauren in my leadership, nah, I'll just kill him and be over with it then have a hamburger" - this obviously aren't direct quotes, but are exact compatible with Garrosh's way of thinking.

Tirisfal Glades is a waste-land,aravaged by the Scourge and their plauge
In-Game stuff is hardly representative of lore
Just because it isnt shown in-game does not mean something is not happening
Just beacuse a leader is not shown in a quesxt does not mean that leader is "not doing anything"

Garrosh is not responsible for shortges, mostly because there are no shortages
People are not dying of thirst beacuse of Garrosh
People are not dying from starvation because of Garrosh
Garrosh fixed the problem
The only reason the Taurn were irritated was because of Garrosh being rude while making his demands

What you wrote proves my point
Garrosh was not 100% happy for killing Cairne
Garrosh was not happy because killing Cairne was one of the things on his bucket list

Garrosh was troubled and had mixed feelings at being the hand that killed a hero/founder of the New Horde

[Hexa]

What if during the battle in org we dont kill garrosh but instead something else happens.

1. Garrosh wins or escapes and forms a new faction of people who still support him and becomes a long term character.

2. Garrosh gets "cured" of whatever overtakes him "if something does in fact do so" and he returns back to his normal warchief.

3. Garrosh dies plain and simple.

4. Garrosh sees the light and becomes thrall's vision of happy peace time leader (would hate to see this)

Personally id love number 1

5. Garrosh sees the light and becomes a paladin, allowing orcs to wear pink plate armors in 5th expansion pack. Lok'tar ogay.

6. Garrosh commit suicide and becomes an hero. People joke about him on facebook. Drama ensues.

7. Garrosh informs Thrall he slept with Aggra and her child is in fact HIS. Thrall commit suicide.

8. Garrosh falls on the head and is now persuaded to be a troll. Trolls facepalm. Vol'jin sigh.

9. Garrosh exile in Argent Dawn EU and try to start an ERP ring in the crossroad's inn. Facing failure, he rerolls female draenei and heads to goldshire.

10. Tired to be a douche with no more stuff than blue quality spauldrons and axe, and green quality pants, Garrosh rages on his guild's forum, get /gkicked, and cancel his subscription before yelling his anger on Youtube. Video becomes viral. He's now an internet superstar.

[Arrashi]

I prefer option three... or actually, I have an even better idea, have him lose an arm and a leg and as such be rendered helpless for the rest of his life. For an orc this would be even worse then death! He'd be like a madman yelling around how the Horde should do this and that with kids telling him "you can't even fight!" and throwing with apples at him, and at the end he bends and takes an apple to eat it because of the hunger. Forgiven for his crimes, but now forgatten by the Horde.


Yes... except that if he would have actually pushed more negociations, the night elves didn't mind trading with the Horde, as stated in the Shattering book, but Garrosh didn't like trading, he wanted that his orcs rip the benefits. Plus, the orcs weren't starving before. And it's good that now they have what to eat but not what to drink. In case you forgat, Garrosh ordered the goblins to make a quarry behind Org, thus polluting the only water source of Orgrimmar, then he comes with his demands of water to the tauren...

---------- Post added 2012-05-26 at 09:45 AM ----------


Oh here we go again...
1. Is Cairne dead? Did Cairne die because of the blow applied by Garrosh? Yes to both, so Garrosh killed Cairne, not murdered.
2. True.
3. Yes, he said "I wanted to KILL Cairne honorably"
4. But it was Garrosh who turned the duel into one to the death, was it not? And Cairne had a legitimate reason for challenging Garrosh, some orcs attacking his tauren and Hamuul telling him it was Horde orcs, what reason did Garrosh have for turning it into a duel to the death? His pride.

A fate worse than death... wait you want garrosh to become second Tyrande ?
OT: I still hope that blizz will suprise us with something more than thrall saying "Garrosh, look what happened to you. You became everything your father fought against".

[Snowraven]

Tirisfal Glades is a waste-land,aravaged by the Scourge and their plauge
In-Game stuff is hardly representative of lore
Just because it isnt shown in-game does not mean something is not happening
Just beacuse a leader is not shown in a quesxt does not mean that leader is "not doing anything"

Garrosh is not responsible for shortges, mostly because there are no shortages
People are not dying of thirst beacuse of Garrosh
People are not dying from starvation because of Garrosh
Garrosh fixed the problem
The only reason the Taurn were irritated was because of Garrosh being rude while making his demands

What you wrote proves my point
Garrosh was not 100% happy for killing Cairne
Garrosh was not happy because killing Cairne was one of the things on his bucket list

Garrosh was troubled and had mixed feelings at being the hand that killed a hero/founder of the New Horde

Fair enough. What is Baine doing besides what happens in his short story? At all, all the way from his installment as leader? As Blizzard says, the game is the first and foremost thing you take your lore from, I don't see Baine doing anything in game or anywhere else, so he does nothing. Until some npcs or something refference him... he's just a statue in TB waiting for Alliance raids. And he was just an example, there's plenty more.
Also Tirisfal Glades is ok for farming, the Scarlet Crusade had a farm there and until the forsaken killed them, they were doing just fine.

