Mop dungeons, low in number

[Sarevokcz]

I could have sworn that they said that you didn't need to farm normal dungeons just so you can do heroic dungeons in MoP.

you didnt need to in Cata either, fully quested Uldum/TH and done all dungeon quests was enough to get 329 ilev, We were running heroics the same day Cata launched.

[supremacyqt]

i see this kinda thing on the horizon tbh

with LFR and LFG and a little bit of the challenge mode gear normalisation mechanic, you could essentially scale any player back to level 60, 70, 80 and 85 to tackle old heroics and raids as they were intended (depending on what pre-set gear levels the developers decide upon should such a thing be implemented)

it'd certainly make transmog runs a bit more interesting as well as keep all the old dungeons and raids as "current" content, but probably not wise to use them as progression content, just something like scenarios and a way to get points to buy entry level raid gear.

for example, i'd love to be able to go back and do molten core 40 man, onyxia 40, naxx 40 and AQ 40, i missed all the 40 man raids as i started in TBC, being able to use the raid finder to go back and give them a crack for some transmog gear and a bit of gold would be awesome. same for sunwell, even if it was a slightly nerfed version (to cater for the fact it was done through lfr), i'd love to be able to go back and raid it with 25 people.

Waiting for this too, and some blue said, some time ago, that they could expand on this later
Challenge Modes are the first try

[Yulinora]

That's alot of theory crafting and pure speculation on your part, when the more logical conclusion is that it'l (RFC heroic)l be part of the launch kit.

As someone who is on beta at the moment, I highly doubt we'll see RFC return as a heroic (Just as we didn't see stocks become a heroic in cata, despite it having its own remake), there's no evidence of it in the dungeon journal, despite its regular version appearing in the vanilla section, with mechanics. If it was intended to be a heroic, we'd have seen some evidence of it in the Mists section as well.

OT: 6 Pandaria Dungeons + 3 heroic remakes = only 2 less than Wrath at launch, and honestly, the 3 remakes feel nothing like the 2 added in cata, I almost feel as if I'm running a new dungeon, the layouts are vaguely familiar, but they just feel different then what they did. Besides, even if you're not a hardcore raider anymore, with raid Finder, you only really end up seeing these a handful of times before switching to raids. As for loot, some of it is in the dungeon loot tables, even if not all bosses are dropping it, now you can't see which boss drops what to my knowledge, but of the 4 dungeons that have loot up, the spread is pretty ok at first glance (aside from spirit cloth, which is being addressed).

[melodramocracy]

You have a point, I didn't consider scenarios, though the 5/10 levels thing is a moot point when they've said 5=10 more or less

Except that 5 doesn't = 10. There were fewer quests from 80-85 than Wraths 70-80 (less of everything else too). While the numbers "can" be meaningless, they aren't historically.

[Snowraven]

It's the same amount they had when Cataclysm started for dungeons. One difference though, you have 3 remade ones, as opposed to 2 in Cataclysm.

[dokhidamo]

It's the same amount they had when Cataclysm started for dungeons. One difference though, you have 3 remade ones, as opposed to 2 in Cataclysm.

9 total, 3 remakes. That means 6 new dungeons.

Cata had 5 new dungeons. So we are up one.

[ayashi]

Something i would like to see in MoP to aliviate the raid burn-out sindrome (specially with #$%^& LFR !) would be two raid sharing a same ID.
Taking T11 as an exemple : what if you could only do BWD or BoT in any single week. Killing a boss in one would lock you out of the other raid.
We wouldn't be always seening teh same bosses every week for months.

Obviously that would imply that MoP should ship with more raids so balance it. Doubtful but still...

[La]

every raid should be like ulduar, that set the standard for raids and not one has lived up to it since. also you can`t say there`s less heroics because of scenarios/challenge modes when they`re just recycled parts of the world with dungeon mobs, that`s all we need now, people going "lfm for saidraid, must have full gold challenge modes complete pst"

[Faithshield]

Does it really matter? As long as there is a bit of variety, most people view dungeons as a grind and I see little reason to have so many dungeons all on the same tier. Perhaps they are holding some back for 5.1. That would seem the better option to me.

[Arridor]

There's only four normal dungeons. FOUR. That's definitely too low, and most of them don't drop enough gear to fully deck out a character - and you definitely should not have any Cata stuff on your person when you attempt MoP heroics. Scenarios were not supposed to fill that niche according to previous information, so unless they make Siege of Niuzao Temple and Gate of the Setting Sun into 89-90 normals and add more gear in there, we're getting rehash of Cataclysm reception: "not enough end game content" and "too high difficulty curve".