There are no shortages? As stated in Baine's shortstory, there's no water, so water comes from Mulgore. Mulgore is sealed off, where does the water come from?
True, people are not dieing of starvation because of Garrosh... they never did. As stated in Garrosh's shortstory, the markets of Orgrimmar were always full, just full from trade, not from their own making.
Garrosh polluted the only water source of Orgrimmar, Hamuul, the night elves, Baine, all see this and say it!
And no, tauren were irritated because Garrosh couldn't give a shit about their ways and went all "my way or the highway" and Garrosh did that because... his people didn't have water anymore, since he polluted the only source.

Oh no, he wasn't 100% happy. But the reason he wasn't happy was not because he killed Cairne, he wasn't happy because he didn't kill him with honour. That's the whole point. So this is not about Cairne, this is about the honour. He didn't get it.

---------- Post added 2012-05-26 at 12:46 PM ----------

A fate worse than death... wait you want garrosh to become second Tyrande ?
OT: I still hope that blizz will suprise us with something more than thrall saying "Garrosh, look what happened to you. You became everything your father fought against".

Hold on, why a second Tyrande? Tyrande doesn't do anything, I admit, but she has all her body intact.

[Cows For Life]

I have it on what the devs said several months ago, that Garrosh's 'corruption' is NOT an outside force or demons or old gods or sha or some crap that made him into a bad guy. He simply is a bad guy. His so called corruption is that of a zealous, bigoted and warmonger tyrant who wants to make the world in how he see's it.

People need to stop looking for excuses for Garrosh. He's a terrible character who nothing short of him being killed off would redeem the hellscream name.

I'll say Old Gods. It's what Metzen knows best.

[Trassk]

Oh no, he wasn't 100% happy. But the reason he wasn't happy was not because he killed Cairne, he wasn't happy because he didn't kill him with honour. That's the whole point. So this is not about Cairne, this is about the honour. He didn't get it.

Indeed and people have selective memory with how that fight carried out. Garrosh fans keep trying to make Garrosh the innocent one against big bad Cairne, yet the artwork in the back of the shattering novel had Garrosh standing over the corpse of Cairne howling in victory like some orc that just killed a demon or undead. He reveled in killing Cairne, he wanted the crowd to acknowledge his might in killing the hordes wisest leader. He is a bad guy, one that just happens to be molded into the horde body.

[Mexi]

[QUOTE=Hexa;16954151]5. Garrosh sees the light and becomes a paladin, allowing orcs to wear pink plate armors in 5th expansion pack. Lok'tar ogay.

Man this maked me chuckle a bit!

[Dreknar20]

Indeed and people have selective memory with how that fight carried out. Garrosh fans keep trying to make Garrosh the innocent one against big bad Cairne, yet the artwork in the back of the shattering novel had Garrosh standing over the corpse of Cairne howling in victory like some orc that just killed a demon or undead. He reveled in killing Cairne, he wanted the crowd to acknowledge his might in killing the hordes wisest leader. He is a bad guy, one that just happens to be molded into the horde body.

No No No No sooo very wrong

BEFORE Garrosh even dueled Cairne, and BEFORE he even realized he was tricked by Magatha, Garrosh had some guilt and "mixed feelings"
His blade being poisnoed has nothing to do with those feelings

Garrosh resented being the hand that killed a hero of the Horde, but he took pride/and comforted himself in that tyhe duel was fair, and that Cainre was the one to challenge him, it was THEN that he learned he was used, it was LATER that he learned

[Venziir]

I feel he will die. He follows what he sees as Orc tradition very zealously, he will see the encounter as Victory Or Death. Of which he will die.

This, this very much indeed. It's either victory or death, and since Orgrimmar will be besieged and he will be a boss - well neither sounds like victory to me. So death it is.

[Dreknar20]

This, this very much indeed. It's either victory or death, and since Orgrimmar will be besieged and he will be a boss - well neither sounds like victory to me. So death it is.

Thing about a redemption story tho.......

Is that the person being redemed changes. They "learn the error of their ways" and change

[Venziir]

Thing about a redemption story tho.......

Is that the person being redemed changes. They "learn the error of their ways" and change

True, and they might pull a redemption story. I just feel that it would be a notch too cliché since they pulled a redemption story on his father Grom. Well that and we have nothing even hinting at a redemption story. And Blizzard aren't fans of redeeming the big baddies - atleast not in WoW. Arthas, Illidan, Deathwing - all dead.

[Dreknar20]

True, and they might pull a redemption story. I just feel that it would be a notch too cliché since they pulled a redemption story on his father Grom. Well that and we have nothing even hinting at a redemption story. And Blizzard aren't fans of redeeming the big baddies - atleast not in WoW. Arthas, Illidan, Deathwing - all dead.

well at one of the Blizzcon's Metzen did say "he was a sucker for a good redemption story"

Because look in Cataclysm
Garrosh shows that he sucks at being a political leader at some points
But he still shows hes a good leader at other points

He isnt 100% total fail at warchief
We wont really know Garrosh's fate
However a big clue would be when we find out what is actually "corrupting" Garrosh

I mean if Garrosh being a war-junkie makes him vunerable to Sha corruption
Would that not be a good setup for a redemption story?