[Faithshield]

There's only four normal dungeons. FOUR. That's definitely too low, and most of them don't drop enough gear to fully deck out a character - and you definitely should not have any Cata stuff on your person when you attempt MoP heroics. Scenarios were not supposed to fill that niche according to previous information, so unless they make Siege of Niuzao Temple and Gate of the Setting Sun into 89-90 normals and add more gear in there, we're getting rehash of Cataclysm reception: "not enough end game content" and "too high difficulty curve".

A lot of pre-heroic gear for Cata could be found from max level questing such as in Twilight Highlands and reputations. I don't think Blizzard has ever said you should be able to fully deck out your character just by dungeoning.

[Kathranis]

They're starting with the same as Cataclysm plus an additional revamp, which isn't a bad start.

Expect more dungeons as patches start coming in. Blizzard seems to be really intent on releasing a lot of post-launch content. They've stated they're aiming for four months per raid tier with minor content patches in between.

I'm thinking we might see a patch cycle closer to Classic's, where each patch won't include a raid tier, but may introduce new dungeons, battlegrounds, reputations, quest hubs, and scenarios.

---------- Post added 2012-05-29 at 08:17 PM ----------

There's only four normal dungeons. FOUR. That's definitely too low, and most of them don't drop enough gear to fully deck out a character - and you definitely should not have any Cata stuff on your person when you attempt MoP heroics. Scenarios were not supposed to fill that niche according to previous information, so unless they make Siege of Niuzao Temple and Gate of the Setting Sun into 89-90 normals and add more gear in there, we're getting rehash of Cataclysm reception: "not enough end game content" and "too high difficulty curve".

We'll be able to get valor from daily quests (with no daily quest cap) and scenarios.

Are you really that worried about gearing up for heroics? Seriously? C'mon, now.

[Clams Casino]

9 dungeons, 3 of which are rehashes. So 6 dungeons, compared to the, what, 15 that launched in BC?

I hate the direction blizz is going. I mean, I'm exciting for MoP mainly for pvp but I got a feeling there's gonna be jack shit for pve content just like in cata. More sitting in orgrimmar.

[Zeglo]

There may be fewer dungeons, but there is equal content in the form of dailies, lore questlines, profession updates, etc.

Not everyone wants to just run dungeons all day. It's fun to feel immersed in the world.

I agree with Kathranis.

[Dravelar]

There's only four normal dungeons. FOUR. That's definitely too low, and most of them don't drop enough gear to fully deck out a character - and you definitely should not have any Cata stuff on your person when you attempt MoP heroics. Scenarios were not supposed to fill that niche according to previous information, so unless they make Siege of Niuzao Temple and Gate of the Setting Sun into 89-90 normals and add more gear in there, we're getting rehash of Cataclysm reception: "not enough end game content" and "too high difficulty curve".

gate of setting sun is a normal dungeon too

[Deficineiron]

Well there is only so much they can do with 5 levels compared to 10. But I do think the amount they have is fine. Considering they will have Scenarios, Challenge Modes, Raids/LFR, and Heroics now.

you are kidding, 5 levels versus 10 makes a difference in how much they are able to develop? say it isn't so! They certainly have no control over time-to-level curves, mob xp, etc.

Looking at the matter seriously, I think they are, for marketing reasons, trying to keep the game below level 100 for as many years as possible.

---------- Post added 2012-05-30 at 01:03 AM ----------

Except that 5 doesn't = 10. There were fewer quests from 80-85 than Wraths 70-80 (less of everything else too). While the numbers "can" be meaningless, they aren't historically.

not sure it is fair to consider linear questing vs. the prior model. also, they control xp curves and quest xp. if they wanted a longer questing time to max, they would have one.

I am shocked that people are using the 5 vs 10 as a basis for defending less of this or that in the 5 level expansion. Blizzard should just release a one-level expansion, as they clearly have some folks that will defend a single new zone and an instance or two.

[Ilyiana]

gate of setting sun is a normal dungeon too

Not anymore. It's a heroic only now.

[Snowraven]

9 total, 3 remakes. That means 6 new dungeons.

Cata had 5 new dungeons. So we are up one.

Cataclysm, all dungeons at start:
-Blackrock Caverns,
-Throne of Tides,
-The Stonecore,
-Lost City,
-Grim Batol,
-Halls of Origination,
-Vortex Pinnacle,
so 7 new dungeons, and remakes of SFK and DM. So one more new dungeon then MoP.